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Russian Elite Special Forces in Syria

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#1    AlasBabylon

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:30 AM

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Reports are that Putin has sent a shadowy elite group of specialized forces into Syria.

There are all sorts of speculation as to why they are there.

One thing not mentioned in the articles linked below is a possible Russian rescue
of the two Orthodox Priests kidnapped and being held prisoners by rebels.


More info here:


http://www.wnd.com/2...?cat_orig=world

http://www.businessi...erations-2013-5


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#2    Yamato

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:07 AM

Another proxy war between the same old players circa 1950s Korea, 1960s Vietnam, 1970s Iran, 1980s Afghanistan.  



"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#3    AlasBabylon

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:19 AM

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Topic article says this Russian elite special force is trained in hostage rescues...
which is why I thought of this:


" Patriarch Kirill asks Putin to assist release of kidnapped Syrian hierarchs "


http://www.interfax-...=news&div=10408



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#4    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

Hope they succeed in safely recovering their priests.


#5    shrooma

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 29 May 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Hope they succeed in safely recovering their priests.
.
so do I LBA, but the russian special forces have a horrendous record when it comes to hostage situations. they should've sent in the SAS instead.
dubrovka cinema siege (spetsnaz)-
170 dead
40 terrorists
130 hostages
700 injured
.
iranian embassy siege (SAS)-
five terrorists killed-one captured
26 hostages freed
two dead (by terrorists-one before, one during assault)
two hostages wounded (by terrorists)
.
when the windows go in, I know who i'd want to be smashing 'em, and it ain't no spetsnaz!

Edited by shrooma, 29 May 2013 - 10:04 PM.

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#6    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:54 PM

@ Shrooma
I think some perspective on Dubrovka theatre seige casualties.
From military point this was 100% success in that all terrorists were killed and no spetzgroup soldiers killed. It is of course a tragedy that so many hostages died. You quote 700 wounded, but that number added to the dead is the total number of hostages, so you have counted them all as casualties as if they were victims of a firefight etc. They are only casualties because they had to be gassed along with the terrorists, there was no other way to resolve situation.

If there are nearly 1 000 hostages, and 40 terrorists with bombs ready to exploded at an instance, then gassing was the only way. I know there was endlessly repeated film of one young woman with her head slumped on a bus, and other laying on floor. It is not disputed that the recovery operation could have been better. But, think about this, there are 850 people laying unconscious in the theatre, the soldiers must liquidate any terrorist threat before anything else happens or bombs may have exploded or people machine gunned in their seats. Then look at the horrendous problem of getting that many people out of the theatre and onto recovery positions for breathing. This is a nightmare, nothing remotely like this had ever happened before, and I contend that though 130 dead is bad, it could have been much worse. I do not believe that any other country would have done significantly better in resolving this situation and getting all those unconscious people out of the theatre. Imagine, you are medic and enter the theatre, who do you treat?, well, the first you see. Then, how many medics can get inside an already crowded theatre, and it will need two per unconscious person. To treat all straight away would need nearly 3 000 people in the theatre. This is impossible, and it is unfortunate, but it was inevitable that some hostages would have died because time would have run out before anybody could get to them. There was no lack of medical facilities, Dubrovka Street and surrounding streets were solid with all available ambulances, so many were needed that this is why there were also buses. 850 hostages needs  1 700 ambulances, how many ambulances in Moscow? how many can be outside the theatre at the same time? how many medics and soldiers can fit in the theatre with all the hostages at the same time?, how much space to lay all these people in recovery position before time runs out for some?. A nightmare that gets only ignorant scorn from western media, same as the disgusting lies about Beslan. Not meant as a rant, simply a correction :)


#7    shrooma

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:25 AM

well, allow me to correct your correction.
you don't gas 900 people, pure & simple.
that's badly flawed tactics that no-one would've considered, no-one.
so my point still stands.
the russian special forces have a terrible record when it comes to hostages.
I can cite at least another half-dozen cases if you'd like me to really prove my point?

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#8    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:39 AM

shrooma, you do realize that there is no chance of the sas ever fighting for Assad? If anything the sas are with the rebels like in libya


#9    and then

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:44 AM

I would hate to be the poor guy caught between the two in combat... but my money would be on the SAS.

