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CA health insur. rates to rise 64%-146%


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#16    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 31 May 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Yes!
As a matter of fact i am!
Why should i forfeit my earnings to give to people who couldnt be bothered to get an education and or a skill and go forth and earn their own way through life?
why should i have sat through 4 years of college to help support a person who decided High School wasnt worth the time or effort?

Education doesn't = your wealth. If it did, we wouldn't have people coming out of degrees in UK to go into dead end, low paid jobs.

Poor people pay taxes too. Or are you one of these people who think that you support everybody on benefits?

I don't fancy paying taxes for wars I don't believe in but I don't get to pick and choose...neither should you be able to.

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#17    Capt Amerika

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Britain's healthcare system is ranked (vastly) above America's by the World Health Organisation. There's good and bad in everything but sorry to say British healthcare does rank above American. That's a cold hard fact.


Really?  Cold hard fact or just your opinion?

"So, how is it that the population most confident that it will receive treatment of the highest possible standard, featuring the latest medical advances, actually has the worst survival rates in precisely those diseases that require the most up-to-date treatments?
One explanation is ignorance. The average Briton or Swede is unlikely to know that the five-year survival rate for colorectal cancer is 51.6% in Britain but 59.8% in Sweden, or that the 30-day fatality rates for myocardial infarction in those two countries are 6.3% and 2.9%, respectively. (The figures for the United States are 65.5% and 5.1%.) By contrast, the average Briton knows that if he suffers a heart attack, he will be taken to the hospital and connected to a lot of machines, from which he concludes that he is having the best possible treatment.
In my youth, I often heard the refrain that the NHS was "the envy of the world," and people in Britain are still inclined to believe that, even though they probably have never met anyone who envied the NHS and, indeed, probably know Continental Europeans residing in Britain who hurry home as soon as they require medical treatment, horrified by the prospect of subjecting themselves to a British hospital."


http://articles.lati...system-20120808


#18    Capt Amerika

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Education doesn't = your wealth. If it did, we wouldn't have people coming out of degrees in UK to go into dead end, low paid jobs.

Poor people pay taxes too. Or are you one of these people who think that you support everybody on benefits?

I don't fancy paying taxes for wars I don't believe in but I don't get to pick and choose...neither should you be able to.
IN America more than 40% of the "poor" dont pay a single red cent towards Federal or State income taxes.
They get every bit of it back.
So tell me how the middle class and upper class are NOT the ones paying their way?
So that doesnt wash with me as them paying their fair share towards medical coverage too.

And as far as education, unless youre one of the folks who gets their degree in "Liberal Arts or Basket weaving", the degree pays off.
I was one of the lower middle class folks that went back to school and got a degree one and two classes at a time while i worked and i doubled my annual income by doing so.


#19    Capt Amerika

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:41 PM

and as we get closer the hits keep coming......
By time anyone attempts to use this they will be paying the vast majority of their paychecks to the insurance companies.

http://www.foxnews.c...nsurance-rates/


#20    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 31 May 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

IN America more than 40% of the "poor" dont pay a single red cent towards Federal or State income taxes.
They get every bit of it back.
So tell me how the middle class and upper class are NOT the ones paying their way?
So that doesnt wash with me as them paying their fair share towards medical coverage too.

And as far as education, unless youre one of the folks who gets their degree in "Liberal Arts or Basket weaving", the degree pays off.
I was one of the lower middle class folks that went back to school and got a degree one and two classes at a time while i worked and i doubled my annual income by doing so.

To get every bit of it back would suggest they do pay tax but get it back to help them live. Is this correct? Or have you botched? Because if they're getting back what they already paid in, they're funding themselves, not you, and you'd only be mad that you don't get your taxes back. I suspect you wrongly made a statement though, since it doesn't make sense...

