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What is trinity ?


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#16    Rlyeh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 May 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I've never understoond all the trouble people have over the Trinity.  To me it got to be the most sensible, reasonable thing in Christianity, although I will admit that's not saying much
I find the idea of Jesus being his own father a bit silly.


#17    shrooma

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:09 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 26 May 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

I find the idea of Jesus being his own father a bit silly.
.
well, you know what they say rlyeh, 'the family that lays together, stays together'.....
;-)

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#18    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:11 PM

What I mean is that it is sensible that if there exist three omniscient coeternal beings that they would be indistinguishable from just one such being.  Given that premise and a decision to divide the labor of saving mankind into different tasks, it is sensible enough that this is how they would proceed.  Of course how it comes to be that a god sacrificing himself somehow saves mankind is not so sensible.

And just think, they also got a "Mother of God" out of the procedure.


#19    Purplos

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:39 PM

I always kinda thought of it like water.

Ice, liquid water and steam are all the same thing, they just take different forms.

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#20    AlnilamPhiSiriusly

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:50 PM

THE PROGRAM NOTES STATE AS FOLLOWS:

'....The Day After Trinity (a.k.a. The Day After Trinity: J. Robert Oppenheimer and the Atomic Bomb) is a 1980 documentary film directed and produced by Jon H. Else in association with KTEH public television in San Jose, California. The film tells the story of J. Robert Oppenheimer (1904--1967), the theoretical physicist who led the effort to build the first atomic bomb, tested in July 1945 at Trinity site in New Mexico. Featuring candid interviews with several Manhattan Project scientists, as well as newly declassified archival footage, The Day After Trinity was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature of 1980, and received a Peabody Award in 1981.

The film's title comes from an interview seen near the conclusion of the documentary. Robert Oppenheimer is asked for his thoughts on Sen. Robert Kennedy's efforts to urge President Lyndon Johnson to initiate talks to stop the spread of nuclear weapons. "It's 20 years too late," Oppenheimer replies. After a pause he states, "It should have been done the day after Trinity."....'




#21    danielost

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 May 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

What I mean is that it is sensible that if there exist three omniscient coeternal beings that they would be indistinguishable from just one such being.  Given that premise and a decision to divide the labor of saving mankind into different tasks, it is sensible enough that this is how they would proceed.  Of course how it comes to be that a god sacrificing himself somehow saves mankind is not so sensible.

And just think, they also got a "Mother of God" out of the procedure.
g


There is only one god, that knows the future.  This stated in revolation.  Don't know the scripture number.  But it says only god knows when the end will come.  Niether the angels or the son knows.

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There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
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#22    Harte

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 26 May 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:


Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel, (Eerdmans, ISBN 0-8028-2852-3, 2005),[1] is a book by Syro-Palestinian archaeologist William G. Dever, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Archeology and Anthropology at the University of Arizona. “Did God Have a Wife?” was intended as a popular work making available to the general public the evidence long known to archaeologists regarding ancient Israelite religion: namely that the Israelite god of antiquity (before 600 BC), Yahweh, had a consort, that her name was Asherah, and that she was part of the Canaanite pantheon.
http://en.wikipedia....od_Have_a_Wife?
Asherah was El's wife, and El eventually merged with Yahweh.

The words "Israel" and "Elohim" both refer to this earlier version of Yahweh.

A similar thing happened with Marduk, though it never really caught on as a monotheistic belief.

The above lillustrates how several gods can become one god, which illuminates the OP's question somewhat.

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#23    kmt_sesh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:18 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 26 May 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

...

What's interesting - is that the Sami would have more than likely NOT changed the Holy Spirit to a wife. God most likely did have a wife originally.

Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel, (Eerdmans, ISBN 0-8028-2852-3, 2005),[1] is a book by Syro-Palestinian archaeologist William G. Dever, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Archeology and Anthropology at the University of Arizona. “Did God Have a Wife?” was intended as a popular work making available to the general public the evidence long known to archaeologists regarding ancient Israelite religion: namely that the Israelite god of antiquity (before 600 BC), Yahweh, had a consort, that her name was Asherah, and that she was part of the Canaanite pantheon.
http://en.wikipedia....od_Have_a_Wife?

A very good book. I highly recommend this one to anyone with an interest in the origins of Judaism. I don't always agree with Dever's conclusions but in this case I honestly feel he has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that in the earliest stages of the Hebrew religion, Yahweh had a consort: Asherah.

This probably seems odd to the ear of many modern Christians, but consider that the Hebrew religion emerged from the ritual traditions of ancient Canaan, so the theory is perfectly sensible. Whoever and whatever God truly is, is beyond our ability to understand, I feel. But what's not difficult to understand in the light of day is that religion is an invention of ancient man, designed to try to make sense of the cosmos, the world, and what occurs therein. Concepts such as the Christian Trinity are the constructs of man.

