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The Paranormal is it Fake?


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#586    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:42 AM

View Postalibongo, on 03 July 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

Yeah, but I believe Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer, so he has some cool stuff about aliens, weird body meters or something, and a mad hierarchy which can only be reached through paying huge sums of money. Obviously no religion is worth paying for, but it might be a lark to get involved at ground floor level.
Indeed, it is structured much like pyramid selling.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

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With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

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#587    Sakari

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:08 PM

The Randi Challenge is / was not the only one out there...


http://en.wikipedia...._the_paranormal



And...




psychics might go to India and contact B. Premanand who will pay Rs. 100,000 "to any person or persons who will demonstrate any psychic, supernatural of paranormal ability of any kind under satisfactory observing conditions." Also, "Prabir Ghosh will pay Rs. 20,00,000* to anyone who claims to possess supernatural power of any kind and proves the same without resorting to any trick in the location specified by Prabir Ghosh."

The Australian Skeptics offer $100,000 (Australian), $80,000 for the psychic and $20,000 for anyone "who nominates a person who successfully completes the Australian Skeptics Challenge." If you nominate yourself, and are successful, you get the whole hundred grand.


The Association for Skeptical Inquiry (ASKE), a U.K. skeptic organization, offers £12,000 for proof of psychic powers.


The Independent Investigations Group "offers a $50,000 prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event."


The North Texas Skeptics offer $12,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic or paranormal power or ability under scientifically valid observing conditions.


The Quebec Skeptics offer $10,000 to any astrologer who can demonstrate her craft according in a formal scientific experiment.


The Tampa Bay Skeptics offer $1,000 to anyone able to demonstrate any paranormal phenomenon under mutually agreed-upon observing conditions.


A group in New Zealand calling itself "Immortality" is offering a prize of $NZ2,000,000 to anyone "who can display an actual paranormal ability, under controlled conditions." One million goes to the successful applicant and one million to the charity of his or her choice.


Finally, conjurer Chris Angel offered $1,000,000 of his own money to Uri Geller and Jim Callahan if they could psychically determine the contents of an envelope he held in his hand. The offer was in response to Callahan's claim that his performance of a trick on a TV show called "Phenomenon" was aided by spirit guide.



Edited by Sakari, 03 July 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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#588    Sakari

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:37 PM

Good all the way through....Best at 11 minute mark.

Evidence to support parts of the Paranormal being fake.




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#589    Mikko-kun

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:39 PM

I suppose none of those tests give it to an astrologer. I know there's astrologers who could tell your birthday and hour without so extensive effort, I'm pretty sure there must be some. So that leaves me with the question, is that kind of a thing considered a psychic power, does it qualify? I might be able to make myself richer some day if it does, the problem is I dont like doing it in supervised conditions and so on, home on my time and my terms is the best, it's the eureka-kind of thing for me at least, at times.

But if the qualification of psychic is to have a power others dont have or can't have too easily, then that shouldn't count. Because you can learn how to do it. It's no trick, it's basic thing everyone who dont have mental limitations should be able to do, as far as I see it. Just to me sounds like something they might view as a psychic thing.

oh, the Quebec Sceptics, could use 10k..

oh, only for french huh? ....

oh, they had english pages...

Quote


We have no interest in theories or explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if you provide us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded.

Can't blame them for that, but just goes to say they clearly ain't interested in studying the phenomenas, just interested in seeing whether they exist or not. Controversy and conditioning. I'd do it even if money wasn't involved, and not like I'm better than professional astrologers out there. I'm more interested in studying them than proving to someone who has their own biased conditions and terms they dictate for such tests and try to hide their dictation under the facade of "you have a say in it". I can understand their will to weed out pretenses, but it's just more a publicity trick where you use money as candy. Proof of that:

Quote

Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the testing may be used freely by JREF in any way that Mr. Randi may choose.

You can call me a coward, but then I can just dare you to let me decipher some of your birth data after an exchange we make. Not making promises here though, as you must understand, catering to that kind of wishes doesn't pay, just like trying Randi's stuff doesn't pay 50% of the time even if you were for real, because Randi either abuses or ignores the placebo effect to make his ends meet.

Quote


When entering into this challenge, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, against any persons peripherally involved, and against the James Randi Educational Foundation, as far as this may be done by established statutes. This applies to injury, accident, or any other damage of a physical or emotional nature, and/or financial, or professional, loss or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize.

In other words, mr. Randi can be as condescending as he likes with whatever happens there, and draw any conclusion he wants without consequences of what happens there, and tell anything he wants about that.

I can very much understand that you'd want to weed out the wannabes and pretenses and all that, but after all the hostility and condescence you can't blame anyone for being repelled by the thought of just going out there to get emotionally wounded once again.

I'd rather go some place where someone would be interested in seeing whether or not you have some ability you can develop, and offer you something to develop it with.

Quote

Be advised that you should conduct proper, secure, tests of your own, to determine whether your abilities or claims are actually valid. Some persons who failed to do this, have undergone serious embarrassment and emotional stress, as a result. This advice is offered only so that you might be spared these problems.

First you give all the terms and then say "it's all your fault" when you dont cut it with the terms you give. Anyone can give terms of what qualifies and what doesn't. Basic form of bias, no matter how logical you think you are. They're not interested in the nature of things, but in how things work in what they conceive as reality. I dont blame them for seeking out truth tho, just for not having a will to have more eye for it. But it's a choise. "Truth must fit in my box or it ain't truth" I think sums it all up, both this discussion and Mr. Randi.

Edited by Mikko-kun, 03 July 2013 - 11:07 PM.