I know plenty of people who took highly scientific/technological degrees and found it hard to find work when they came out of their degree. How old are you? You seem to be under the impression it's all rosy in the world and anybody who is poor, has only themselves to blame. The poor didn't run the banks into the ground. The poor didn't cut thousands of jobs. The poor didn't tell your Presidents to invade every country they could, running up more and more debt.

If you want your say on what tax goes on, run for President. That's why we elect officials, is it not? So they make decisions based on what they think is best for us. I have no problem knowing that I am helping the poor get the healthcare they need but then again...I'm not a selfish **** nor do I assume everybody in poverty put themselves there. Yeah...everyone just decides to be poor. Man, you're brainwashed with conservative propaganda.

Go Obamacare. Go anti-guns while we're at it. The middle ages are over, America...time to join the rest of the world in the modern day and age.

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 31 May 2013 - 03:45 PM.

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#21    Capt Amerika

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

To get every bit of it back would suggest they do pay tax but get it back to help them live. Is this correct? Or have you botched? Because if they're getting back what they already paid in, they're funding themselves, not you, and you'd only be mad that you don't get your taxes back. I suspect you wrongly made a statement though, since it doesn't make sense...

I know plenty of people who took highly scientific/technological degrees and found it hard to find work when they came out of their degree. How old are you? You seem to be under the impression it's all rosy in the world and anybody who is poor, has only themselves to blame. The poor didn't run the banks into the ground. The poor didn't cut thousands of jobs. The poor didn't tell your Presidents to invade every country they could, running up more and more debt.

If you want your say on what tax goes on, run for President. That's why we elect officials, is it not? So they make decisions based on what they think is best for us. I have no problem knowing that I am helping the poor get the healthcare they need but then again...I'm not a selfish **** nor do I assume everybody in poverty put themselves there. Yeah...everyone just decides to be poor. Man, you're brainwashed with conservative propaganda.

Go Obamacare. Go anti-guns while we're at it. The middle ages are over, America...time to join the rest of the world in the modern day and age.

Keep your socialistic views in England and all will be well.
Which actually brings up an even better point.  Why is it even any of your business what we do in America?
Why do you feel you should have any say in our country or how its run?
I never saw anyone chastising your nation for having to wait 20 minutes for cops with guns to show up at a place where a soldier was being hacked to death.
you deal with your mess we will deal with ours.

Edited by Capt Amerika, 31 May 2013 - 04:24 PM.


#22    Kowalski

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:47 PM

View Postand then, on 31 May 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Actually, Spike, the "single payer" option that was defeated was the equivalent of NHS - or so I'm told.  This kind of plan is what Obama wants and by accepting this monstrously complex health care deal he knew he could guarantee it's failure and then have "single payer". I worked as a MRI technologist for a decade so I know a little about the field.  The system definitely needs radical change but forcing middle class people into bankruptcy so that poor people can have (substandard) coverage makes no sense to me.  And no offense intended to our British friends here at UM but didn't I see Eldorado posting a story about 11 hundred people STARVING TO DEATH in government hospitals?  This seems to say that your system is massively understaffed at the least.  I cannot believe that UK healthcare workers are less competent or compassionate than American healthcare workers.  So the only other option I see is that they simply have too large a patient load.  It boggles the mind that a hospital bound person could be so ignored for long enough to die of starvation - there must be more to the story...

Yep. That's exactly it.....


View PostDark_Grey, on 31 May 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Being dependent on government handouts is a scary position to be in..

Because most people aren't gonna bite the hand that feeds them.....

"You bit the hand Marty! YOU BIT THE HAND!"
LOL. :)


#23    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 31 May 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Keep your socialistic views in England and all will be well.
Which actually brings up an even better point.  Why is it even any of your business what we do in America?
Why do you feel you should have any say in our country or how its run?
I never saw anyone chastising your nation for having to wait 20 minutes for cops with guns to show up at a place where a soldier was being hacked to death.
you deal with your mess we will deal with ours.

