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Zimmerman trial


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#211    susieice

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:13 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 29 June 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

You forgot that we live in a society with enough hypocrisy to gag a maggot. Maybe the term was used in a friendly way. ;)
We also live in a society that picks and chooses what it does and doesn't want to believe. I'm to assume the entire rest of the girl's testimony is a lie, except for that one sentence. None of these words were in the original deposition.

Edited by susieice, 29 June 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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#212    libstaK

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

View Postsusieice, on 29 June 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Yes, it is odd. The officers testified that Martin was on his stomach with both his hands beneath his body. Zimmerman had previously stated that after the shot, he pinned Martin's arms open because he wasn't sure if Martin would try to get up again. (Look in a previous link regarding the first officer's testimony) I'm really wondering if Zimmerman will take the stand.
It does seem impossible to imagine his hands beneath his body if Zimmerman had to squirm out from under him having pinned his arms open to begin with - I agree, if Zimmerman took the stand they would want to dissect that with him.  I am sure they will present and dissect the scenario anyway though, at some point.

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#213    docyabut2

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:06 PM

View Postsusieice, on 29 June 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

The evidence doesn't show yet who the agressor was. We only know that Zimmerman followed Martin, that Martin started to run and at some point in the struggle, which moved around, Trayvon could have been getting the better. Three women also testified that they saw Zimmerman on top.
If we are to believe Racheals's testimony, then Trayvon was fleeing and Zimmerman came up behind him.

I go by who attacked who frist.  Trayon`s girl friend said the last she head on the phone was a bump and a voice get off get off, of which it could have been Zimmerion voice and there are no witness in the 911 calls that ever said they saw Zimmeron on top of Trayon, only Trayon on top of Zimmemon beating him.Who would be yelling help if not the one getting beat up. To bad none of those neighbors did not come out a try and get trayon off of  Zimmemon and tried to help ,he may have not have been shot.


#214    regi

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:42 PM

View Postsusieice, on 29 June 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

The evidence doesn't show yet who the agressor was. We only know that Zimmerman followed Martin, that Martin started to run and at some point in the struggle, which moved around, Trayvon could have been getting the better. Three women also testified that they saw Zimmerman on top.
If we are to believe Racheals's testimony, then Trayvon was fleeing and Zimmerman came up behind him.

I think the circumstances show that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Martin ran from Zimmerman...he tried to lose Zimmerman, and he did for over two minutes. Martin never knewwho Zimmerman was and/or why Zimmerman was following him. (I personally believe Zimmerman continued to look for Martin because I think that's what shows in the police call dialogue, the timing of the dialogue and the descriptions of events.)
The point is, Martin never knew Zimmerman's intention, and I think that placed Martin in a fight or flight situation.


#215    Vincennes

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:20 PM

View Postregi, on 29 June 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I think the circumstances show that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Martin ran from Zimmerman...he tried to lose Zimmerman, and he did for over two minutes. Martin never knewwho Zimmerman was and/or why Zimmerman was following him. (I personally believe Zimmerman continued to look for Martin because I think that's what shows in the police call dialogue, the timing of the dialogue and the descriptions of events.)
The point is, Martin never knew Zimmerman's intention, and I think that placed Martin in a fight or flight situation.

Regi, I think you hit the nail on the head.  From the minute Z got out of his car carrying a loaded gun with the safety off, he became a stalker.  His entire defense of this is irrational.  Going back to the fact that what brought him to that situation was a series of BURGLARIES - not night stalker serial killings - his actions were way over the line of logical response to the situation.  In other words, his response was not equal to the perceived threat.  He ignored the police when told not to follow and continued to do so along with the gun he had "forgotten" he had.  Why?  Did he think he was going to catch Martin running away carrying say a TV through that twisty turn dark neighborhood?  In his mind would that have been justification not to wait for the police but to shoot?  I would also like to know why each time they have referred to the burglaries they state that they had been committed by black youth who always managed to get away.  How do they know all the burglaries were committed by black youth if they got away?  And yet, the prosecution never challenges their statement of this assumption.

In fact, I am really beginning to wonder about the prosecutor in this case.  As I said earlier, he did nothing to aid Rachel with clarity of her testimony.  The burglaries were committed by Blacks is never challenged.  I'm no attorney but throughout all of the testimony I have heard witnesses again and again asked for answers that to me are based on what is really just speculation.  I think I have only heard one or two objections to this by the prosecutor.  In fact, during the testimony of the PA, she answered several times that a response would only be speculation with no objection to the questions made by the prosecutor.

Edited by Duncansmom, 29 June 2013 - 04:35 PM.


#216    regi

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 29 June 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Who would be yelling help if not the one getting beat up.

In this case, I don't think what appears an obvious purpose was Zimmerman's purpose. In other words, I think Zimmerman would be screaming to alert police of his location. (He was of the knowledge that police were on their way and would arrive nearby.)


