Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Act of God


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:12 AM

Why do people call things like catastrophic weather "acts of God", (even insurance policies use that terminology, I believe), while they go around asking for prayers for the people effected?  Isn't that kind of like asking to pray for help to the responsible party, (ask the arsonist to help you after he set your house on fire, i.e, who "the act was of".....in these cases - God), yet ask God to help the people he unleashed the disaster on if it is an "act of God"?  This makes absolutely no sense.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#2    Arbitran

Arbitran

    Post-Singularitan Hyperturing Synthetic Intelligence

  • Member
  • 2,767 posts
  • Joined:13 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:43 AM

It is indeed an absurd concept. I'm frankly glad that there is absolutely no reason to think that a god exist; if they're responsible for natural disasters and other catastrophes, I would be terrified to inhabit the same universe with such a capricious and callous being.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#3    shrooma

shrooma

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,985 posts
  • Joined:14 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds, UK.

  • Live.
    Sin.
    Die.

Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:58 AM

there was a movie about this a while back, 'the man who sued god', starring billy connelly.
he had a small fishing boat that sank during a storm. his insurance company refused to pay out, citing 'an act of god', so he decided to sue the church instead!
well worth watching, if only for the questions it raises.
(and it's got billy connelly in!)
:-)

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#4    Arbitran

Arbitran

    Post-Singularitan Hyperturing Synthetic Intelligence

  • Member
  • 2,767 posts
  • Joined:13 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:03 AM

View Postshrooma, on 21 May 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

there was a movie about this a while back, 'the man who sued god', starring billy connelly.
he had a small fishing boat that sank during a storm. his insurance company refused to pay out, citing 'an act of god', so he decided to sue the church instead!
well worth watching, if only for the questions it raises.
(and it's got billy connelly in!)
:-)

Rather reminds me of the film God on Trial, in which imprisoned Jews at Auschwitz attempt to effectively sue God for a breach of contract, in that he made a pact with the people of Israel that he would protect them, ergo, allowing the Holocaust is taken as a breach of contract. Amusing, and interesting in its point; even more interesting is that I'm given to understand that some Jews have actually adopted a rather maltheistic view because of it: a view that, though a god may exist, it is malevolent or indifferent towards humanity. A rather grotesque thought, but intriguing all the same.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#5    shrooma

shrooma

    Government Agent

  • Banned
  • 3,985 posts
  • Joined:14 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds, UK.

  • Live.
    Sin.
    Die.

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:21 AM

View PostArbitran, on 21 May 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

I'm given to understand that some Jews have actually adopted a rather maltheistic view because of it: a view that, though a god may exist, it is malevolent or indifferent towards humanity.
.
i've seen the religious try and use this argument as the basis of free-will in the face of the argument that 'everything's done according to god's plan', that his indifference to suffering is just his way of letting us 'get on with it'.

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#6    redhen

redhen

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,825 posts
  • Joined:14 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Samsara

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:39 AM

View PostChloeB, on 21 May 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Why do people call things like catastrophic weather "acts of God", (even insurance policies use that terminology, I believe), while they go around asking for prayers for the people effected?

That's just one school of thought. There are other theologians who claim that it's malevolent daemons pushing around tectonic plates that causes earthquakes. I'm not talking about fundamentalist preachers, but serious, reputable academic philosophers and theologians. It's amazing what people are capable of believing, and teaching.


#7    Mnemonix

Mnemonix

    Alien Abducter

  • Closed
  • 4,720 posts
  • Joined:25 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:43 AM

View PostChloeB, on 21 May 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

This makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe it does, and we just don't know how. Doesn't God work in mysterious ways, after all?

What we need is God Himself posting on the forums to give us some answers :tu:

View Postredhen, on 21 May 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

That's just one school of thought. There are other theologians who claim that it's malevolent daemons pushing around tectonic plates that causes earthquakes. I'm not talking about fundamentalist preachers, but serious, reputable academic philosophers and theologians. It's amazing what people are capable of believing, and teaching.

Really?

I used to think natural disasters were just the result of the way God designed nature.

But that's just my opinion.

God knows everything and is in control over everything that exists, isn't that the case?

Edited by Mnemonix, 21 May 2013 - 03:45 AM.


