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Changing attitudes to busines


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#1    pantodragon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:51 PM

A young woman from the charity Erskine has just knocked at my door.  The encounter went something like this:

Her opening gambit: “Hello, how are you?”

I nodded, but did not reply --- thinks: Who are you?  You are a total stranger knocking at my door --- none of your damned business how I am.  Anyway, this false friendliness is a sales technique: it is an attempt to draw me into a conversation, to lower my defences, thus making me more susceptible to parting with my money.

Next she stated: “I’m not trying to sell you anything”.

Again, I did not reply --- thinks: Yeah, right, I’ve heard that one before.  And YOU are a liar.  You ARE here to sell me something.  You’re here to sell your charity to me; to emotionally manipulate me into giving you money.

She then gave me a rather long spiel about the charity: who it is trying to help and why.  This was accompanied by a claim that the charity is looking for doorstep donations because, due to the recession, businesses aren’t as generous as they once were --- more emotional manipulation.

I listened politely --- thinks: God, I wish she’d hurry up, it’s bl**dy freezing standing here with the door open.

Having completed the sales pitch, she finally she gets to the point: “Would I be prepared to give “as little as” £2 per month to Erskine, starting in July?”

“No”, I replied.

She asked if my answer was always going to be “no” or if it was “no” only AFTER I’d heard her spiel.

I said it was the former.

Geez!!!  Well!!!  I’ve never yet heard the like!  The woman instantly jumped down my throat!  “Why didn’t you tell me sooner?” she demanded aggressively.  She continued in this belligerent fashion, accusing me of wasting her time and of not giving her feedback on her sales technique (of, course, she did not use the phrase “sales technique”).

When I responded with “You’ve got a damned nerve accusing ME of wasting YOUR time!” she became even more aggressive.  All I could do was shut the door on her.

(I wanted to say more, to really let rip, but these aggressive sales techniques are deliberately designed to put you on the defensive --- she knew where I lived, but I didn’t know her from Tom, Dick or Harry; what repercussions was I risking by saying what I really wanted to say? ---  and so I reined myself in.)

The whole experience begs the following question:  How long is it going to be before it is an offence not to answer one’s door to sales people?

Think I’m joking?  Well, go on, have your wee laugh.  Then have a think about it…………

If you are old enough, you will remember a time when there were no, or very few, door-to-door salesmen.  They were not approved of.  In those days a householder’s home was his castle.  If a pushy salesman came to the door, you could safely send him away with a flea in his ear.  But business was persistent; it changed the moral landscape; it changed people’s perspective; it changed people’s habits.  Where formerly people had objected to door-to-door salesmen they learned to find them acceptable.

The same happened with junk mail.  Where formerly people had objected to junk mail, the persistence of business changed people’s habits, changed the moral landscape such that junk mail is now accepted.

Now business has used the same change-the-moral-landscape techniques to persuade people to accept telephone sales calls.

And then we come to charity doing door-to-door collections.  Ten years ago, five years ago even, the behaviour of the young woman I met today would not have been accepted.  She would not have dared to be so aggressive.

Today, however, one has fewer and fewer rights in one’s own home.  This is because we are currently undergoing a changing moral landscape.  Charity has taken the moral high ground and business is persuading that there is a moral obligation to answer one’s door when charity calls (charity is just another business, of course).  Thus, while I have no right to waste the young woman’s time, she has a right to be knocking on my door.  Furthermore, she has a right to take me to task if I fail to behave in the desired  manner.  More generally, business has a right to send you junk mail, but you have no right to object to junk mail; business has a right to make unsolicited sales phone calls to your home, but you have no right to object to these calls.

Once the tables have been turned, once business has changed the moral landscape, then it can change the law.

How long, then, will it be before it is an offence not to open one’s door when business calls?


#2    Jessica Christ

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:56 PM

This story could also be seen as a moral fable. Except in this recanting you are the salesperson and we are you. This may reveal why others are least likely to accept what you, in fact what we all, have to say to each other.

Do you feel it is a crime when others reject what you have to say? Do we feel that way when the shoe is switched?

No one wants to hear the "business" of another and we each feel the other has an agenda and through it all friendship suffers and we lose the ability to just listen to another as a friend even if we won't agree we are capable of understanding if we allow.

