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Why do people get so mad when questioned ?


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#121    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 27 July 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

People get offended all the time; I usually look for some way to read what they post in a way that doesn't sound like that.  It's no skin off my nose if they are offended or not, but if it is my objetive to reach them I need to work around it.

Why do they get offended?  Ego I suppose, but it doesn't matter.
yes, ego I think.  But sometimes genuine concern for others . WE all have the choice in how we respond, emotionally or intellectually. No one can make me angry or hurt or offended unless i chose to be. Sometimes i MIGHT chose to be, because there are very good reasons to do so, but it is ALWAYS my choice.

  Heck, one of the first sayings drummed into me as a toddler was "words can never hurt you" and they never have. They just give an inkling of the character of the person speaking them, which can sometimes be quite advantageous in real life.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#122    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:39 PM

View PostHawkin, on 29 July 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

It's not just religion that people believe or disbelieve in. There are people out there that don't think the Apollo moon landings
or even the Holocaust ever happened. Even if these events are more recent then the bible.  It comes down to what a person
chooses to believe in based on what they hear or read about from a source.
Often because in chosing that belief they are confirming other sptrongly held beliefs or prejudices. eg the people who believe 9/11 was a govt plot to gain  greatercontrol over american citizens would already be predisposed to see their govt in that light.

Thank god for Jack Reacher.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#123    scowl

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:39 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 July 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

While  completelytruthful, I was being facetious for exactly the reasons you outline.

If you were being "completely truthful" then answer my questions. If you can't answer them then admit that you were lying about having your telepathic powers verified under scientific conditions.

This is why I rarely read anything you write. You make bold statements and hope no one challenges you on them. When someone does, you retreat leaving a long trail of defensive verbiage, the whole time claiming you don't care what anybody thinks.


#124    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Now compare your answers to the two bits of this post.

A person without paranormal abilities knows what I am doing in the same way that the blind person knows what the car driver is doing.  While a blind person cannot drive, they can understand and appreciate being driven.  And my point is, that if telepathy is not  possible between humans, then I should NEVER  ever (not once) be able to directly connect to what is in anothers persons mind and know it as clealry as they know it themsleves.

As I've said multiple times, the issue is that you are just assuming what I am disputing, that you have telepathy.  It is entirely unsurprising that you and many others claim that they can directly connect to another's mind and 'know it as clearly as they know it themselves', however you are measuring that.  It is unsurprising that people believe that they are able to directly connect to another's mind.  It's like you and I exist in two different worlds sometimes, like you don't live in a world where many people make certain claims of special or unusual powers or experiences that when put to a proper test, do not pan out.  Ever.

Quote

The argument tha telepathy is a normal ttribute of humnaity is not measurable by how many times it does not work, but if it works at all.

Your kind of telepathy, without physical interaction, has never been shown to work to date nor has it ever been convincingly demonstrated.

Quote

I often find things for students which other students have "stolen" and hidden. Sometimes it is a joke sometimes serious and often it is a game we play to see if can know where the object is located. They also hide themselves in a bulding at lunch time and i have to walk in and locate where they are by their thoughts.  I always do

Great!  You now have a testable claim, there is no excuse for you not to get it tested, the demonstration of the existence of these abilities will be a boon for several areas of scientific research and should be able to assist mental health providers with the care they give.  Do you have science teachers at your school?  I recommend they contact a university to have a proper blind test conducted of your abilities, one where you personally are not involved in evaluating how accurate your abilities are.  Let me know how that goes, although I'll probably see it as it should be the top news story if you can actually do what you claim.

Quote

I've never "lost" anything in the last 50 years of my life, because I always know subconsciously where it went to, and just look into my subconscious to locate it. This includes a time i had 500 dollars sitting on the back seat of our 4 wd. I drove 50 ks home to find out that 200 dollars had blown out the window which had been open about 6 inches to give our dog some air. I "knew " where the notes were and although i had to drive back 40 of the fifty ks and it was dark by then, I located 3 of the four notes in small bushes along a stretch of road about 50 metres in length, but one escaped me. It had blown into a neighbouring paddock behind a barbed wire fence. It wasnt lost I just couldnt get to it, and wrote it off to experience.

