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IRS Lerner takes 5th, refusing to sign return

lerner irs tea party scandal target

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Poll: Lerner taking the 5th, is like failing to sign your tax return (11 member(s) have cast votes)

Given that Ms. Lerner has taken the 5th, does this violate the Equal Protection Clause?

  1. Yes, it clearly violates the Equal Protection Clause, because taxpayers are required to testify against themselves when they answer the questions on their tax return, and can be held criminally liable if they make a mistake in answering those questions (10 votes [90.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.91%

  2. No, there are two 5th Amendment standards, one for IRS employees testifying before the Congress, and one for taxpayers answering questions on their return (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. I'm afraid to answer this poll because I view the IRS as a God, and God can threaten to, or kill me, however and whenever IT wants. My only appeal is to a Higher God. (1 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

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#16    Raptor Witness

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:50 AM

Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times - May 30, 2013 - Fox News

One of the more interesting aspects to this story is the number of times that the former IRS chief visited the White House, and don't tell me he was having tea every nine days, I'm not buying it. I'm also not buying the story that they were working on Obamacare during all those visits. That's not credible.

There's likely something going on, and unless there was a secret gay love affair, the Tea Party has a right to ask a lot more questions about these numerous visits.

Karl Rove seems to think that the President will use his executive privilege to block any revelations as to what may really have been going on in some of those meetings, which means that we may never know.

In the old days, the President could go to  J. Edgar Hoover to obtain valuable secrets on his enemies, in exchange for his own protection of course, but that's all changed. The FBI was tainted by Hoover, and would never again have the power to do what he did. However, there's one organization that could easily fill those shoes, especially after the Patriot Act, and that would be God.

This could be the real inside story here, which hasn't made history yet. At the 6:50 minute mark below, we may have part of our answer to what might have been going on in all those meetings at the White House, because we already know that the Tea Party was viewed as subversive; but more importantly, it was viewed as obstructionist, and that could easily be misconstrued as subversion. It would make perfect sense that the IRS would be the weapon of choice in this scenario, and it would go hand in glove with their work on Obamacare.

A special counsel who believes in fasting first, and prayer second, is the man you'll be looking for.



Edited by Raptor Witness, 31 May 2013 - 06:12 AM.

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#17    Gummug

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

View PostKowalski, on 30 May 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Which is why we shouldn't have an IRS. Institute a fair tax....
I read a book about the fair tax, and if it were instituted it would put us light years ahead of what we have now. The bureaucrats and the powers that be that profit from the current system, however, will oppose it with all their power, and so barring a massive waking up of the American people, I'm afraid it hasn't much chance of being implemented. Unfortunately during the 2012 presidential campaign, except for a few of the (unfortunately lesser popular) candidates, I don't think it was even mentioned during the debates. Btw, thanks for the post about Nixon vs. Obama, I've just been reading it.  I agree that imo Obama is FAR worse than Nixon. Except for Watergate (and I don't know how much he had to do with that) I don't know much about his presidency or how bad/good he was. At the time I was a veritable ignoramus on politics. Shame on me I guess.

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#18    Gummug

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:27 AM

View Postacidhead, on 31 May 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

Ron Paul retired from GOV bro.
And Michelle Bachmann declined another term in congress...I can't say I blame her, I would think she would feel like tearing her hair out at the end of each day, poor girl. Sad to hear that Mr. Paul retired, but for his sake I'm glad, imo he deserves a peaceful retirement.

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#19    ninjadude

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 31 May 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:


which is of course, complete and utter BS

Quote



The Right’s IRS ‘Smoking Gun’ is a Total Dud; Turns Out They Didn’t Bother to Read
By: Sarah JonesJun. 1st, 2013more from Sarah Jones





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White House records show former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman signed in for 11 visits, not 157 between 2009 and 2012 as claimed by the Daily Caller and Fox News, The Atlantic revealed.
Here’s a case where President Obama’s efforts toward transparency have greatly confused the pretend journalists hiding out at the propaganda machine known as The Daily Caller. The President opened up the White House visitor logs to the public. But The Daily Caller, which purports to be competent at covering the White House when they’re not heckling the President, thought those logs were something other than what they are. Thus, they concluded that they had found the smoking gun to tie Obama to the IRS “scandal” ala Nixon, except without the tapes and without any proof that these alleged meetings were about anything other than their stated purpose.
The Daily Caller’s absurd attempt to conclude “coordination“:


Publicly released records show that embattled former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman visited the White House at least 157 times during the Obama administration, more recorded visits than even the most trusted members of the president’s Cabinet.