LOL! This is funny because an American friend called Britain a socialist state to me recently and I just found it hilarious! They clearly had been fed propaganda and didn't understand what socialism actually is. Americans tend to be the most brain washed people on the planet. If your favourite party tells you left is right, you believe it.

I wasn't aware I wasn't allowed to comment on other countries and their (imo) ****ed up way of life? Where were your airforce when "men in caves" were flying planes into buildings? Cheap shots go both ways my friend...

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 31 May 2013 - 04:51 PM.

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#24    Sweetpumper

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Where were your airforce when "men in caves" were flying planes into buildings?

Oh God, please don't read this, skyeagle.

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#25    and then

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 31 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Britain's healthcare system is ranked (vastly) above America's by the World Health Organisation. There's good and bad in everything but sorry to say British healthcare does rank above American. That's a cold hard fact.

I highly doubt Obamacare would bankrupt anyone. Are you trying to say poor people shouldn't be entitled to healthcare so your middle class families can have the swimming pool and 3 cars in the drive?
Man I was middle class all my life until I became disabled from back, neck surgeries and pulmonary embolisms.  I NEVER could afford the stuff you are talking about.  I paid the basic bills - insurances for health, car home and the mortgage (one) and tried to save for the future.  The vast number of Americans live from one pay check to the next and know little security.  The addition of even a few hundred dollars in extra insurance costs will cause them to fail.  I realize you have a vision of my country that fits your worldview and you have no intention of being dissuaded so I won't bother.  But black and white thinking will get you into trouble in time.  The poor get healthcare in this  country.  The biggest problem for them is the loss of dignity that goes with that provision.  I know about THAT...too.  What Obama care attempts to do is codify the rules so that everyone seems the same and can maintain their dignity -I have no problem with that at all.  But from the real world the lesson is that when 500 people need services and the government is only going to pay an amount that enables services for 50...well...someone is going to go wanting ... PERIOD.   Every service a hospital provides has costs attached on multiple levels.  As with most things, labor (human element) is the most expensive, so the first place to cut costs is with payroll.  Now you've got fewer people working longer, sometimes MUCH longer hours to handle the numbers of patients that need services.  Mistakes go up, disaffection with the work goes up and eventually the only people who will do the healthcare work is the "least common denominator".  
My congratulations on the success of NHS.  I'm 52 and I have NEVER......EVER... heard of a patient in a US hospital, not a SINGLE patient...starving to death.  So take your statistics with a grain of salt, friend.  My intention was not to insult Britain or her healthcare workers but to point out that conditions dictate the level of care that is possible to provide.

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#26    Rafterman

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:58 PM

Obamacare is going to be an unmitigated disaster when it goes into full effect in 2014.  It is going to doom Obama's legacy, the Democrat chances in 2014, and probably Hillary's chances in 2016.

And the really sad thing is that the folks caught in the middle of this nightmare who can least afford it are going to bear most of the pain - you know, the group that was supposed to have been helped the most by Obamacare.

Mark my words.

Edited by Rafterman, 31 May 2013 - 05:59 PM.

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#27    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:04 PM

View Postand then, on 31 May 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Man I was middle class all my life until I became disabled from back, neck surgeries and pulmonary embolisms.  I NEVER could afford the stuff you are talking about.  I paid the basic bills - insurances for health, car home and the mortgage (one) and tried to save for the future.  The vast number of Americans live from one pay check to the next and know little security.  The addition of even a few hundred dollars in extra insurance costs will cause them to fail.  I realize you have a vision of my country that fits your worldview and you have no intention of being dissuaded so I won't bother.  But black and white thinking will get you into trouble in time.  The poor get healthcare in this  country.  The biggest problem for them is the loss of dignity that goes with that provision.  I know about THAT...too.  What Obama care attempts to do is codify the rules so that everyone seems the same and can maintain their dignity -I have no problem with that at all.  But from the real world the lesson is that when 500 people need services and the government is only going to pay an amount that enables services for 50...well...someone is going to go wanting ... PERIOD.   Every service a hospital provides has costs attached on multiple levels.  As with most things, labor (human element) is the most expensive, so the first place to cut costs is with payroll.  Now you've got fewer people working longer, sometimes MUCH longer hours to handle the numbers of patients that need services.  Mistakes go up, disaffection with the work goes up and eventually the only people who will do the healthcare work is the "least common denominator".  
My congratulations on the success of NHS.  I'm 52 and I have NEVER......EVER... heard of a patient in a US hospital, not a SINGLE patient...starving to death.  So take your statistics with a grain of salt, friend.  My intention was not to insult Britain or her healthcare workers but to point out that conditions dictate the level of care that is possible to provide.

