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Pope Francis: Atheists can also go to heaven!


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#1    Spiral staircase

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:04 AM

Pope Francis again impresses. For being the head of a body that slowly changes and has done much harm, even with resistance within, the man keeps coming up with increasingly better ways of looking at things. Will it change the culture? Yes! Because people are ready for change, craving it, just as Kennedy led the change that was ready to be born.

The growing pains of a new hope for the world are here. Call the midwives, get the water. A new baby is about to be born. A star that will shine bright across the world. No matter what path one is on all have a chance at validation. Even if one does not believe in heaven for those who do to accept we will have a chance to be there regardless of path is shining hope.

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Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.
Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

Quote

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

*snip*

Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics


#2    and then

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:19 AM

I am the way, the truth and the life - no man comes to the Father but by me.  Christ said this and left no doubt about who He claimed to be.  One either believes this or they do not.  It is their choice and only their choice.  I am not a Catholic basher but I disagree with their doctrines and would never be a part of their church for that reason.  I respect them for the good they do in the world but THIS is apostasy imo.  It is called ecumenism and since it seems so comfortable to men it is surely destructive.  It is similar to the "christian" churches which worship with Muslims, saying they worship the same god.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#3    Irrelevant

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

I'm a former Jesuit.,

They do indeed worship the same god. Mohamed can trace his origins back to Adam and Eve also.. Doesn't mean I agree with Islam however. (Well parts of it are very beautiful)

None are correct, or the full truth, when The Lord of Second advent is revealed the old world and its half finished doctrines will be forgotten..

These books were written in time when even lightning or static electricity was not understood..why people think there all finished works is beyond me.  If you believe that then Gods done nothing in the last 2000 years, or perhaps he has and is right now, except if you were on the current time line you'd be despised and labeled a heretic by all established rocks...and why some think that God has only worked in such a limited group, race or religion or is only found in one book and one book out of millions of books, billions of people! this is also beyond me..whoever the new guy is who offers this new truth, leads all into the truth, comes on the clouds of heaven, as seen in Luke17  24-25 will suffer much and be rejected in his time..

The coming of the Son of Man

17:22 Then 66  he said to the disciples, “The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days 67  of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 17:23 Then people 68  will say to you, ‘Look, there he is!’ 69  or ‘Look, here he is!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 70  17:24 For just like the lightning flashes 71  and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. 72  17:25 But first he must 73  suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 17:26 Just 74  as it was 75  in the days of Noah, 76  so too it will be in the days of the Son of Man. 17:27 People 77  were eating, 78  they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage – right up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then 79  the flood came and destroyed them all. 80  17:28 Likewise, just as it was 81  in the days of Lot, people 82  were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building; 17:29 but on the day Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 83  17:30 It will be the same on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 17

Edited by Irrelevant, 24 May 2013 - 09:44 AM.


#4    Irrelevant

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:54 AM

Did something different here,
sick of being labeled a heretic for simply following the traditions of Jesus , in quoting the first line, thinking anybody who's awake will know the scripture by just mentioning the first line, now I shall quote full passages so there's no confusion.

Also will point out that in other versions its translated "from EAST to WEST" instead of " from one side to the other" or " from one part under heaven to the other part under heaven" these aspects will change according to your version..


#5    Spiral staircase

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

Not  every flower blooms at once

Right from the start
they said it would take years
for change to arrive
and we've already had many
in some minds things stay the same
(it pains them to change)

All through the war
we helped those they labeled enemy
at a personal cost some of us died
but we saved many lives
now that it's over we are remembered
(sanctified and glorified)

All flags painted white
we once again live with each other
neighbors stayed in my secret shelter
we now rebuild their homes together
for us there was no war in our hearts ever
(gardens always with lavender)

Welcome to our heart's secret shelter
yours has one too, is there room for others?
it's safe above the coast is clear
did your basement flood? help is near
there was no need to fight, we surrender
(remember salvation was first and forever)


#6    Irrelevant

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:39 AM

The heralding Angels are starting to sing!


#7    lightly

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:11 AM

I like this pope.       ..  for those who believe  in GOD   ,  but  believe people worship  Different Gods .....    How many Gods created the Heavens and the Earth ??¿¿?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#8    Spiral staircase

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:11 AM

Irrelevant, besides inspiring that piece your posts have also reminded me of this poem:

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What is seen is not the Truth
What Is cannot be expressed
Trust comes not without seeing
Nor understanding without words
The wise comprehends with knowledge
To the ignorant it is but a wonder
Some worship the formless God
Some worship His various forms
In what way He is beyond these attributes
Only the Knower knows
That music cannot be written
How can then be the notes
Says Kabir, awareness alone will overcome illusion

—Kabir

Mystic Songs

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 24 May 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#9    Irrelevant

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:07 PM


Much love returned to you Brits!