We form alliances against "the other". How long until that itself is recognized as a crime against friendship? Support the friendship foundation (fictional) and let us turn to each other with open ears and hearts. Of course if you had listened to her and told her you could not but also asked her if she was willing to allow you change the topic and have her listen to you friendship could have bloomed. However short lived frienship is better than hostility. Friendship is welcomed to visit anytime.

Edited by The world needs you, 30 May 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#3    White Crane Feather

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:09 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 30 May 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

*snip*
I suspect you will be dealing with a lot of unnecessary escalations

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons, 31 May 2013 - 10:33 AM.
removed wall of text quote

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#4    pantodragon

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 30 May 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

This story could also be seen as a moral fable. Except in this recanting you are the salesperson and we are you. This may reveal why others are least likely to accept what you, in fact what we all, have to say to each other.
..............................................

We form alliances against "the other". How long until that itself is recognized as a crime against friendship? Support the friendship foundation (fictional) and let us turn to each other with open ears and hearts. Of course if you had listened to her and told her you could not but also asked her if she was willing to allow you change the topic and have her listen to you friendship could have bloomed. However short lived frienship is better than hostility. Friendship is welcomed to visit anytime.

No, friendship is not always best.  Life and the human mind are rather more complicated than that.  Sometimes  it is best to express anger.  I knew a fellow who I thought I was getting on well with until one day he exploded in my face (actually, this was in the context of a writers' group and I was not the offender that had caused his anger).  It turned out that he had been angered 18 months ago but had failed to express his anger and it had been bubbling away all that time till he could no longer supress it.  Having expressed his anger, the group was able to take action to accomodate him such that the causes of his anger were removed.  When a person is like that, to express friendship when they feel anger is very damaging to themselves and to their relationships.  The anger, once expressed, clears the air and allows wrongs to be righted.


#5    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 04:30 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 30 May 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

A young woman from the charity Erskine has just knocked at my door.  The encounter went something like this:

Her opening gambit: “Hello, how are you?”

I nodded, but did not reply --- thinks: Who are you?  You are a total stranger knocking at my door --- none of your damned business how I am.  Anyway, this false friendliness is a sales technique: it is an attempt to draw me into a conversation, to lower my defences, thus making me more susceptible to parting with my money.

Next she stated: “I’m not trying to sell you anything”.

Again, I did not reply --- thinks: Yeah, right, I’ve heard that one before.  And YOU are a liar.  You ARE here to sell me something.  You’re here to sell your charity to me; to emotionally manipulate me into giving you money.

She then gave me a rather long spiel about the charity: who it is trying to help and why.  This was accompanied by a claim that the charity is looking for doorstep donations because, due to the recession, businesses aren’t as generous as they once were --- more emotional manipulation.

I listened politely --- thinks: God, I wish she’d hurry up, it’s bl**dy freezing standing here with the door open.

Having completed the sales pitch, she finally she gets to the point: “Would I be prepared to give “as little as” £2 per month to Erskine, starting in July?”

“No”, I replied.

She asked if my answer was always going to be “no” or if it was “no” only AFTER I’d heard her spiel.

I said it was the former.

Geez!!!  Well!!!  I’ve never yet heard the like!  The woman instantly jumped down my throat!  “Why didn’t you tell me sooner?” she demanded aggressively.  She continued in this belligerent fashion, accusing me of wasting her time and of not giving her feedback on her sales technique (of, course, she did not use the phrase “sales technique”).

When I responded with “You’ve got a damned nerve accusing ME of wasting YOUR time!” she became even more aggressive.  All I could do was shut the door on her.

(I wanted to say more, to really let rip, but these aggressive sales techniques are deliberately designed to put you on the defensive --- she knew where I lived, but I didn’t know her from Tom, Dick or Harry; what repercussions was I risking by saying what I really wanted to say? ---  and so I reined myself in.)

The whole experience begs the following question:  How long is it going to be before it is an offence not to answer one’s door to sales people?

Think I’m joking?  Well, go on, have your wee laugh.  Then have a think about it…………

If you are old enough, you will remember a time when there were no, or very few, door-to-door salesmen.  They were not approved of.  In those days a householder’s home was his castle.  If a pushy salesman came to the door, you could safely send him away with a flea in his ear.  But business was persistent; it changed the moral landscape; it changed people’s perspective; it changed people’s habits.  Where formerly people had objected to door-to-door salesmen they learned to find them acceptable.

