Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 2 votes

Pope Francis: Atheists can also go to heaven!


  • Please log in to reply
470 replies to this topic

#31    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,342 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:46 AM

The pope is nothing more than a cartoon figure. What good is a Pope


Someone plaese tell me what good a Pope has done.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#32    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,342 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:56 AM

The next 50 years atheists will do more good for man than any theiest

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#33    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 27,613 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... Gorram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Make it so!

Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 25 May 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

Hi PA.

I can speak for myself only, but I have to say my reason for going to church would never be about ensuring I was saved.  I go to church to praise the presence of God in the world and my life, as well as to praise the teachings of Jesus whose capacity to change with his words and actions the path of others toward good and toward God is to be rightly revered.  Worship is about thankfulness for the message and about finding ways for that message to live and breathe within us as it is the answer to removing separation between man and God.
Hi libstaK :)

I agree in part with your words, I also do not go to church simply to ensure I'm saved.  As the old adage goes, sitting in a church doesn't make you Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car.  I go to church to praise God, worship him, fellowship with people of like-minded belief, encouraging one another and teaching one another.  However, if my church is teaching a watered down message that basically says "be nice to each other", rather than solid theological teaching, then I would not be gaining any benefit from sermons.  I can read a Fortune Cookie in a Chinese Restaurant after dinner and get the same message.  How can I learn about who God is if they're not teaching us who God is in the Bible?


View PostlibstaK, on 25 May 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

I see the opposite. I see the absence of fear of damnation and the increase in the capacity to embrace all humanity as God's loved and redeemed creation as an opportunity to encourage membership to understand the message and live the message as a means of becoming better people - very few people would shirk the assistance of becoming better people and the organisations that will help them do this.  It is the church's primary responsibility to help people grow in their capacity for compassion and love for one another.  It was Jesus' primary law of the new testament and the rock of his teaching to "Love one another as I have loved you".
It's been my experience that the more liberal a church gets, the less it becomes relevant and the less people are interested.  To use my area as an example, the first church I ever went to was a congregation of about 20-25 regular attendees.  It stayed this way for about two years, and then we got a new pastor who put a greater focus on evangelism.  Three years later and our church had 130 regular attendees.  Consider that in the global landscape, Christianity is slowly decreasing in numbers, and we have a church that bucked the trend and increased 500% in three years.  Our congregation is part of the Anglican Church in Australia.  We do not accept gay ministers, female ministers, or any such.  Our values are very traditional.

Compare this to the Church of England in England (of which the Anglican Church is part of).  They ordain female ministers and gay ministers.  I read a statistic that said 1-in-3 ministers in England don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, and half of all ministers believed Jesus was not the only way to heaven.  Over there, church attendance rates are dropping rapidly.  Why?  They've become far more "tolerant", accepting gays and female priests, teaching that there are many paths to God.  The answer as I see it is that they've become bland.  There is absolutely nothing distinctive about it.  The Church of England there is more like a Community Club than a force for social change.  What would possibly inspire a person to join a church that doesn't teach anything you can't read in a Fortune Cookie?  

edit: In terms of ordaining gays and women, so far the two factions have taken an "agree to disagree" stance, but one day in the future I foresee that this will cause a schism.  The Archbishop of Sydney, Peter Jensen, several years ago protested the ordination of women and gays. Every ten years, all the Archbishops convene a synod to meet together to discuss matters within the Church.  Peter Jensen held a protest meeting, and asked for all Archbishops who did not accept female and gay ordination to join with him in a protest synod in Jerusalem (the symbolism of meeting in Jerusalem was not lost on the Church of England).  Of course, the Archbishop in Jerusalem didn't join them and was actually quite angry that his diocese was used as a protest site, he didn't want to be involved in the politics.  In any case, I just thought I'd some detail that may be of interest.


View PostlibstaK, on 25 May 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

But we did and do need Jesus (or God) to be saved - he is the holder of the keys, that's the whole point - he has that power, not anyone here. That is why he came, that is why he gave the teachings that do save us and that is why amongst his last acts on this earth was to set in stone through word and act the redemption of mankind with the crucifixion and the words "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do".

