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why did satan get kicked out of heaven


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#646    Ellapennella

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

View PostEtu Malku, on 03 July 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Well Reann, at this point I will have to call you a liar, because there is nothing in the Book of the Law about child sacrifice. When Crowley speaks of sacrificing a male child, his diaries and other writings indicate that he thereby obfuscates the actual practice. Crowley did this by diversion of the act of sexual intercourse and other sexual actions. He considered contraception as human sacrifice. There is no indication in any of his writings that he ever performed infanticide. In fact, Crowley was even against abortion.
"It is the sacrifice of oneself spiritually. And the intelligence and innocence of that male child are the perfect understanding of the Magician, his one aim, without lust of result. And male he must be, because what he sacrifices is not the material blood, but his creative power."


And how many followers of Thelema do you know? Probably none, though I know quite a few and none of them commit any crimes or engage in dubious affairs. This is just plain slander and lies from you.
You are entitled to your understanding of good & evil, but be it known that both are subjective and there are not 'set-in-stone' rules to which they apply.

I prefer someone who actually lived as to a myth.

Show us all where these terrible things are that Aleister Crowley allegedly did! You can't because there aren't any. If anything he was not the best father to his children and an absent husband to his wives.
really, it's all there black and white, who's the liar? me or you? and had you read my conversation with Marc , you would maybe  explain a bit more ,than just calling me names ... but maybe the issues lies in that  I'm not "easily" swayed by Crowley as you may be...I don't think you can explain it any different from what it says.
It's there in a top first sentence  in one of  my reply's  to Marc...please do explain what you think Crowley was referring to, and no need for you to wonder about who I know ....


#647    Etu Malku

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:42 PM

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

really, it's all there black and white, who's the liar? me or you? and had you read my conversation with Marc , you would maybe  explain a bit more ,than just calling me names ... but maybe the issues lies in that  I'm not "easily" swayed by Crowley as you may be...I don't think you can explain it any different from what it says.
It's there in a top first sentence  in one of  my reply's  to Marc...please do explain what you think Crowley was referring to, and no need for you to wonder about who I know ....
I have explained it, don't you read the thread? I've explained it over & over again, as well as asked you to show us where Crowley committed any crimes . . . of which you haven't brought one iota of evidence, you just keep spattering lies and misinformation as usual.

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#648    Jor-el

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:28 PM

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Yeah but , I see things as so ...I may be wrong but , a lot of what turns me off from the biblical concept of God moving on behalf of a certain people seems to have always felt political to me , not really like it came from a creator , but that people have manipulated others into thinking they  have had  the ability  to control nature itself, such as crops ect.
I truly do not support Zionism and that's where all this seems to have gone. There's way to many wars and there's way too many suffering in the world and so in my own heart soul and mind , i don't really take everything literal in the bible. I see Jacob as one who may be considered as one who knew  majick by a way of manipulating others, everything he did was of manipulation that i read of him....Maybe I'm wrong about that...

Zionism is a political ideology... that said, why should we refuse to give credit where it is due... the Jewish people are still a part of Gods plans... and will continue to be so.

Edited by Jor-el, 03 July 2013 - 09:28 PM.

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#649    markprice

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Mark
Where Crowley had said :" A white male child of perfect innocence and intelligence makes the perfect victim"

That could mean many things, but you have to realize Crowley was a sensationalist who fed the media whatever he felt like at the time. Interesting in the video you posted there is the quote "I have sacrificed babies!" or something like that from Bruce Dickenson's movie Crowley which is well worth checking out.

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

There's a place in the bible , I think maybe in the book of revelations, i don't know where exactly it is but, that it says:  God either wants you on fire for him ,or, cold towards him ,but that , God doesn't want you lukewarm towards him, that God would spew you from his mouth if you were just in-between...That always reminded me of gnostic teachings...

Here you seem to be on the same page as Crowley because that's what he was all about (the movie makes that clear).

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

If I am going to praise anyone of the two , I will praise Yeshua for the teachings of Christ within, that's the path I choose....And even when I consider alchemy , not the green lion aspect of it ,where as manipulation of the elements are needed to attempt to base metal into gold ,but the deeper spiritual alchemical teachings , that we are of the very same atom as all life is of, and that the base metal is actually another way of seeing ourselves , and that we  are to evolve and  transform ourselves from within into that purest of  gold...funny how the streets of heaven are paved with gold, and the kingdom of heaven is found within, right? So,  I suppose i desire not a darkened forest , but that  i desire to follow that golden road to that shining state of being...

Crowley had no problem with Jesus who he considered to be a gentle soul abused by religion.

The darkened forest is where the witch lives so be sure to stay on the yellow brick road, Dorothy. Alchemy is about transforming the dark matter not avoiding it.

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

... and considering the individual was one that would actually place himself in the darkest experiences he could no matter what, and what for, what for? what was his goal , what drove him to do those things?..and I do believe that he has done so , many times...

Alchemy. And children end up in the dark, then who made that sacrifice if the parents were clueless?: God. The only answer I can think of is a lot is learned in the dark.

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

I always feel that there are two sorts of people in the world , good and bad...but I can never accept the bad as the way some students or followers of gnostic are willing to accept it ...I think evilness is like a sickness, and it needs to not be passed off as just human nature...I know occult practitioners let go of that thought , but I can't let go of the concept of right and wrong, because there is wrong and there is right....

I think of evil as a force. Sickness a result. We all have to draw the line somewhere; that is the ultimate decision based on what you just cannot accept.