#8    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:06 AM

View Postshrooma, on 21 May 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

there was a movie about this a while back, 'the man who sued god', starring billy connelly.
he had a small fishing boat that sank during a storm. his insurance company refused to pay out, citing 'an act of god', so he decided to sue the church instead!
well worth watching, if only for the questions it raises.
(and it's got billy connelly in!)
:-)

I'm glad you brought that up, someone told me about that movie once, in fact, I think on this forum and I looked up a clip from it on youtube and I wanted to see it and forgot to look for it later.  You reminded me!!  It looked really funny and I love Billy Connelly.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#9    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:19 AM

View PostArbitran, on 21 May 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Rather reminds me of the film God on Trial, in which imprisoned Jews at Auschwitz attempt to effectively sue God for a breach of contract, in that he made a pact with the people of Israel that he would protect them, ergo, allowing the Holocaust is taken as a breach of contract. Amusing, and interesting in its point; even more interesting is that I'm given to understand that some Jews have actually adopted a rather maltheistic view because of it: a view that, though a god may exist, it is malevolent or indifferent towards humanity. A rather grotesque thought, but intriguing all the same.

But it makes sense though, wasn't there a covenant with God and weren't they the chosen ones, the Holocaust would seem like a deal-breaker.  But what you said in your earlier post about being glad you didn't believe God exists and how some Jews started to view God as malevolent, to me, if you believe there is a God above that controls everything and is as the bible describes, to me, it would be nearly impossible to not see the negative side if these tragedies and horrors are orchestrated by this God's hand or in the very least allowed to happen to God's children who believe he protects them, yet he allows this to them.  Weather is to me especially hard to explain, the holocaust they'll just blame on an evil man, Hitler, and free will, but the weather, well that's God's territory and "God's acts" like flooding the world.  No evil man or evil mankind to blame for that.  And that people accept that these are acts of God, their God, and then run into the lap of that very same party that has hurt them and plea for protection and assistance is symptomatic of what you'd see in Stockholm syndrome - trauma bonding.

Edited by ChloeB, 21 May 2013 - 04:22 AM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#10    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:26 AM

View PostMnemonix, on 21 May 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

Maybe it does, and we just don't know how. Doesn't God work in mysterious ways, after all?

I've been this annoying and asking questions since I was a little kid, and this is what I was always told, he works in mysterious ways.  That's just what people say when they know there is no answer or they can't come up with one.  It also says, you'll just buy into anything if you believe God wants it, which can be dangerous.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#11    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:29 AM

View Postredhen, on 21 May 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

That's just one school of thought. There are other theologians who claim that it's malevolent daemons pushing around tectonic plates that causes earthquakes. I'm not talking about fundamentalist preachers, but serious, reputable academic philosophers and theologians. It's amazing what people are capable of believing, and teaching.

Wow, but that's what demons and devils are for - for things that you don't to be blamed on God and that you can't hold humans responsible for, so enter demons, Satan, and such.

Edited by ChloeB, 21 May 2013 - 04:44 AM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#12    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:33 AM

View PostMnemonix, on 21 May 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

God knows everything and is in control over everything that exists, isn't that the case?

If he's in control over everything that exists, if we are just pawns in his game of chess, wouldn't he be responsible for everything then, the good and the bad?  People want to sing praise and give credit, gratitude, and thanks for the good things, but are very uncomfortable and try very hard to separate God from the bad things.  Do control and responsibility/accountablility go hand in hand?

Edited by ChloeB, 21 May 2013 - 04:45 AM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#13    Mnemonix

Mnemonix

    Alien Abducter

  • Closed
  • 4,720 posts
  • Joined:25 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:47 AM

View PostChloeB, on 21 May 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Do control and responsibility/accountablility go hand in hand?

You could say that, but I'm as clueless as you are.

I have the same questions, so you'd best wait for some religious expert can answer your questions.

Just giving out some pointers.


#14    CS Lewis

CS Lewis

    Alien Embryo

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 84 posts
  • Joined:18 May 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexico City

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

The Urantia Papers said:

(48.2) 3:2.10 Thus it is that your detached, sectional, finite, gross, and highly materialistic viewpoint and the
limitations inherent in the nature of your being constitute such a handicap that you are unable to see,
comprehend, or know the wisdom and kindness of many of the divine acts which to you seem fraught with
such crushing cruelty, and which seem to be characterized by such utter indifference to the comfort and
welfare, to the planetary happiness and personal prosperity, of your fellow creatures. It is because of the
limits of human vision, it is because of your circumscribed understanding and finite comprehension, that
you misunderstand the motives, and pervert the purposes, of God. But many things occur on the
evolutionary worlds which are not the personal doings of the Universal Father.



#15    Arbitran

Arbitran

    Post-Singularitan Hyperturing Synthetic Intelligence

  • Member
  • 2,767 posts
  • Joined:13 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:43 AM

View Postredhen, on 21 May 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

There are other theologians who claim that it's malevolent daemons pushing around tectonic plates that causes earthquakes. I'm not talking about fundamentalist preachers, but serious, reputable academic philosophers and theologians.

The word 'theologian', to me, might as well be interchangeable with 'magicologist', or 'pataphysicist'. They can be as "reputable" as they like, but they've earned no reputation from me apart from general charlatanism and very vivid imagination.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users