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Burmese Muslims given two-child limit


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#16    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:13 PM

View Postand then, on 28 May 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Nice try KoS.  I admit I am no scholar of the Hadiths OR the Qur'an or the sunnah.  I don't want or need to be.  Perhaps you can explain the following verses and how each is being taken out of context?
Qur'an:  surah 2 verses 191-193
   2  : 244
   2  : 216
   3  : 151
and my favorite   8  : 12  

These verses bespeak of terrible violence against non-believers...PERIOD....that is their only offense.  Islam is a religious/POLITICAL system of belief which wants to subjugate and exercise control over all humanity.  PERIOD.  I like you KoS and I have tried to be a civil individual regarding your beliefs because they are important and it is not my place to condemn anyone but when you condemn me and say basically that I lie then I must defend myself.[size=4]Welcome to UM Almagest.  You are a bit tardy to the discussion but you are
give me the complete verses am not familiar of the numbers of verses in english-translated Quran
so write me the verses and i will find them in my arabic version then address them

and i only accuse you of lying on certain bases which i explained in my previous posts
that they are half true taken one part of verse into account and leaving the rest out
and other times you just don't have enough knowledge on the verses or whom they directed to

so write down those verses you refeering to and i'll be more than happy to address them

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#17    and then

and then

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostAlmagest, on 28 May 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

We should consider ourselves lucky to live in countries where this kind of persecution does not happen. I'm well aware of your affinity for eschatology. I was formerly Cradle of Fish, but I forgot my password and figured it was time for a more relevant username. Almagest comes from the Arabic Al-Majisti, which means 'Greatest' and is the name we know Claudius Ptolemy's Great Treatise by because it practically fell out of use in Europe until it was re-introduced by Islamic scholars.

I agree that Islam cannot be described as a religion of peace until it acts like it, but I think that applies to all religions. It shouldn't be our responsibility to reign in their fanatics, it should be the responsibility of moderate Muslims. And they do it, it just isn't as newsworthy as the bad things that happen. I'm of the opinion that people are generally peaceful until they are given a reason not to be, and it seems like the Us versus Them mentality that pervades monotheism is a major reason. But as demonstrated by the recent events in Myanmar, the phenomenon isn't restricted to monotheistic religions. What's saddest of all is we have all these religions promising peace, but people still do stuff like this to one another.

I know I've argued against your views as being fatalistic before, but I don't dislike you because of it. On the contrary, I find those with a lot of views opposed to mine more interesting to talk to. All I'd say is that Christians have been assuming that the End Times have been just around the corner since the very first followers of Christ, and time and time again it nothing has happened. Eschatology is based on a lot of assumptions, for one who says that the Israel of the end times necessarily is on this planet? We could be ten years, or a hundred, or a thousand, away from such an event if it is going to occur. For all we know a Gamma-Ray Burst might hit us tomorrow and wipe us all out. I think it's better to live as though these things aren't going to happen, and that includes resisting the fatalistic train of thought that such a war in inevitable.

I am worried about the future of the Middle East, if we have a large number of Islamic Republics dominated by different sects of Islam it could easily erupt into quite a sizable war. Millions of people who did nothing wrong except being born in the wrong country at the wrong time may die over the actions of a few fanatics. But I don't see it as the end of the world. It would take something drastic for rational powers such as the USA, China and Russia to bring their nuclear arsenal to the table and turn a regional conflict into a world one.
We agree on much.  And I hope you understand that I am not Satan incarnate, drooling over the prospect of mass death just so I can escape away to some place of eternal bliss.  Actually I view "heaven" as a continuation of my consciousness in the presence of that force which created us all.  I hope that it will be an existence of love and joy because we will continue learning and developing and finally have no need to hurt others any longer - especially when it is done just for the pleasure of hurting them.
The reason I believe that the anointed One is coming soon is because the scriptures are pretty inclusive of all the signs that will precede His arrival and many are blaring from the TV daily.  If, as you say, it is a hundred years hence then so be it.  My life here will end probably within 20 years or less - if I am true to the longevity of my parents - and at death I will finally know the truth....or nothing at all...
My longing for Christ's return isn't about punishment for anyone - it's about wanting the world to finally be healed of the pain and brokenness that makes life a misery for so many.  Most of us try to "first, do no harm" but there is only so much that can be done against the tide of destructive natures that abound in the world.
Glad to see you back - as I recall we debated hotly from time to  time but I still respect you for your opinions :)