It is what we do - by our acts, that we follow Jesus - the purpose of a sermon should be to teach people to be better people by showing love for others and thank Jesus for the understanding of how that redeems us to do so, it will always be necessary, in fact the most important thing you can teach a child is how to do good and I can't see people turning away from the opportunity to gain that understanding not for themselves and definitely not for their children.
I agree that sermons should teach people to be better people, but that is not the primary reason for a sermon, in my opinion.  I believe the true purpose of a sermon is to teach the Bible.  Sound theological doctrine.  Sometimes that translates into practical application, sometimes it's just a matter of a better understanding of who God is in the Bible.  This is one reason I'm not a fan of a lot of evangelists you see on tv (particularly American ones).  They often don't really preach the Bible.  They use a passage from the Bible, and then springboard into talking about living your life with little further reference to the Bible.  To me, that is not a sermon, it's a self-help seminar.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 25 May 2013 - 06:59 AM.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#34    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 4,892 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:57 AM

Paranoid Android said:

And people wonder why Christianity is declining.  When the head of the largest denomination within Christianity declares you don't actually need to be Christian to be saved then for the average Joe on the street is there any purpose in going to church?  Church stops becoming about God and at best can be seen as a community club where people can meet other people.  Why sit through a sermon when you can get the same flaccid insight from sitting in a coffee shop drinking a latte.

It's quite ironic, but the more liberal and tolerant a church becomes, the less likely people are going to attend, and the more likely members are going to leave.  In my opinion this is what Pope Francis has done, and far from being a toll of future understanding, it may very well serve as the death knell for Catholicism.  I'm glad I'm not Catholic.

That's not to say I don't care about atheists and who goes to what church.  I'll love and respect you regardless of what religious or non-religious position you have.  But I can't and won't accept that you don't need Jesus to be saved.

In a way I think this is a good idea, the official church dissolving into everywhere. Shouldn't every spot on earth be a church? Why have only certain places holy? Everywhere should be holy and all mundane behavior holy. I know this is asking for the impossible for us, but still I like the idea.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
To see reality loose your opinions.

#35    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 27,613 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... Gorram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Make it so!

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:04 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 25 May 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

I agree with you here. He must have been misquoted or taken out of context. I can't believe the leader of the largest Christian organisation on the planet would say you can still get to heaven even if you don't believe in God. Doesn't this contradict doctrine completely?

What I can believe is that he would challenge some Christian's belief that morality comes only from the divine. Good for him, if that's what he meant.
From what I've read, it doesn't appear so.  Taking This link, for example, it appears he said that atheists who do good are going to heaven.  Not sure how this would be for Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc who do good, because if they worship another God they are blaspheming, so maybe it's just atheists who get the free pass if they do good deeds.

But you are right, it is more consistent with biblical teaching to say that morality is not only something found in Christianity.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#36    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 27,613 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... Gorram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Make it so!

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:05 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 25 May 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

The next 50 years atheists will do more good for man than any theiest
And your evidence for this is?  I really think you need to re-examine this statement and ask yourself exactly why you think it is that atheists are going to do more good than any theist will.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#37    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 27,613 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... Gorram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Make it so!

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:10 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 25 May 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

In a way I think this is a good idea, the official church dissolving into everywhere. Shouldn't every spot on earth be a church? Why have only certain places holy? Everywhere should be holy and all mundane behavior holy. I know this is asking for the impossible for us, but still I like the idea.
A "church" is not a place or a building.  Never has been and never will be.  A "church" (Greek ekklesia) refers to a body of believers.  The church is the people.  A building is just a building, it has no special holy significance.  The early Christians met up at people's houses.  In modern society there are church buildings to make it easier for people to find Christian gatherings.  Otherwise you'd have a hard time finding a church meeting at a person's house (especially since many people would be hesitant to let strangers into their house in the modern world).

When I referred to the church in my post, I was referring to the body of believers, and particularly the teachings that they are given by their preacher/pastor.  If the church is receiving flaccid theology, then the church becomes flaccid.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#38    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 4,892 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

Paranoid Android said:

A "church" is not a place or a building.  Never has been and never will be.  A "church" (Greek ekklesia) refers to a body of believers.  The church is the people.  A building is just a building, it has no special holy significance.  The early Christians met up at people's houses.  In modern society there are church buildings to make it easier for people to find Christian gatherings.  Otherwise you'd have a hard time finding a church meeting at a person's house (especially since many people would be hesitant to let strangers into their house in the modern world).

When I referred to the church in my post, I was referring to the body of believers, and particularly the teachings that they are given by their preacher/pastor.  If the church is receiving flaccid theology, then the church becomes flaccid.

Yes, I understand. I was trying to say people seem to have a holy or spiritual state on mind when in a church building, and that it would be a good ideal if they kept this kind of mind after they leave the building and swarm out everywhere.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
To see reality loose your opinions.