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#10    shrooma

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:48 AM

course I know prof, it's not our war, and we're not likely to just go jumping in for no reason, but if the russians asked us? instead of sending in their loonies to massacre everyone instead of rescuing 'em as usual?
then it'd be a humanitarian rescue mission if nothing else!
but it'll never happen.
more spetsnaz mentalness coming up.....
(well, my guess is the hostages'll get released before anything happens!)

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#11    shrooma

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:58 AM

View Postand then, on 01 June 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

I would hate to be the poor guy caught between the two in combat... but my money would be on the SAS.
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i'd hate to be in the same COUNTRY as the spetsnaz A.T, they're mental!!
you only have to look at hostage situations like budyonnovsk, or kislyar, I mean, hundreds dead! and s**t like the beslan crisis, they stormed a SCHOOL, with TANKS and ROCKET LAUNCHERS for god's sake! nearly 400 hostages got killed that time, nearly 200 of them WERE CHILDREN!!
the guys are animals A.T, with no respect for human life whatsoever!

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#12    and then

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:14 AM

View Postshrooma, on 01 June 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

course I know prof, it's not our war, and we're not likely to just go jumping in for no reason, but if the russians asked us? instead of sending in their loonies to massacre everyone instead of rescuing 'em as usual?
then it'd be a humanitarian rescue mission if nothing else!
but it'll never happen.
more spetsnaz mentalness coming up.....
(well, my guess is the hostages'll get released before anything happens!)
The very fact that they are so savage should give their adversaries pause but it probably wont because their foes are as crazy or crazier.  What a damned mess it has all gotten to be.  I feel for the poor hostages.

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#13    DarkHunter

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:17 AM

I respect the Spetsnaz, they are amazing soldiers the best Russia has, but when it comes to rescues the Spetsnaz are honestly one of the worst special forces groups for doing a rescue operation.  It mostly has to do with Spetsnaz training and Russian military doctrine.  Unless Russia has changed its military doctrine recently and unless I have greatly misunderstood Russian military doctrine then it is still very offensive based, devastating military assaults, and the like.  There is nothing wrong with a military doctrine that favors a strong offensive component and it works well as Russia has proved, but the problem comes when an operation calls for subtlety and not brute force aggression like a rescue operation as Spetsnaz rescue record has shown.  In a rescue operation you just don't want to kill the enemy as quickly as possible as that tends to also kill the people you are trying to rescue.

While Spetsnaz are highly respectable and I would not want to face them in battle they tend to do poorly in rescue operations because of Russian military doctrine and their training which focus extensively on aggression tactics.  While the Spetsnaz will kill all of the enemy combatants and won't suffer a single loss, they will probably also lose a decent amount of the people they are trying to rescue.


#14    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

View Postshrooma, on 01 June 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

well, allow me to correct your correction.
you don't gas 900 people, pure & simple.
that's badly flawed tactics that no-one would've considered, no-one.
so my point still stands.
the russian special forces have a terrible record when it comes to hostages.
I can cite at least another half-dozen cases if you'd like me to really prove my point?
And you have the solution to a problem like that? Please tell as you seem to be an expert on these affairs. Clearly you have intimate knowledge of Dubrovka street and the surrounding area, and also know about Moscow medical services, how many ambulances there are, how many could be sent to the situation and still leave sufficient for normal accidents. Clearly you also now how to remove 850 unconscious hostages from a theatre within a few minutes. How would you neutralise the terrorists? by using Harry Potter? or some Hollywood "superhero". Let's hear your great plan, show that you are the expert in these affairs, please......

And At the bottom of my post I mentioned the lies about Beslan. You have repeated them, so, where is your information from, youtube videos and comments? the disgusting and criminal press in your country?. Your comments on Beslan are insulting, ignorant and disgusting.

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 01 June 2013 - 07:02 AM.


#15    and then

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:17 AM

While arguing about who's special forces are best we seem to have lost sight of the real problem.  The Chechens may have other beefs beside their religion but the religious aspect seems supreme here to me.  They are just another , particularly nasty part of the growing Umma.  Ultimately there will be no negotiation with this type of enemy.  They do not seek wealth or land or the host of other motivations that have plead the case for wars of the past.  They want Islam to rule supreme and THEY want to be the administrators of it all.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.





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