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Anyway , i came back real fast to add something and i don't think i can explain my thoughts of what i just had thought of too well just yet...It's fresh in my mind and I wanted to ask if anyone has had the same idea before...
I wonder a lot about a lot of things , as everyone else does too, right? we all wonder about things ..Has anyone ever thought that the polarities of opposites such as lets just call it good and bad are there for us , not that it's there because a force needs it to be so? like,  that force is and always will be but that like they are tools for our growth, and to be  known to the more pure form of that spirit that is within the universe? like if all things have spirit right, the one spirit of all is connected with all , but it can not be one in oneness if it is of two separate forces , it would not be able to be...like that saying a house divided can not stand ....
Anyway , i want to look into that a little more. I just don't think that a creator is both good and bad...I think that the natural laws of the universe are set in it's d.n.a of the universe , and is not bias to what we know as judgment, it just gives to what our will and desire is, but I think that is just a piece of the system of the home the universe , i think there's levels more above the laws of attraction and such...
It's  like some say : what goes around comes around , but we are always doing it to ourselves , in that i see our part in creation.. Anyway ,hopefully I can construct   a more in depth meaning of what i am thinking of ....

You're such an occultist.

God: The ALL: "Oneness" etc. is the first principal (I'm not an occultist so correct me if I'm wrong). The first principal implies a second and so forth all taking place within 1 because that would be the source of the others. How can the opposite exist in that? It can't so a space had to be created for it. Then you have heaven and hell. Creation, Heaven and Hell = 3. How can that trinity exist in 1? [The bible explains 3 in 1 to a certain extent but only as God.]  The other exists because it was created as extreme opposite, and nature mimics this reality in a harmonious way where outside of creation there is direct conflict--war in heaven, the lake of fire etc. So there is a dimensional division just like if you create another there is then a necessary division. It's easy to get stuck there so there is also a need for transcendence--back to One, unless, as you say, the other rout is taken which would ultimately lead to nothing or infinity, IMO. Why don't all people go that rout?because they have a choice; just because Crowley went that way does not mean he actually did all the bad things you imagine he did along the way even if what you consider bad he might see as natural for him. I judge him by the book of the law btw and that was no angel he was having a conversation with, but then his religion is based on conversation with each person's holy guardian angel (makes him a liar but it could be true for someone else)

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#650    danielost

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:14 AM

View PostJor-el, on 03 July 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:



Zionism is a political ideology... that said, why should we refuse to give credit where it is due... the Jewish people are still a part of Gods plans... and will continue to be so.

This is true but they have already delivered the greatest blessing we can have.  Eternal life thanks to a jew named christ, now they need to accept for themselves.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#651    markprice

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:30 AM

View PostJor-el, on 03 July 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Zionism is a political ideology... that said, why should we refuse to give credit where it is due... the Jewish people are still a part of Gods plans... and will continue to be so.

The Italian, African, Aborigine, Asian, Indian, Tibetan, Polish, Icelandic, Swedish, religious and non-religious etc.: all part of God's plans and will continue to be so.

This is getting shilly - Math

#652    Etu Malku

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:43 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 04 July 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

The Italian, African, Aborigine, Asian, Indian, Tibetan, Polish, Icelandic, Swedish, religious and non-religious etc.: all part of God's plans and will continue to be so.
And what plan would that be?

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#653    Labobio

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:14 PM

its all a bunch of garbage...all built for control..if you are good you are rewarded,,if you are bad you are punished,,,good luck with that..


#654    Jor-el

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:31 PM

View Postdanielost, on 04 July 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

This is true but they have already delivered the greatest blessing we can have.  Eternal life thanks to a jew named christ, now they need to accept for themselves.


And contrary to what most people believe, the time of the Jews will come again...

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#655    Jor-el

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:33 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 04 July 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

The Italian, African, Aborigine, Asian, Indian, Tibetan, Polish, Icelandic, Swedish, religious and non-religious etc.: all part of God's plans and will continue to be so.

Oh did God choose them now to give light to the world and bring forth the Messiah?.. a little late for that...

Gods plans for mankind are what you are referring to Gods plans for his children is something else.

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#656    Jor-el

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

View PostLabobio, on 04 July 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

its all a bunch of garbage...all built for control..if you are good you are rewarded,,if you are bad you are punished,,,good luck with that..

Funny but that law exists in a better well known form, every actions has an equal and opposite reaction, in other words cause and effect... I figure anybody would know that this is elementary humanism...

Edited by Jor-el, 04 July 2013 - 06:35 PM.

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-C. S. Lewis


#657    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:48 PM

View PostReann, on 03 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:


There's a place in the bible , I think maybe in the book of revelations, i don't know where exactly it is but, that it says:  God either wants you on fire for him ,or, cold towards him ,but that , God doesn't want you lukewarm towards him, that God would spew you from his mouth if you were just in-between...
"'I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.'" Revelation 3:15-16

"For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened." Romans 1:21

"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7


#658    Etu Malku

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:27 PM

Definitely don't get on the bad side of this god . . . Are you on the Lord's side? Are you willing to kill your family, friends, and neighbors for God?

"Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour ... and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men." Exodus 32:26-28

So those on God's side went out and killed 3000 of their friends, neighbors, and family members.

But God still wasn't satisfied. When he first found out about the golden calf and the naked dancing he wanted to kill everyone, but Moses talked him out of it. Imagine that. Numbers 31:14-18

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#659    LostSouls7

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:41 AM

The old testament is full of Killing in the name of God.

Also the Crusades, Spanish inqisition were all in the name of God.

They burned poor witches at the Stake in name of God.

The wars we see today are also in the name of religion.

I think religion has caused lots of blood spilled over time.

It's not very nice to say the least.

People waste their life defending a BELIEF...

I believe magical fairies live in my garden.
But i won't tell you to join me or die in what I believe...
it's only for me. I will not try to convert you.

Peace be with you..
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#660    Labobio

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:41 AM

who made who?





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