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#24    danielost

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:33 PM

Abraham was from summaria.  So he would have used their stories not the caanites.  Remember when he got there him and isaac was told to live seprate from them.  God even made isaac and jacob go back to sumer to get wives.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#25    Abramelin

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:23 AM

View Postdanielost, on 26 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Abraham was from summaria.  So he would have used their stories not the caanites.  Remember when he got there him and isaac was told to live seprate from them.  God even made isaac and jacob go back to sumer to get wives.

A Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis
The Hebrew text literally translated word for word

Jeff A. Benner 2007


and it came to pass in their journey
from the east that they found a level
valley in the land of “Shinar
[Country of two rivers]” and they
settled there


...

Abraham was born "in the land of “Shinar [Country of two rivers]”, in “Ur [Light]” of the ones of
“Kesad [Clod breaker]”,


http://www.ancient-h...e-books/mtg.pdf


Shinar (pron.: /ˈʃaɪ.nɑr/;[1] Hebrew שִׁנְעָר Šinʻar, Septuagint Σεννααρ Sennaar) is a biblical geographical locale of uncertain boundaries in Mesopotamia. The name may be a corruption of Hebrew Shene neharot ("two rivers"), Hebrew Shene arim ("two cities"), or Akkadian Sumeru (from the Sumerians' name for Sumer, which meant perhaps "land of the civilized lords" or "native land").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinar


Maybe Abraham wasn't born in Sumer at all. Ever thought of that one?

OK, back on topic....


#26    kmt_sesh

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:45 AM

Abraham is a mytho-historical character, along the lines of Heracles and Achilles of the Greek tradition. There's no evidence he even existed. In all likelihood, in the nascent stages of the Hebrew religion, when the beginnings of the Old Testament were first being codified in written form, Abraham was a composite character representing any number of Hebraic patriarchs gone and forgotten but immortalized in a way through the character of Abraham. The early Hebrew religion borrowed heavily from the religious traditions of neighboring, older, more established cultures: the Noah story from the ancient Utnapisthim and Gilgamesh fables of Sumer, the Moses story from the origins (perhaps mythic) of the great king Sargon I of Akkad, some of the Psalms from the wisdom texts of Egypt, et cetera.

From Canaan came all sorts of common traditions such as worshiping in high places, animal sacrifice, and innumerous characters and social mores as seen in the older Semitic texts of Ugarit. Later on, it's more than likely that Zoroastrianism of Persia inspired in the Hebrew religion a gradual trend toward the monotheism with which we're familiar today, as well as the idea of divine judgement before one is allowed to enter paradise.

In other words, one would be mistaken to view the Old Testament (and the Bible as a whole) as a literal, factual work of history. It is not. It is merely one religious tradition that existed among many in the ancient Near East. What I always find significant is that the religions and the civilizations of great powers fell away and became extinct (e.g., Egypt, Babylon, Hatti, Assyria, Persia), while the small and "backwoods" kingdom of Judah itself left a profound influence on all of Western civilization. Sometimes the underdog does win.

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#27    Abramelin

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:45 AM

I agree with you that Abraham was most likely a mytho-historical character, and with my post I was only trying to say that the Biblical "Shinar" doesn't necessarily have to be Sumer as is always suggested.


#28    monk 56

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

Hi AlnilamPhiSiriusly,

Your previous comments are very close to my heart, however i don't want to get into controversy regarding dropping this awful bomb on Hiroshima, but man made religion can have nasty intented symbolism, which we really don't want in choosing days!

I always thought that the "TRINITY BOMB" had intended religious symbolism, this and the date of "LITTLE BOY" drop on Hiroshima only makes me more deeply suspicious!!!!

Scottish Rite 33 degree masons love symbolism, Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President, he was also a Scottish Rite 33 degree mason, link below:-

http://www.hst1066.com/lodge/truman/

Please note symbolism to Transfiguration of Christ feast day on 6th August, very symbolic, do you agree?  Link below:-

http://www.huffingto...i_b_672390.html

We can only suspect what was going through Harry Truman's mind when THE BOMB was falling through the sky over Hiroshima, perhaps he was playing god, after all he had his "Little Boy" too!!!!

"This is my Little Boy, listen to him!

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Little_Boy


#29    monk 56

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

It is sad, AlnilamPhiSiriusly,

That you choose your video's with care to being authentic, but needs much in depth analysis, many on this forum have an attention span of a few minutes, thus never watch your video's that are long, so they should be!

Abba Mudda could see another link, who started this thread about Trinity, but should include "Thout":-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thout

Funny isn't it about 11th September 2001 in New York?????  Perhaps nasty human symbolism regarding man made religion??????

Edited by monk 56, 27 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.


#30    monk 56

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

I like looking at eyes, there are few more dead than the eyes of Mohamed Atta, who was born in Egypt ha ha!

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Mohamed_Atta





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