The same happened with junk mail.  Where formerly people had objected to junk mail, the persistence of business changed people’s habits, changed the moral landscape such that junk mail is now accepted.

Now business has used the same change-the-moral-landscape techniques to persuade people to accept telephone sales calls.

And then we come to charity doing door-to-door collections.  Ten years ago, five years ago even, the behaviour of the young woman I met today would not have been accepted.  She would not have dared to be so aggressive.

Today, however, one has fewer and fewer rights in one’s own home.  This is because we are currently undergoing a changing moral landscape.  Charity has taken the moral high ground and business is persuading that there is a moral obligation to answer one’s door when charity calls (charity is just another business, of course).  Thus, while I have no right to waste the young woman’s time, she has a right to be knocking on my door.  Furthermore, she has a right to take me to task if I fail to behave in the desired  manner.  More generally, business has a right to send you junk mail, but you have no right to object to junk mail; business has a right to make unsolicited sales phone calls to your home, but you have no right to object to these calls.

Once the tables have been turned, once business has changed the moral landscape, then it can change the law.

How long, then, will it be before it is an offence not to open one’s door when business calls?

I like to play with them.

I'll see if I can keep them talking at the door or on the phone for half an hour then say no. Its funny when they realise they spent all their time for nothing.


#6    Purplos

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 04:43 PM

How did one bad salesperson's temper tantrum turn into you not having the right to waste her time?  The fact that she got angry and behaved badly didn't infringe upon any rights. lol

Getting angry about this type of thing mystifies me. If you knew what she was doing and weren't interested, it would be kinder to say "Excuse me. I'm not interested. Have a nice day." and close the door.  Then whatever she does after the fact is none of your concern.

You can say the same thing after she's done her spiel. If she wants to stand on your porch yelling, let her. If she gets violent, damages property or won't leave, call the police.

Why make it some big thing?

Quote

I like to play with them.

I'll see if I can keep them talking at the door or on the phone for half an hour then say no. Its funny when they realise they spent all their time for nothing.

And this is why they get angry.

You do realize they are just normal people trying to earn a living, right? They're not "the great evil sales demons!" or something.

What's so hard about being considerate no matter how someone else acts?

Edited by Purplos, 01 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.

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#7    Beany

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:43 PM

When a stranger knocks on my door wanting to sell me something I say as quickly as possible, with a smile, no, thank you, there are other charities I donate to, but good luck. Last time the Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door I told them I was a witch/Wiccan, and they quickly backed down onto the street and scurried away clutching their bibles and throwing terrified looks over their shoulders at me. I haven't seen any since; I must be on their list.


#8    Beany

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:54 AM

View PostPurplos, on 01 June 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

How did one bad salesperson's temper tantrum turn into you not having the right to waste her time?  The fact that she got angry and behaved badly didn't infringe upon any rights. lol

Getting angry about this type of thing mystifies me. If you knew what she was doing and weren't interested, it would be kinder to say "Excuse me. I'm not interested. Have a nice day." and close the door.  Then whatever she does after the fact is none of your concern.

You can say the same thing after she's done her spiel. If she wants to stand on your porch yelling, let her. If she gets violent, damages property or won't leave, call the police.

Why make it some big thing?



And this is why they get angry.

You do realize they are just normal people trying to earn a living, right? They're not "the great evil sales demons!" or something.

What's so hard about being considerate no matter how someone else acts?
It's his evil twin, Giant Killer Bee, that makes him do in. Every now & then mine comes out to play, too.


#9    pantodragon

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostPurplos, on 01 June 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

How did one bad salesperson's temper tantrum turn into you not having the right to waste her time?  The fact that she got angry and behaved badly didn't infringe upon any rights. lol

................................................................

And this is why they get angry.

You do realize they are just normal people trying to earn a living, right? They're not "the great evil sales demons!" or something.

What's so hard about being considerate no matter how someone else acts?

Oh what's the use!  I'm just off to flush myself down the loo!  Maybe like in the film Shawshank Redemption, my action will not lead to my drowning, but to my escape and to an idyllic life on the Pacific coast of Mexico mending and chartering boats to lunatics like you!  And then I can feed them to the sharks and thus solve all the world's problems......