I find it difficult to swallow this story as I can think of no valid rational reason why someone would be so careless to just leave 500 dollars in cash just sitting on the backseat of their car, with their dog no less, who then forgets about that when they open up the window.  What, you don't have pockets?  But thanks for laying to rest your earlier statements about what a highly-trained mind you possess, it appears that it is not very reliable after all and is susceptible to doing the stupid and forgetful things that we all do from time to time.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#125    White Crane Feather

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 29 July 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:



As I've said multiple times, the issue is that you are just assuming what I am disputing, that you have telepathy.  It is entirely unsurprising that you and many others claim that they can directly connect to another's mind and 'know it as clearly as they know it themselves', however you are measuring that.  It is unsurprising that people believe that they are able to directly connect to another's mind.  It's like you and I exist in two different worlds sometimes, like you don't live in a world where many people make certain claims of special or unusual powers or experiences that when put to a proper test, do not pan out.  Ever.



Your kind of telepathy, without physical interaction, has never been shown to work to date nor has it ever been convincingly demonstrated.



Great!  You now have a testable claim, there is no excuse for you not to get it tested, the demonstration of the existence of these abilities will be a boon for several areas of scientific research and should be able to assist mental health providers with the care they give.  Do you have science teachers at your school?  I recommend they contact a university to have a proper blind test conducted of your abilities, one where you personally are not involved in evaluating how accurate your abilities are.  Let me know how that goes, although I'll probably see it as it should be the top news story if you can actually do what you claim.



I find it difficult to swallow this story as I can think of no valid rational reason why someone would be so careless to just leave 500 dollars in cash just sitting on the backseat of their car, with their dog no less, who then forgets about that when they open up the window.  What, you don't have pockets?  But thanks for laying to rest your earlier statements about what a highly-trained mind you possess, it appears that it is not very reliable after all and is susceptible to doing the stupid and forgetful things that we all do from time to time.
**** happens. I had $900 in my hand to give to an employee because I was out of checks. I was thinking and thumbing the seal where the window goes down into the door. I was lost in thought then I noticed the $900 was gone. I got out looked for it, in the ground, the car, for the life of me I couldn't figure out where it went. I can't tell you how frustrated I was. Latter that night after classes I sat down to meditate about it. I could see the money in a dark place surrounded by mechanical looking parts. I zoomed out and it was inside my car door. Which made sense because while thinking I was thumbing the rubber seams with my window open. The next morning I took the door apart and sure enough the money was scattered around deep inside the door.

How's that for an anecdote. I may be the only person on earth that has lost $900 down a car door, I think MWs anecdote is more than plausible.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#126    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:11 PM

The one time in my life when I was desperate and hungry (money had been sent to me but would take a few days to clear) I found a fifty dollars in the gutter, just enough to squeak me by.  I have never before or since found any sort of money.

What do I make of this?  Luck -- coincidence -- chance.  There is no basis for my drawing any other sort of conclusion.


#127    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:17 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 01 August 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

How's that for an anecdote. I may be the only person on earth that has lost $900 down a car door, I think MWs anecdote is more than plausible.

I entirely agree with you White Crane, I agree that this likely happened.  The problem with it and my point was that this episode doesn't jibe well with other statements he's made concerning how highly trained his mind is and how little heed should be paid to basic cognitive science that demonstrates the numerous cognitive and perceptive biases and errors that all brains are prone to.  Except his when he believes he's using telepathic powers, the existence of which are supported merely by anecdote.

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#128    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:36 PM

If a person wants to believe they have special powers of this sort, they will believe it, and will constantly notice examples to reinforce it (of course failing to notice those that don't).


#129    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:58 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 August 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

What do I make of this?  Luck -- coincidence -- chance.  There is no basis for my drawing any other sort of conclusion.

Agreed.  Sure, there are of course occurrences and coincidences that are very unusual and improbable, but most people, including myself, are not that good at just using their intuition to come up with realistic probabilities.  I've had strange coincidences occur also, but I try to keep in mind that even if it was a one in a million coincidence, given a million 'events' in my life chances are good that a very unlikely coincidence will actually occur.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#130    Mr Walker

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:31 AM

View Postscowl, on 29 July 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

If you were being "completely truthful" then answer my questions. If you can't answer them then admit that you were lying about having your telepathic powers verified under scientific conditions.