… But the scope of Shulman’s White House visits — which strongly suggests coordination by White House officials in the campaign against the president’s political opponents — is even more striking in comparison to the publicly recorded access of Cabinet members.

Of course, it’s hard to get proof of “coordination” when the meetings didn’t take place. It turns out that Garance Franke-Ruta, a rather industrious writer at The Atlantic, bothered to sift through all of the documents in order to determine that actually, former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman signed in for 11 visits, not 157, between 2009 and 2012 (my bold):


The latest twist in the conservative effort to tie the IRS tax-exempt targeting scandal to the president is to focus on public visitor records released by the White House, in which former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman’s name appears 157 times between 2009 and 2012. Unfortunately, few of those pushing this line have bothered to read more than the topline of that public information. Bill O’Reilly on Thursday called them the “smoking gun” and demanded of Shulman, “You must explain under oath what you were doing at the White House on 157 separate occasions.” His statement built on a Daily Caller story, “IRS’s Shulman had more public White House visits than any Cabinet member.” An Investors Business Daily story and slew of blog items repeated the charges.
“The alibi the White House has wedded itself to is that it had to work closely with the IRS to implement ObamaCare,” the Investor’s Business Daily has written — as if that were not true.

“And yet the public meeting schedules available for review to any media outlet show that very thing: Shulman was cleared primarily to meet with administration staffers involved in implementation of the health-care reform bill,” Garance Franke-Ruta concludes (based on that pesky thing called actual evidence).
These logs were available to the Daily Caller, and IBD, and as Garance Franke-Ruta points out, the logs are a system for Secret Service and White House security, so if your name is on there, you were cleared for a visit. You may or may not have had a visit. That part is important, because that’s where the Daily Caller tripped on their efforts to provide Fox News with an anti-Obama headline they could jack up as the “smoking gun”. They were further tripped up by their lack of understanding regarding what the logs represent, yet they are a member of the White House press pool.
The Daily Caller also seems unaware that these logs were not made public by the Bush administration, so when they claim that Shulman’s predecessor only visited once, they are basing that on the opacity of the former administration rather than on facts. (But this is all about freedom and accountability, not about attacking Obama, even though Heritage directed Republicans to attack Obama rather than legislate.)
It’s just like The Daily Caller and Fox News to: a) not bother to read, B) assume that it’s fair game to conclude that what the visits say they were for is not actually what they are for, with no proof, c) to ignore the fact that the visits were cleared for policy discussions on healthcare at least 76% of the time and d) to accuse Obama of being Nixon, even though there is absolutely not one shred of evidence that the White House had anything to do with the IRS trying to determine who was scamming the IRS with fake nonprofits.
Republicans tout “True the Vote” as their ultimate victim of the IRS, but True the Vote was found by a judge to have acted illegally in aiding Republicans, among other ethical and legal issues.
The real IRS scandal is that nonprofits have been allowed to function as PACs, polluting our political system with dark money. The remedy to the IRS “scandal” is for there to be a zero tolerance rule for all nonprofits. But of course, Republicans don’t want that to happen, because they outspend liberals 34-1 trying to influence politics with their “nonprofits”.
The Right jumped the Nixon shark with this one. In Nixon’s case, there was an actual smoking gun in the form of tapes proving that he targeted his “enemies” out of revenge. On these tapes, Nixon directed aides to use the IRS to go after his enemies. That’s a far cry from claiming that a meeting with healthcare advisers was really a meeting about the IRS, and the Daily Caller can “prove” their fictional conspiracy because there were so many meetings– only there weren’t.
http://www.politicus...other-read.html

Edited by ninjadude, 02 June 2013 - 07:25 PM.

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#20    Raptor Witness

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:21 AM

View Postninjadude, on 02 June 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

which is of course, complete and utter BS

http://www.politicus...other-read.html
Shulman's Easter Egg Roll excuse for why he visited the White House so many times, was what I would expect from God.





Edited by Raptor Witness, 03 June 2013 - 07:34 AM.

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#21    Raptor Witness

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:13 AM

My theory about what's been going on over at the IRS is very simple. They viewed the Tea Party as a very serious threat to their job security. So they attacked the threat, in order to preserve the status quo, probably hoping the movement would simply die out and go away, especially if they hindered it enough.

In a way, what we see happening today is a more civilized form of the Arab Spring. The IRS used the equivalent of tear gas and rubber bullets, but instead of leaving the square, the protestors got very angry.

