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Rule Britannia for global crimes


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#31    Arbenol

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:22 PM

View Postthe L, on 22 May 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

Because thats not how they teach you in schools.
British empire was great for many things. But also was awful for many others thing.
Because of British far east see us (Europe) as barbarians imperialists.
What British done in todays South Africa can be compared with regime such as Pol Pot, Hitler and similar. Imho.

Britain, quite rightly, gets the bulk of the criticism for it's past imperialism. But it's a very blinkered take on history to not acknowledge that most of Europe treated the world as a massive lolly scramble. If you got there first - it was yours. (Except in New Zealand, because Maori scared the Dutch off - although they did get to name it). Spain's record in S. America isn't so great. The Dutch behaved appallingly in Indonesia. The Rwandan massacres of recent history were a direct result of Belgium's behaviour. I bet we could do this all day. Where do you draw the line?


#32    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:24 PM

Setton,

imho British need to pay compesation to some countries. Yes why wouldnt I been on concentration camps in Africa. British put Dutch/Boer woman and kids into camps.
So is life of Gypsy, Jew worth more then life of a Boer?
Plus ruined their country. It was one of biggest invasion by British.

And my second choice would be China if we can go that far into history for compesation. British were then drug cartel.During Opium wars.

Edited by the L, 22 May 2013 - 10:29 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#33    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 22 May 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Britain, quite rightly, gets the bulk of the criticism for it's past imperialism. But it's a very blinkered take on history to not acknowledge that most of Europe treated the world as a massive lolly scramble. If you got there first - it was yours. (Except in New Zealand, because Maori scared the Dutch off - although they did get to name it). Spain's record in S. America isn't so great. The Dutch behaved appallingly in Indonesia. The Rwandan massacres of recent history were a direct result of Belgium's behaviour. I bet we could do this all day. Where do you draw the line?

No doubt. I sign everything you wrote. But about Boer wars things are little different. And with China. Thats why I used them in the first place.
Line was that British attacked new state own by Dutchs and made concentration camps.
Line was there that British force Chinese to buy Opium.
I will not go into slavery and colonialsim at all.

Edited by the L, 22 May 2013 - 10:31 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#34    keithisco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:26 PM

View Postthe L, on 22 May 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

keithisco, for now, I think that British concentration camps in south Africa and forcing Chinese to buy Opium is more then enough to realize that question about compesation is valid one.

I understand now. You are referring to the Boer War (somewhat before my time) when wholly inadequate camps were set up to house the women and children from cleared farms. Disease is said to have claimed 25,000 lives and British Public Opinion was outraged such that all camps were closed within a year and survivors returned to their Husbands / Fathers.

These Concentration Camps have no corollary with those of Nazi Germany during the 2nd World War.

Neither were the Chinese "forced" to buy Opium

Edited by keithisco, 22 May 2013 - 10:37 PM.


#35    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:34 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 22 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

I understand now. You are referring to the Boer War (somewhat before my time) when wholly inadequate camps were set up to house the women and children from cleared farms. Disease is said to have claimed 25,000 lives and British Public Opinion was outraged such that all camps were closed within a year and survivors returned to their Husbands / Fathers.

And I called it propaganda.
Because they couldnt defeat Boers they made conc.camps. Then only when Boers surrender conc.camps were closed. :tu:

Edited by the L, 22 May 2013 - 10:34 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#36    FLOMBIE

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:40 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 22 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

I understand now. You are referring to the Boer War (somewhat before my time) when wholly inadequate camps were set up to house the women and children from cleared farms. Disease is said to have claimed 25,000 lives and British Public Opinion was outraged such that all camps were closed within a year and survivors returned to their Husbands / Fathers.

These Concentration Camps have no corollary with those of Nazi Germany during the 2nd World War.

Neither were the Chinese "forced" to buy Opium
That's why those should better be called "death camps". The word concentration camp is a British invention form the second Boer war.

You still had a few up and running later one, like this one:
Jan Kempdorp
Sadly, the English wikipeda page does not have much info at all.


#37    keithisco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:43 PM

View Postthe L, on 22 May 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

And I called it propaganda.
Because they couldnt defeat Boers they made conc.camps. Then only when Boers surrender conc.camps were closed. :tu:
NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,


#38    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:43 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 22 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:


These Concentration Camps have no corollary with those of Nazi Germany during the 2nd World War.

Neither were the Chinese "forced" to buy Opium

I promise I will respond on this. Now I must go to bed.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#39    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:46 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 22 May 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,

I wonder would you survive in jail on low food and none food where hygene is zero.
One could conclude that British spare bullets.

Allow me that I response you later.

Edited by the L, 22 May 2013 - 10:47 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#40    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:48 PM

Just look this "British hotel"

Posted Image

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#41    keithisco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:49 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 22 May 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

That's why those should better be called "death camps". The word concentration camp is a British invention form the second Boer war.

You still had a few up and running later one, like this one:
Jan Kempdorp
Sadly, the English wikipeda page does not have much info at all.

I think it would be more accurate to call it an Internment Camp as the prisoners were released after the war finished.


#42    Setton

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:49 PM

View Postthe L, on 22 May 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Setton,

imho British need to pay compesation to some countries. Yes why wouldnt I been on concentration camps in Africa. British put Dutch/Boer woman and kids into camps.
So is life of Gypsy, Jew worth more then life of a Boer?

No but, as has been pointed out, they weren't concentration camps by the modern definition.

Quote

Plus ruined their country. It was one of biggest invasion by British.

So back to my earlier point, are all those other countries to pay compensation too? The Roman invasion ended an entire culture and way of life here. Should we bill modern Rome for it?

Quote

And my second choice would be China if we can go that far into history for compesation. British were then drug cartel.During Opium wars.

And I assume China will be paying out to all the countries they've invaded?

Alternatively, we all just drop it and, if it makes you feel better, consider the millions we give in international aid our 'compensation'.

Now, I'm off to bed too so feel free to answer tomorrow.

Just one more thing, that's a very selective choice of picture. The girl in the picture contracted typhoid (not uncommon for anyone at that point, the British included). Once the British realised she was not recovering, she was transferred to a hospital. Blame the nurses at the hospital for her death if you must but don't try to pin a common disease on a nation.

FYI here's another picture from a concentration camp. Yep, they look just terrible:

Posted Image

Edited by Setton, 22 May 2013 - 10:56 PM.

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#43    FLOMBIE

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:50 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 22 May 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,
Do you have a link on that? I can only find sources that point out a different outcome: Emily Hobhouse visited one of the camps, and through her intervention the conditions inside the camps were improved, but the inmates were not released until the war was over.

View Postkeithisco, on 22 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

I think it would be more accurate to call it an Internment Camp as the prisoners were released after the war finished.
After all they were called concentration camps.


#44    shrooma

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:11 AM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 22 May 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

positively no axe to grind there then.

p.s. read the comments below the 'piece' it's a hoot. Presumably the comments section is only open to Iran party members. :w00t:
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strangely enough INOT, I took your advice, then, after reading the comments, decided to post one.
I said how odd that all the comments seemed to have been written in the same style, as if they'd all been written by the same 2-3 guys.
and d'you know what?
it stayed on there for a full eight minutes before it was removed.....
bet my email inbox is flooded with s**te from iranian nutters tomorrow.

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#45    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:42 AM

View Postthe L, on 22 May 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

And how many times did British attacked others? lets say from 1800...

How many times has America attacked others?

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