#39    Arbenol

Arbenol

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,113 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 25 May 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

From what I've read, it doesn't appear so.  Taking This link, for example, it appears he said that atheists who do good are going to heaven.  Not sure how this would be for Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc who do good, because if they worship another God they are blaspheming, so maybe it's just atheists who get the free pass if they do good deeds.

But you are right, it is more consistent with biblical teaching to say that morality is not only something found in Christianity.

I see what you mean.

He has given himself a good 'get out' clause though. The concept of "doing good" is so vague that he could mean almost anything. From your link:

"all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good"

So, by doing good you will inevitably come to know God and accept Christ. I guess that could mean if you think you do good but still remain an atheist, then you weren't actually doing any good - in God's eyes.

The cynic in me thinks is beginning to sound more and more like good PR. But the optimist in me would like to think more positively. Although, I have to say that this pope is way more interesting than any other I can remember. He doesn't mind shaking the tree - and that's never a bad thing. You never know, he might have dragged the Catholic church into the 20th century by the middle of this one.

Edited by Arbenol68, 25 May 2013 - 08:51 AM.


#40    Setton

Setton

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,557 posts
  • Joined:05 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham, England

Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 25 May 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I see what you mean.

He has given himself a good 'get out' clause though. The concept of "doing good" is so vague that he could mean almost anything. From your link:

"all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good"

So, by doing good you will inevitably come to know God and accept Christ. I guess that could mean if you think you do good but still remain an atheist, then you weren't actually doing any good - in God's eyes.

The cynic in me thinks is beginning to sound more and more like good PR. But the optimist in me would like to think more positively. Although, I have to say that this pope is way more interesting in any other I can remember. He doesn't mind shaking the tree - and that's never a bad thing. You never know, he might have dragged the Catholic church into the 20th century by the middle of this one.

Normally I'd think it was PR but, as you say, it doesn't seem out of character for this Pope.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#41    Star of the Sea

Star of the Sea

    Pienso en ti siempre

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,886 posts
  • Joined:10 Jan 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England

  • 'The light of the world'

Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:58 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 25 May 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

And people wonder why Christianity is declining.  When the head of the largest denomination within Christianity declares you don't actually need to be Christian to be saved then for the average Joe on the street is there any purpose in going to church?  Church stops becoming about God and at best can be seen as a community club where people can meet other people.  Why sit through a sermon when you can get the same flaccid insight from sitting in a coffee shop drinking a latte.

It's quite ironic, but the more liberal and tolerant a church becomes, the less likely people are going to attend, and the more likely members are going to leave.  In my opinion this is what Pope Francis has done, and far from being a toll of future understanding, it may very well serve as the death knell for Catholicism.  I'm glad I'm not Catholic.

That's not to say I don't care about atheists and who goes to what church.  I'll love and respect you regardless of what religious or non-religious position you have.  But I can't and won't accept that you don't need Jesus to be saved.

PA as usual Pope Francis' homily has been taken out of context. The following link explains exactly what the Pope was saying which basically is; 'if we all do good whether you're Christian or not we will meet in a place of peace on earth'.


Was Pope Francis Even Talking About Heaven?

If so, you wouldn't know it from the transcript of what he said.
Let’s back up a bit. Remember, Pope Francis was just talking about the duty to do good:
“And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace.”
So if everyone does good, we have a path toward peace. That’s the goal.
“If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good.
Note the parallelism between the phrases. Pope Francis is talking about a path “toward peace” and wants us to “meet there” by doing our part and doing good so that we build “that culture of encounter” and “meet one another doing good.”
He’s not talking about heaven at all.
He’s talking about earth.

http://jimmyakin.com...good-works.html

Edit to add: It would be prudent to read the whole article that I linked to get a complete understanding of what Pope Francis was actually saying and in what context.

Edited by Star of the Sea, 25 May 2013 - 09:17 AM.

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17

#42    Jessica Christ

Jessica Christ

    jeanne d'arc, je te suivrai

  • Member
  • 3,644 posts
  • Joined:27 May 2011
  • Location:Leaving soon on a mayday so let it rain.

  • It seems so important now but you will get over.
    -AF

Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:29 AM

Pope Francis is not the center drawing humanity towards him but one of many being drawn toward the center which is humanity

Pope Francis is not alone or the director on a stage pulling strings of puppets in charge of a show. He is but one counterpart among many faithful and non-faithful who for the first time in living memory are ready for change and reaching out to each other. Those who would downplay this seem all too willing to maintain the old divisions and that is understandable as not all flowers bloom at once even if the sun shines on us equally.

If the church is losing members it has nothing to do with the church liberalizing but everything to do with the world liberalizing. That the church is liberalizing is no surprise then. It has always lagged behind but eventually caught up to a changing world.