This is why I rarely read anything you write. You make bold statements and hope no one challenges you on them. When someone does, you retreat leaving a long trail of defensive verbiage, the whole time claiming you don't care what anybody thinks.

I answered your questions completely  truthfully and also went on to explain the problems with applying scientific methods in the field, to paranormal abilities. I know that eventually science will discover the nature of these abilities and be able to enhance repicate and  make them work  more consistently.

At rhe moment it is like people using wilow bark for fever. They knew it worked but science was required  to discover why it worked, and how to refine aspirin to do the job more efficiently.

Verbiage is another word for explanation but you may not like the explanations you hear.

My bold statements are always as true as i can make them, allowing for the limits my own experiential knowldege education and intelligence. There is no point in me lying about anything and it is against the moality taught to me as a child to do so. I have had telepathic powers tested by scientists in laboratories with  just as much success as in the field, BUT  this is rare. I  have been "in the field" for  over 60 years. I have not spent more than about 24 hours in total in a laboratory. How much can you expect to occur within that 24 hours. And how can a scientist know how I know things, or measure the accuracy of some things, even in a laboratory Unless they have scientific evidences and understanding, then the results I achieve are not credible anyway in scientific terms

In my experience some scientists  are more open than others and conclude these are real but inexplicable abilities. One actually put it in those terms and explained that, over the years he had encountered a number of people with similar abilities. Others simply claim all such results are coincidence, even when they lie well outside of statistical probability..

My brain scans show a very unusual 'growth" on my frontal lobe which the specialists say is benign but unexplained. Does that have anything to do with anything ? How would I know'

And I am certainly NOT going to let someone operate to find out. I dont go near major cities  By which i mean, maybe once in 20 years outside of work and medical commitments. Its been over 6 years since  I went to one for any reason.

.As i said I am diagnosed by the best relavant experts in Australia as an exceptionally well grounded and functional human being. Given that, and the way i use and integrate abilities into my every day life, I have NO need to prove anything to anybody.

My past history demonstrates clear and actual difficulties and dangers, if and when one does come to the notice of authorities.

That is natural given the nature of some such abilities. Just how DO you explain you have witnessed something while many miles from the scene? ANd how do you thnk YOU would react if you were a police officer faced with such a story.


I KNOW what happens. If you witness something, then the police officer will have to believe you were there physically.. So you are immediately both a liar, and hence a potential suspect, in their eyes. How could i know where a stolen object was located, without having some connection to, or knowledge of, the crime?

In real life, and living such things, reality is a lot more complex than the wishful thinking some people display about such  matters. I have been a school teacher in  govt schools for forty years and lived in the same country community for over 30.

While this gives me some good opportunitys  to validate and experiment,  using multiple  participants/witnesses, both adult and teenage, I have to be very careful.  A certain degree of sanity, as well as probity and morality, is STILL required of teachers, by their communities. Fortunately, given the nature of the job, there is a lower expectation of teacher sanity, than of their morality and probity.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#131    Mr Walker

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 29 July 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

As I've said multiple times, the issue is that you are just assuming what I am disputing, that you have telepathy.  It is entirely unsurprising that you and many others claim that they can directly connect to another's mind and 'know it as clearly as they know it themselves', however you are measuring that.  It is unsurprising that people believe that they are able to directly connect to another's mind.  It's like you and I exist in two different worlds sometimes, like you don't live in a world where many people make certain claims of special or unusual powers or experiences that when put to a proper test, do not pan out.  Ever.



Your kind of telepathy, without physical interaction, has never been shown to work to date nor has it ever been convincingly demonstrated.



Great!  You now have a testable claim, there is no excuse for you not to get it tested, the demonstration of the existence of these abilities will be a boon for several areas of scientific research and should be able to assist mental health providers with the care they give.  Do you have science teachers at your school?  I recommend they contact a university to have a proper blind test conducted of your abilities, one where you personally are not involved in evaluating how accurate your abilities are.  Let me know how that goes, although I'll probably see it as it should be the top news story if you can actually do what you claim.