#217    DieChecker

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 29 June 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

This is not going to be good if Zimmerion is found not guilty of only the second degee murder charge of which he clearly is not, but  self defence, why did`nt they file other degrees and let the jury decide of which degree , like the Casy Antoney case,the jury went right down the line not guilty of frist, second, ect, ect,all though they should have found her guilty of one them.
I'm not sure why they did not charge him with lesser crimes. Surely there are five to ten other crimes he could have been charged with. I think either the DA is stupid, or they are holding those charges for later in case Z is found innocent.

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#218    DieChecker

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

View Postregi, on 29 June 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

In this case, I don't think what appears an obvious purpose was Zimmerman's purpose. In other words, I think Zimmerman would be screaming to alert police of his location. (He was of the knowledge that police were on their way and would arrive nearby.)
What is it the Judge says?.... Found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Do you think, regarding who was on top punching who, that there is reasonable doubt?

Do you think that regarding who confronted who, that there is reasonable doubt?

Again it really does not matter, because the mental conditions of Murder are not going to be proven in this case, unless Z talks himself into it.

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#219    and then

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

View Postsusieice, on 29 June 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

The evidence doesn't show yet who the agressor was. We only know that Zimmerman followed Martin, that Martin started to run and at some point in the struggle, which moved around, Trayvon could have been getting the better. Three women also testified that they saw Zimmerman on top.
If we are to believe Racheals's testimony, then Trayvon was fleeing and Zimmerman came up behind him.
Z has put on a lot of weight since the event (stress eating I bet) but even when he was fit I find it unlikely that a 17 year old athlete could not have run far away from a 29 year old guy.  Unless he was just upset that some "cracker" seemed to be following him.  This is an important point.  T probably CHOSE to turn back and confront out of excess pride and testosterone - it's what young, angry men will often do.  Does that justify shooting him?  Nope.  But attempting to beat a guy senseless might.

Edited by and then, 29 June 2013 - 05:13 PM.

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#220    susieice

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:55 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 29 June 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

I go by who attacked who frist.  Trayon`s girl friend said the last she head on the phone was a bump and a voice get off get off, of which it could have been Zimmerion voice and there are no witness in the 911 calls that ever said they saw Zimmeron on top of Trayon, only Trayon on top of Zimmemon beating him.Who would be yelling help if not the one getting beat up. To bad none of those neighbors did not come out a try and get trayon off of  Zimmemon and tried to help ,he may have not have been shot.
Had Zimmerman stopped following Martin, no one would be in the position they are now.

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#221    susieice

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

View Postand then, on 29 June 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Z has put on a lot of weight since the event (stress eating I bet) but even when he was fit I find it unlikely that a 17 year old athlete could not have run far away from a 29 year old guy.  Unless he was just upset that some "cracker" seemed to be following him.  This is an important point.  T probably CHOSE to turn back and confront out of excess pride and testosterone - it's what young, angry men will often do.  Does that justify shooting him?  Nope.  But attempting to beat a guy senseless might.
But no one is describing coming upon a man who was beaten senseless, or even dazed. I have a hard time grasping how the descriptions of a man who has just been in a fight and killed someone in fear of his life as acting calm. He doesn't seem phased in any way other than to tell the arriving officer that he shot someone and was still armed. The officer also said he could see the gun on Zimmerman's right hip when he moved his arm, so it's possible that Martin did also. Would that mean that Martin had a right to defend himself against someone he knew was armed?

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#222    susieice

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 29 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

It does seem impossible to imagine his hands beneath his body if Zimmerman had to squirm out from under him having pinned his arms open to begin with - I agree, if Zimmerman took the stand they would want to dissect that with him.  I am sure they will present and dissect the scenario anyway though, at some point.
Witness Joe Manalo, who went out and was talking to Zimmerman after the shooting, and in fact, is the one who took the pictures of the back of his head, was asked several times if they moved the body and he said no. Again, he testified that while injured, Zimmerman seemed calm, asking him to call his wife. He doesn't appear shaken at all having just fought for his life. I find that very unusual behavior. He seems calm, collected and aware that he has some explaining to do.

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#223    Michelle

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

I believe the technical term for that is shock, Susie.


#224    regi

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:56 PM

View PostDuncansmom, on 29 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

How do they know all the burglaries were committed by black youth if they got away?

I love it! They certainly couldn't known that, right?! :tu:

View PostDuncansmom, on 29 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

In other words, his response was not equal to the perceived threat.  He ignored the police when told not to follow and continued to do so along with the gun he had "forgotten" he had.  Why?

Yeah, that doesn't describe someone I want to be armed.
Actually, it's timely that you ask because yesterday's testimony included info. from the P.A. that Zimmerman was seeing a psychologist.


#225    rimbaudelaire

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:20 PM

Florida's laws regarding self-defense in a shooting death are clear. IMO, the prosecution will not have any problems proving that Zimmy does not have an evident self-defense argument. However, there are 6 jurors who may think otherwise.





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