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#18    redhen

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:09 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 28 May 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Indeed no religion is perfect. Some might have better track records but history proves Buddhism has veered toward violence before and there are sacred texts that approve it. Good thing most don't follow them.

I'd be interested to read these sacred texts. Can you point out which sutras or shastras they're contained in?


#19    third_eye

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:45 PM

the situation in Burma ... actually "Myanmar" to be accurate ... is political ..... not religio ....

:no:

why do you guys don't want to see the difference ? just a it is in the MIddle East //

be strong with knowledge then ... only ... then be :

Posted Image

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#20    Spiral staircase

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:49 PM

View Postredhen, on 29 May 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

I'd be interested to read these sacred texts. Can you point out which sutras or shastras they're contained in?

Those sacred texts with excerpts were presented on this thread.

Examples were given from Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, White History of the Tenfold Virtuous Dharma, Arya-Bodhisattva-gocara-upayavishay a-vikrurvana-nirdesha Sutra, Upayakaushalya Sutra, and the Kalachakra Tantra which particularly, "describes an eschatological war in which the army of the bodhisattva king of Shambhala finally conquers and annihilates the Muslim forces in order to destroy the barbarian religion and to reestablish Buddhism."  [The Oxford Handbook of Religion and Violence]


=============================================================


In addition a preview of Buddhist Warfare, also published by Oxford, is available online.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 29 May 2013 - 03:54 PM.


#21    Spiral staircase

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:28 PM

Quote

LASHIO, Myanmar — It was a terrifying sight: hundreds of angry, armed men on motorcycles advancing up a dusty street with no one to stop them.

Shouting at the top of their lungs, clutching machetes and iron pipes and long bamboo poles, they thrust their fists repeatedly into the air.

The object of their rage: Myanmar's embattled minority Muslim community.

Myanmar Mosque, Muslim Orphanage Burned After Alleged Immolation Of Buddhist Woman

No end in sight. Send in the peacekeepers.


#22    Abramelin

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:39 PM

View PostAlmagest, on 28 May 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Let nobody repeat the lie that Buddhism is a non-violent religion from this day forward.

Then you should quote texts from Buddhist scriptures that support the decision. I think you'll have a hard time finding even one.

+++

EDIT:

Ah, I stand corrected:

View PostThe world needs you, on 29 May 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:



Those sacred texts with excerpts were presented on this thread.

Examples were given from Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, White History of the Tenfold Virtuous Dharma, Arya-Bodhisattva-gocara-upayavishay a-vikrurvana-nirdesha Sutra, Upayakaushalya Sutra, and the Kalachakra Tantra which particularly, "describes an eschatological war in which the army of the bodhisattva king of Shambhala finally conquers and annihilates the Muslim forces in order to destroy the barbarian religion and to reestablish Buddhism."  [The Oxford Handbook of Religion and Violence]


=============================================================


In addition a preview of Buddhist Warfare, also published by Oxford, is available online.


But something tells me that, even though it is in Buddhist scriptures, it is not according to the words of Buddha himself.


.



Edited by Abramelin, 07 June 2013 - 02:42 PM.


#23    third_eye

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:34 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 June 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:


~snip

But something tells me that, even though it is in Buddhist scriptures, it is not according to the words of Buddha himself.
.

Those are not from any scriptures Abe ... note the source ... it is History as noted by a Buddhist Kingdom Historian

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer





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