I mean, Purplos, really!!!!!!

Edited by pantodragon, 03 June 2013 - 04:14 PM.


#10    pantodragon

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostBeany, on 03 June 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

It's his evil twin, Giant Killer Bee, that makes him do in. Every now & then mine comes out to play, too.

No.  It is an awareness of the wrongness of the world, an awareness of being backed into a corner, an awareness of one's rights being removed, an awareness of stress and pressure being brought to bear by those in power to manipulate me to their will, an awareness of my life being slowly degarded and debased etc.  Are you people so spineless you don't want to fight back, don't want to stand up for your rights, don't have enough self-respect to hit back when somebody walks all over you.....?  The naswer to my question has to be "Yes"; otherwise the situation wouldn't exist and wouldn't be getting worse by the day.


#11    Michelle

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

What do you mean door-to-door salesmen were not approved of years ago? They would come with Bibles, Encyclopedias, vacuum cleaners, cleaning supplies, shoes, clothes, garden seeds, general household supplies, hardware, magazine subscriptions...not to mention the milk and bread delivery men would try and sell you anything else in the truck. Then the schools sent kids out selling candy bars and everything else under the sun. You don't see hardly any of that now.

Put a no soliciting sign on your door if you don't like it.

Edited by Michelle, 03 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.


#12    freetoroam

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostMichelle, on 03 June 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

What do you mean door-to-door salesmen were not approved of years ago? They would come with Bibles, Encyclopedias, vacuum cleaners, cleaning supplies, shoes, clothes, garden seeds, general household supplies, hardware, magazine subscriptions...not to mention the milk and bread delivery men would try and sell you anything else in the truck. Then the schools sent kids out selling candy bars and everything else under the sun. You don't see hardly any of that now.

Put a no soliciting sign on your door if you don't like it.
AH spot on!
We used to have the rag and bone man too, he would shout along the street at all hours.
We did have more salespeople at our doors years back.
What has changed is the numbers which is less and the things they sell now. We no longer have the items which can now be purchased cheaper from China and sold  through Poundland or the internet. Now we have the electricity or gas companies sending round agents trying to tell us we are getting ripped off by our existing supplier who happens to have been the ones we switched to last time because they said the same thing about this guys supplier.
The charities are now everywhere, the worse is at the end of the pay area at the supermarkets, there I am trying to pack while some spotted, vitamin A,B and C deficient  20 year old something person is shaking a plastic pot thing asking me to donate to their charity ....My general answer before they get past  " would you" is "can you not even notice that I am buying the special offers to save on the little money I have?"!!
So basically today, we have those who have nothing to sell us any more, but still want us to give them money!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#13    Michelle

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:45 PM

Those charities standing out everywhere are annoying, but at least they don't go door-to-door. The only people that visit people's homes around here are selling magazine subscriptions or home alarm systems. Anything else is done by junk mail or by phone, but we're on the no call list. Jehovah Witnesses don't even come around any more and I was always polite to them. Girl Scouts used to sell cookies door-to-door once a year and now I have to go looking for them. It's the only time you can get those darn cookies and they are good! lol

I had to look up what a rag and bone man was. I've never heard of anything like that in my life. You'd have to be cooking a big hunk of meat to get a bone worth using for anything...and not have a dog. I guess they were one of the original recyclers. :D


#14    Purplos

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

Quote

an awareness of stress and pressure being brought to bear by those in power to manipulate me to their will,

If a door-to-door salesman can do all that to you, perhaps some assertiveness training could help?

After your rant about flushing yourself down the loo, I really wonder what else you get so worked up over. I'm not trying to make this personal, but the level of upset over a sales person with bad manners is really a bit disturbing.

Embrace the impossible.

#15    Ryu

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:04 AM

Panto...would it have killed you to simply say, right off the bat, that you are not interested then close the door?
No one said you had to stand there freezing your tootsies off. Instead you chose to stand there and act like stone statue.

There is no law that states you have to listen to a sales person at your doorstep anymore than you have to listen to a telephone solicitor.

When the phone rings and it is a solicitor I politely but firmly tell them I am not interested and I hang up! End of story. Same with door-to-door salespeople or religious peddlers. Say "No, thanks. Have a nice day" then close the door.





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