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#590    Mikko-kun

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:15 PM

And just to be clear, the thing I think many of those astrologers who have developed their sense beyond mine (there must be many of those around), could tell peoples' birthdates and hours after getting known to them, If it ain't a psychic thing, ok. But it gets far harder to prove the other way around on Randi's terms, because astrology is too much about choises to be grounded-down to something that "must be like this, no other choise", unless you're a real pro or just quite proficient with mundane or event-based astrology. But we still can do it the other way around pretty well. I've studied it only for a year and have gotten my workmates' data pretty much right. And it'd be likely a prolonged experiment, unless you get someone who's very good at it to do it, because it can take time to get to know to people as they really are, especially when you're being observed, as if it wasn't hard enough already. And some cases are harder than others, is just how it is, because we dont see everything equally clearly.

I'd be still willing to give it a go if Randi was in Finland, at least. Not having the funds right now to make a trip just for that, let alone the time.

Wherever there's a problem, there's solutions.
Answers are found from a wide deep perspective, from opened mind's eyes.
From where good and bad stay silent and you hear the real cause and effect, and big picture.
Giving up is wasting your time, but also necessary to find the true cause you didn't find yet.
Staying in the path is necessary only when there's trueness in that path.

#591    blackpantherSA

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:02 AM

first of all they do exist because... and let me just say no bull **** and true story...i thought i had a dream i was walking to the living room and saw a man in white looking at me while i was going to the kitchen broke a glass cup i had attempted to grab from the cabinet that cut up my foot and my parents came out of their room asking what happend and i did not even care about my foot i asked them about the man i saw and it turned out it was neighbor that i had a stroke next door that liked to come over and apparently they were his only friends or something and i was never there to see him so they showed me a picture and i confirmed it was him... im not beiliever untill now my parents are happy an sad and a little uncomfortable with seeing him all the time show they had a shaman come in and perform something thats called the abandom ritual oh wau it was the abolish ritual.. i think i cant remember the name of the ritual


#592    xFelix

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:26 AM

Lol

Good to see everyone is still discussing this back and forward...

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#593    alibongo

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

There may be something in it after all. My grandmother was told by a psychic that her husband would die. She was obviously very upset.Lo and behold, twenty three years later he dropped down dead with a heart attack! Spooky or what?


#594    xFelix

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:29 PM

View Postalibongo, on 11 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

There may be something in it after all. My grandmother was told by a psychic that her husband would die. She was obviously very upset.Lo and behold, twenty three years later he dropped down dead with a heart attack! Spooky or what?

Spookier yet is your location being listed as Armacham Jail, and yet you are still posting here!!!

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#595    alibongo

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:31 AM

View PostxFelix, on 11 July 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

Spookier yet is your location being listed as Armacham Jail, and yet you are still posting here!!!
Bet you don't know where Amarcham Jail is! It isn't very far from here, not where I am anyway.

Edited by alibongo, 12 July 2013 - 12:33 AM.


#596    Mr Walker

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:04 AM

View Postalibongo, on 12 July 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Bet you don't know where Amarcham Jail is! It isn't very far from here, not where I am anyway.
I assume Armachan gaol is a holding cell in the headquarters of ATC. What are you in their for? Poor game play or revealing corporate secrets?

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#597    psyche101

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

"If the Prize is awarded, this would not mean that the JREF acknowledges the existence of the supernatural."

I would take a guess that might be because it is a Challenge, not peer review?

JREF is not the authority, they would inform the relevant section of the scientific community, and they would take it from there. This "springboard" seems to keep the credulous time wasters at bay. In this regard, JREF is providing a community service.

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

It seems you don't even understand the nature of the experiments...

It would seem you did not understand the post.

Edited by psyche101, 16 July 2013 - 08:51 AM.

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#598    psyche101

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:51 AM

View PostMikko-kun, on 03 July 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:


In other words, mr. Randi can be as condescending as he likes with whatever happens there, and draw any conclusion he wants without consequences of what happens there, and tell anything he wants about that.


You can believe he may do that, but if it is a genuine claim, then Randi would lose all credibility, which would be rather costly I imagine, particularly when you consider his court case with Uri Geller. Randi is one stop, if one has the genuine item, Randi is not the sole source of verification, he is not an authority in this regard, just highly experienced, but if you can convince him, then I imagine any psychics credibility would be very high in general.
I get the impression that people who think they are in this way "special" but cannot prove it are the most vocal opponents of Randi's challenge.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#599    Frank Merton

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:34 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 16 July 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

I get the impression that people who think they are in this way "special" but cannot prove it are the most vocal opponents of Randi's challenge.
I get the impression that lots of people think they are "special" in some way.  Often they are lying, but its a special sort of lie that on one level the person knows is not true but on another level the person believes.  For a long time I didn't believe this phenomenon exists, which I think made me somewhat more tolerant of this sort of claim, but a few cases of serious questioning until inconsistencies and other clues came out has revealed it.

It applies to experiences, to faith, to observed phenomena,  and so on, and the thing is there is no answer to such a claim short of mental imbalance or lying, and the person seems reasonably stable.

When it comes to ourselves, we are almost all downright fools.


#600    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

View Postalibongo, on 11 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

There may be something in it after all. My grandmother was told by a psychic that her husband would die. She was obviously very upset.Lo and behold, twenty three years later he dropped down dead with a heart attack! Spooky or what?

Oh yes, that was spooky.. Who'd of guessed that we humans would one day die?   It's amazing to see people with special skills..

I predict, that the next person who win the lottery, will either be a man OR a woman...   I will add, they will likely wind up sharing the jackpot with other winners...  Now I bet you anything I will have gotten at least half of that right?   If not, all of it..

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