In order to satisfy this mob, I suspect they'll need to liquidate the hindrance, and then take away her broom stick.

The problem is that most of the wizards behind those curtains in Washington, must be sent back in their hot air balloons, first.



Edited by Raptor Witness, 05 June 2013 - 08:40 AM.

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#22    preacherman76

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:32 AM

View PostGummug, on 31 May 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I read a book about the fair tax, and if it were instituted it would put us light years ahead of what we have now. The bureaucrats and the powers that be that profit from the current system, however, will oppose it with all their power, and so barring a massive waking up of the American people, I'm afraid it hasn't much chance of being implemented. Unfortunately during the 2012 presidential campaign, except for a few of the (unfortunately lesser popular) candidates, I don't think it was even mentioned during the debates. Btw, thanks for the post about Nixon vs. Obama, I've just been reading it.  I agree that imo Obama is FAR worse than Nixon. Except for Watergate (and I don't know how much he had to do with that) I don't know much about his presidency or how bad/good he was. At the time I was a veritable ignoramus on politics. Shame on me I guess.

Yea I first learned about the fair tax back in 2008. It was at the one tea party raily I attended. This guy had a booth where he was passing out pamflits(sp?) about it. I sat BSing with the guy for like an hour. By the time that conversation was over he definitly had me convinced. No way for the rich to avoid taxes through loopholes. Illegals paying taxes. Even the under ground economy will pay thier fair share. Tourist from other countries (at the time) were spending like 40 billion a year here, even they would be contributing to our tax system. NTM it gives the power back to the people where we decide how much we pay in taxes. The IRS has become such a monster with so many rules and regulations that they could litteraly nail anyone they want to the wall. Of course because its impossible to know everything there is to know about the laws, and they have made it so there is no way you can follow all the rules. Heck the money saved on no longer investigating and prosecuting tax cheats alone would be huge.

Edited by preacherman76, 05 June 2013 - 10:39 AM.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#23    F3SS

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

^^^  pamphlet
And yes the fair tax is thee best and far simplest system imaginable.

Edited by F3SS, 05 June 2013 - 08:06 PM.

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#24    ninjadude

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:13 AM

Quote


Proof the IRS Didn't Target Just Conservatives

Almost one third of the tax-exemption applications selected for additional scrutiny by the IRS were from groups that were not conservative.
Posted Imagehttp://www.theatlant...vatives/276536/

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#25    F3SS

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:22 AM

Ok nice pie chart. But where's the slice that indicates liberal audits? The big blue other leaves a lot to be desired.

Edited by F3SS, 06 June 2013 - 02:22 AM.

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#26    ninjadude

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:36 AM

from the linked article

Quote

All told, around 470 groups were flagged as "potential political cases" between 2010 and 2012, including 298 whose experiences were analyzed in a Treasury Department inspector general's report. Because the IRS by law must not name groups that have not yet been approved or which were rejected, only a subset of their names was made public in May by the agency -- 176 cases.
Of these, "the majority of the groups selected for extra scrutiny probably matched the political criteria the IRS used and backed conservative causes, the Tea Party, or limited government generally," wrote Martin A. Sullivan in a June 3 piece in Tax Notes, a newsletter published by the Tax Analysts group. "But a substantial minority -- almost one third of the subset -- did not fit that description."


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#27    Gummug

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:27 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 05 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Yea I first learned about the fair tax back in 2008. It was at the one tea party raily I attended. This guy had a booth where he was passing out pamflits(sp?) about it. I sat BSing with the guy for like an hour. By the time that conversation was over he definitly had me convinced. No way for the rich to avoid taxes through loopholes. Illegals paying taxes. Even the under ground economy will pay thier fair share. Tourist from other countries (at the time) were spending like 40 billion a year here, even they would be contributing to our tax system. NTM it gives the power back to the people where we decide how much we pay in taxes. The IRS has become such a monster with so many rules and regulations that they could litteraly nail anyone they want to the wall. Of course because its impossible to know everything there is to know about the laws, and they have made it so there is no way you can follow all the rules. Heck the money saved on no longer investigating and prosecuting tax cheats alone would be huge.
So true, and the IRS would no longer be able to target groups they don't like. Also I read that someone did a study and determined that when they called in to ask the IRS for help with a tax problem, about 60% of the time the help or answers given were wrong. That somehow doesn't surprise me. Basically imo the government is using our own tax dollars to enslave us.

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