Just as the world began to turn away from tribalism and accepted the rule of law it was then the church stopped sanctioning the stoning of people. So the church changes, it was not church leaders who first came up with the brilliant idea to stop stoning people, most likely the church was resistant to change, but it did. Judaism once the provenance of the Jews alone was resistant to Jesus telling them not to stone others and we can see how even the ethnic limits of the church were shattered allowing all ethnicities into the fold. We will not just stop at accepting all ethnicities but only if they agree with our holy book. It is time to accept all beliefs even if they have another holy book or none at all.

In this regard the church is still changing. It's role has always been to maintain tradition so there will always be lag from the time the world changes to the time the church catches up.

Further, the idea that a church is more right or godly based on how if it keeps growing or how many members it has seems to be rooted in the very "us vs them" narrative that evangelism is rooted in. That is based on the exclusionary belief that not everyone is a child of God unless they accept the belief of whatever evangelist is trying to convince another to join their church. This type of conditional surrender is outmoted. There are no conditions to be accepted as an equal now.

We are all children of God to the one who believes in God, we are all children of humanity to the one who believes in humanity, we can all benefit and learn from science to the one who respects science, and there is no reason why we can't be all three at once.


Pope Francis embraces all faiths and atheists too

Pope Francis extends the new message to those of others faiths as well.

Quote

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis on Saturday offered a silent blessing to an audience of journalists and other news media workers, acknowledging that not all of them were Catholic or believers — a rare gesture for a pontiff and a sign of openness toward other faiths and engagement with the secular world.

“Given that many of you do not belong to the Catholic Church, and others are not believers, I give this blessing from my heart, in silence, to each one of you, respecting the conscience of each one of you, but knowing that each one of you is a child of God,” he said. “May God bless you.”

With Blessing, Pope Shows an Openness to Other Faiths


The Bible itself is clear that other faiths and even atheists can go to heaven

This is nothing new either, accepting those who do not follow the Bible, accepting them as equals, is written in the Bible.

Quote

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

—Romans 2:12-16

It is not just Christians in general, or Christians of a certain sect, or Christians who refuse to liberalize (which is code to stop being intolerant), who can go to heaven. It is not just those who follow the Bible who can go to heaven. But all, even those who do not accept the Bible or those who have never read it who should be treated as equals for we all can go to heaven.


Atheists do not need to believe in heaven for us to embrace them as equals

Atheists might not believe in heaven but we should still treat them with all the respect that we treat those who do believe in heaven. That is the main point. Believing that someone else does not have the "truth" because they are on another path is not just insulting but breeds intolerance in our heart.

Most churches get this now. Those who do not ironically claim to love a humanity they wish to draw lines and separate themselves from.

Some will say what is the use of believing then because all will go to heaven? Why try? Are they really worshiping God because they love It or are they just doing it to play it safe?


No one comes to the Father except through me?

The greatest commandment in the New Testament is to love God. The second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor. (Matthew 22:36-39 and Mark 12: 28-31). "There is no other commandment greater than these"

"I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me," seems clear. God represents divinity and Jesus represents humanity. One cannot accept divinity unless they also accept humanity. One cannot love God if you do not love all of humanity. One cannot go to God except through embracing humanity.

Saying only certain people are saved is not accepting all of humanity. Only those who choose to follow the Bible are bound by it, its rules are for those who freely accept it, no one else is expected or has to accept the Bible or anything written in it. Their own hearts and paths will guide them.

This is just one view, everyone is free to have other views, even counter this one. What is certain is the church is going through change (as it always has) and while some see this as a threat (as some always have) others welcome the ultimate change that truly embraces humanity instead of mistrusting it.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 25 May 2013 - 09:58 AM.


#43    Irrelevant

Irrelevant

    Apparition

  • Closed
  • PipPip
  • 357 posts
  • Joined:24 Apr 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:07 AM

Until the end of the world, or age...famous words from the bible.

Now let's remember that the old world will be forgotten...so is that till the old sinful world passes away, I would Summarise it does apply to the old sinful world only, since after that people will be true sons and daughters of God instead of reborn adopted children... Perhaps the pope has encountered something, some teaching, a teaching or "work" that is outside of his group, as in his reference to Mathew points out, Perhaps the flood that washes away everything is now lapping at the gates of the Vatican.

It was said  by the last pope Benidict  on his retirement  " it was like God wasn't listening" a intesting contrast to "the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light".  The Sun being symbolised by God and moon (the Christian church's) that reflect that light onto the darkness of the fallen world.