So I read through all of that that the WHO is not a credible source and just lies about America's healthcare, apparently for no reason whatsoever. Got it.

I wish Americans could see faults in their country...that's the trouble with being brought up to believe America really is the pinnacle of western civilisation.

Whatever system you adopt, you have to pay for your healthcare, no? The NHS doesn't give free healthcare, most people have contributed to it at one time or another in their life. If they fall on stony ground and are on benefits, what kinda country says "no" because of their lack of wealth? I had an American friend tell me they couldn't afford see a doctor because they had no insurance and couldn't afford it. They couldn't see a doctor because they couldn't afford it. - What don't you see wrong with that?

The British healthcare system is one of the most successful in the world because we look after our own. You can bring up all the negatives **** you've heard all you like but you only hear what gets reported. I'm sure American healthcare is just perfect and lovely as it is...

"Mary McClinton, a beloved 69-year-old social worker and mother of four, checked into Virginia Mason Medical Center in Seattle for a relatively complex but routine procedure to treat a brain aneurysm. Doctors planned to inject her with a contrast dye to help them guide a stent into her brain, via a catheter in her leg, to repair the aneurysm. Instead, they injected her with an antiseptic — a topical cleaning agent — that had been stored in an unlabeled container on the same tray as the dye. The antiseptic blocked the flow of blood in her leg, which swelled to twice its normal size. Within hours, McClinton's blood pressure dropped, her kidneys failed and she suffered a stroke."

Still calling British medical care more "incompetent" than America?

Doesn't seem so black and white to me...

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 31 May 2013 - 06:05 PM.

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#28    F3SS

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:39 PM

Oh great. We have another 18 year old British liberal who thinks he knows best where my hard earned money should go.


#29    Merc14

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:39 PM

Single payer was always the plan and we will end up there and it will be a nightmare that will bankrupt the country.  It was never about fixing healthcare, it is about power.  If it was about health care there was afew things thhey could've done that would've cost nothing to at least try and they refused to do so.  What single payer buys them is democrats permanently in office because the threat will then be "The republicans want to take away your health care!!"  Can you imagine?  Look at what these corrupt mionsters have wrought in just 4 years and imagine this country after 20 years of endless democrat control.  That is their dream and the middle class' nightmare because the middle class will cease to exist and a basic tenet of Alinsky's plan for changing America to a socialist state.

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#30    F3SS

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:51 PM

It will be the middle class who suffers the most because of this monstrosity. Know-it-all asked why the middle class should have 3 cars and a pool while some dude I never met can't see a doctor. Well, when I have to start paying my own insurance by force while I am already paying for some other dudes circumstances I will soon be able to afford neither. As that keeps happening to the middle class it becomes smaller since they'll be joining the lower class and as the lower class grows larger the burden on the shrinking middle class becomes larger until they're all gone and eventually there will only be an upper and lower class. It's absurd that I'm demonized for wanting or having 3 cars and a pool. If you care so much go help starving kids in Africa. We having plenty of help for starving kids here already and our poor don't live in huts. Our poor have cell phones and flat screen tv's. Oh the horror.

How about you take care of yourself and take care of your family. I'd rather do that than help some dude I never met who in all likelyhood did make his own bad decisions. If we all just took care of our own we wouldn't need to be so damn reliant on 'society'.





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