#10    and then

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

View Postlightly, on 24 May 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

I like this pope.    ..  for those who believe  in GOD   ,  but  believe people worship  Different Gods ..... How many Gods created the Heavens and the Earth ??¿¿?
I actually like the MAN myself.  He is what a pure religious leader ought to be, selfless and humble and always seeking to love and do good.  It is his doctrine I cannot agree with since it goes against the very basis of my faith.  This does not mean I dislike or would try to call down the fire on him or any catholic or Christian who would think they worship the same god as a Muslim.  I simply pray for them and realize they are deluded.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#11    Setton

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

Never thought I'd hear that from a Pope. I've got more respect for him every day.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#12    Irrelevant

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:09 PM

Will there be rebellion in the ranks when he really says what he knows? He has encountered something..


Just curious what the atheists say now they've been told?  Sadly what he didn't say to them that there is Atheists in the spirit world too and heaven has levels, How's that possible? There's many levels and places in heaven, Jesus taught this too just a different way " My Father has many mansions "

I read your other thread, moderate Muslims pray for holocust victims, we have sent our best there but not many have received..it's hard to let go of the anger, they can come straight up but because of the anger they choose to stay, its hard to reason with them (just like it is to many here, how much harder is it when they have been so badly wronged to overcome it!)...when they can forgive they will naturally ascend, prayer can help them, This is why forgiveness is so important, to be a Citizen in heaven your heart must be clear, like a child...children who play together don't care if another's of a different Faith or Race until there taught such things.. If you got anger in your heart let it go! It's natural to have it at times but don't hold it, only hold love, love your Neighbour..

Jesus "There's many things I to wish I could tell you right now, but when the spirit of truth comes he will lead you all into the light" I've mentioned half truths, this line identifies with that,  there was indeed many things Jesus wanted to say but choose not too, knowing that wine would be spilled if pored into  the old wine skins of his generation.

There's many false doctrines on the earth, most of these are really just half truths, I mentioned these have already been defeated, the victory has already happened, but what your seeing is something like at the end of WW2, soldiers still fighting after they have been defeated. The dragon was communism (a false doctrine) its many heads were the countries who took it on, the fall of communism is almost complete! The final battleground for it is North Korea , china will give it away soon, they will have to, already there's a middle class, there society is being changed from within.. The final wars are all ideological, not territorial. In reality as soon as Christians and Islam embrace each other it's basically over, the pope knows this..I told you Islam goes back to the holy family too, Mohamad is a descendant of Esau (twin brother of Jacob /Israel) these two wrestled in the womb even! The reason to tie the ribbons?? The Stealing of his blessing? It was the desire for the Abel one of the two to obtain the blessing of the first born. When these two met later Israel thought his brother wanted to kill him, but on seeing each other they had tears in there eyes! Christians and Muslims you must learn to embrace your brother! Embrace each other!  

We already did our job, under massive persecution, now its your turn! Then we shall all rejoice as one family under the Father in heaven, peace shall reign, God shall dwell with his people, the old world will be forgotten.






#13    Rlyeh

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

I wish I could say I'm happy about religion evolving, but I'm not. These archaic beliefs have served their purpose, the pope is only making intolerant superstition appear more tolerable.

No matter how much you dress up a turd, it is still a turd.


#14    Glenville86

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:38 PM

Funny how 4 of the major religious followings believe in the same God but in different ways.  There is so much diversity in the same religions, that it is hard to understand.  It has been our downfall for centuries.


#15    Philangeli

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 24 May 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Pope Francis again impresses. For being the head of a body that slowly changes and has done much harm, even with resistance within, the man keeps coming up with increasingly better ways of looking at things. Will it change the culture? Yes! Because people are ready for change, craving it, just as Kennedy led the change that was ready to be born.

The growing pains of a new hope for the world are here. Call the midwives, get the water. A new baby is about to be born. A star that will shine bright across the world. No matter what path one is on all have a chance at validation. Even if one does not believe in heaven for those who do to accept we will have a chance to be there regardless of path is shining hope.



Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics
Did the Pope actually say in his homily that atheists can go to Heaven? No. So, the title of this thread is misleading from the start.

If you read his homily, you will see that he is reiterating traditional Catholic doctrine - that Christ died for all and that redemption is open to all mankind through him.

Philangeli aka Cantando


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