This is earth shattering news by Pope Francis  for Catholics and all Christians alike, that others who don't  believe in Jesus or God can go to Heaven!

This is where it gets a little strong for the reader...but how can it not?
How many were watchful for The Lord Of The Second Advent as asked by Jesus to be?  
Perhaps he came like a thief in the night, perhaps he has been and gone!

And now the world will see him coming on the clouds of Heaven, the clouds need to be explained then, when the sun (symbol of God) heats the sea (symbol of fallen man) it forms clouds (purified water/purified man) , these clouds are "the 144,000 who have chosen to wash themselves " as seen by the revelation by John.  The book that the angel gave him in revelation" tasted sweet as honey in the mouth but turns bitter in the stomach" this is that truth, the full truth, the book the Vatican has and many other religions that like a flood is changing all before it!

I'm not going to tell you who he is, i know some of you know, or where to look, only going to draw your attention to the original post I made and the line " as lightning shines From The EAST to the west so The Son Of Man (Lord Of The Second Advent) will be In HIs Day but first HE (notice Jesus says "HE" not "I" ) will suffer much and Be REJECTED".   If he was coming on literal clouds flying around the world how is it possible he would be rejected? Unfortunately every teacher you the reader has ever had , has probably taught you to watch for signs? Except the bible tells you "The kingdom of Heaven does NOT come with signs to be observed"

These things happening in the Vatican may scare some,(I'm a former Jesuite too) but don't be afraid! Everything is being forfiled!! You will see him coming on the clouds of heaven!  


Unfortunately these are my final words to you.
With Love
Adue. In TP name.



#44    Star of the Sea

Star of the Sea

    Pienso en ti siempre

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,886 posts
  • Joined:10 Jan 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England

  • 'The light of the world'

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

"Most churches get this now. Those who do not ironically claim to love a humanity they wish to draw lines and separate themselves from"

The Catholic Church 'got it' well before Pope Francis. Nothing new in your post LBA. From the Catholic Catechism:

CCC843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all good and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

Edited by Star of the Sea, 25 May 2013 - 10:34 AM.

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17

#45    Star of the Sea

Star of the Sea

    Pienso en ti siempre

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,886 posts
  • Joined:10 Jan 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England

  • 'The light of the world'

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

View PostIrrelevant, on 25 May 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Until the end of the world, or age...famous words from the bible.

Now let's remember that the old world will be forgotten...so is that till the old sinful world passes away, I would Summarise it does apply to the old sinful world only, since after that people will be true sons and daughters of God instead of reborn adopted children... Perhaps the pope has encountered something, some teaching, a teaching or "work" that is outside of his group, as in his reference to Mathew points out, Perhaps the flood that washes away everything is now lapping at the gates of the Vatican.

It was said  by the last pope Benidict  on his retirement  " it was like God wasn't listening" a intesting contrast to "the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light".  The Sun being symbolised by God and moon (the Christian church's) that reflect that light onto the darkness of the fallen world.

This is earth shattering news by Pope Francis  for Catholics and all Christians alike, that others who don't  believe in Jesus or God can go to Heaven!

This is where it gets a little strong for the reader...but how can it not?
How many were watchful for The Lord Of The Second Advent as asked by Jesus to be?  
Perhaps he came like a thief in the night, perhaps he has been and gone!

And now the world will see him coming on the clouds of Heaven, the clouds need to be explained then, when the sun (symbol of God) heats the sea (symbol of fallen man) it forms clouds (purified water/purified man) , these clouds are "the 144,000 who have chosen to wash themselves " as seen by the revelation by John.  The book that the angel gave him in revelation" tasted sweet as honey in the mouth but turns bitter in the stomach" this is that truth, the full truth, the book the Vatican has and many other religions that like a flood is changing all before it!

I'm not going to tell you who he is, i know some of you know, or where to look, only going to draw your attention to the original post I made and the line " as lightning shines From The EAST to the west so The Son Of Man (Lord Of The Second Advent) will be In HIs Day but first HE (notice Jesus says "HE" not "I" ) will suffer much and Be REJECTED".   If he was coming on literal clouds flying around the world how is it possible he would be rejected? Unfortunately every teacher you the reader has ever had , has probably taught you to watch for signs? Except the bible tells you "The kingdom of Heaven does NOT come with signs to be observed"

These things happening in the Vatican may scare some,(I'm a former Jesuite too) but don't be afraid! Everything is being forfiled!! You will see him coming on the clouds of heaven!  


Unfortunately these are my final words to you.
With Love
Adue. In TP name.

You didn't read my link to the real meaning to what Pope Francis meant.

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users