I find it difficult to swallow this story as I can think of no valid rational reason why someone would be so careless to just leave 500 dollars in cash just sitting on the backseat of their car, with their dog no less, who then forgets about that when they open up the window.  What, you don't have pockets?  But thanks for laying to rest your earlier statements about what a highly-trained mind you possess, it appears that it is not very reliable after all and is susceptible to doing the stupid and forgetful things that we all do from time to time.
I claim  i can see also How do I KNOW i can see visually?  Via indpendent confirmation

if i can "see" what is in another perosons mind clearly precisely and accurately, on many occasions and have it confirmed  indpendently, then  what would YOU call it. The only other logical explantionos coincidence but this is statistically less probable than telepathy'
I Hve already done  as you suggest with science teachers. I actually found lost objects for two of them over a period of time which started this  process of testing off.

The tests i talk about include such ones but also in the psychology depts of Flinders  and  Adelaide university.

At adelaide the professor said that my abilities were genuine but inexplicable given current science and he had come across a few such cases in his career. At Finders the comments tended to the conclusion that this was a very interesting statistical anomaly. But both places concluded that  I was very intelligent, highly  perceptive, very well grounded in reality, (because i could talk to them in their own terms and language probably) and highly functional as a human being. I already knew all those things but it was nice to have it  independently confirmed.
:clap:
I use my car to travel over a thousand kilometers every week and it is used for everything. There is a constant pile of stuff on the back seat; invoices, receipts, school work, library books,  newspapers, all the mail form our post office box, tutorial lessons for students, library books from  a number of libraries, shopping bags and drink bottles etc.

Its  a typical teachers car to quote my car salesman.  When you work 60 or so hours a week you don't have much tine to fuss over your car. It has to be functional  economical and reliable. I wash it once a month or two in the car wash and clean it out every  six months or so. I take the dog and the wife out three or four times a week for a walk or lunch etc.

Normally I carry my money in a wallet, but this time the money was for a particular purpose, and I placed it with the bill or what ever it was for. Tne dog has its own section in the back of the fourwheel drive. In fact the onlty reason we bought a four wheel drive was for the damn dog.

Any way i opened the windows up a litlle bit (3-4 inches) using the automatic opener from the driver's position so the dog could get some fresh air.

I was aware of the money in the back, but despite an excellent physics education, I underestimated the venturi effect of Bernoulli's principle. This is not stupid, nor did i forget the money was there. Arguably it is something which was highly unlikely to occur, but obviously it did.

  I honestly  still cant see how it could suck notes up over 18 inches in the air and out the top of a window, but it did.. I have  since had a single large newspaper page float up from the seat and out the window  when the windows were open about 8 inches, so it is theoretically possible.

ANy way, however it happened, the point is I "knew" exactly where it was, along a 30 mile highway and found all but one note.

To make a point. This is the sort of "verbiage" some get upset at, but it does set the scene and explain the circumstances. Unless you saw the state of my car you might disbelieve me, but as soon as you did all would become credible.

Edited by Mr Walker, 02 August 2013 - 11:09 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#132    Einsteinium

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:05 PM

Perhaps some people are not looking for truth, or new perspectives, but rather they only want to hear things that reaffirm their existing world view. Anything else is to them, an attack on their world view, someone trying to force them out of the comfortable box they live in. And like any person who feels like they are being forced out of their home, they get upset and defensive.


#133    MrBene

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 July 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Often because in chosing that belief they are confirming other sptrongly held beliefs or prejudices. eg the people who believe 9/11 was a govt plot to gain  greatercontrol over american citizens would already be predisposed to see their govt in that light.

Or to have a good reason to go to the other side of the world, kill thousands of innocent people and gain control over oil rigs and plants. Only crazy people could believe this.

Edited by MrBene, 03 August 2013 - 06:08 AM.


#134    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 09:30 AM

View PostMrBene, on 03 August 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

[/size]
Or to have a good reason to go to the other side of the world, kill thousands of innocent people and gain control over oil rigs and plants. Only crazy people could believe this.

There is no connection between 9 /11 and oil. The muslim attacks on western life, of which 9 /11 is only the biggest among hundreds, represent two things. A real hatred of the western material lifestyle combined with some historical enmity to christianity, and  long held geopolitical enmity caused by european/western interference in the middle east. But this goes back far before oil to british coloniaism in the 17 and 1800s.

Like wise, western and american influences in the middle east are only very partly based on oil, and far more significantly on longer term geopolitical realties including trade routes, spheres of influence, the historical containment of soviet russia, and the  desire to reduce the influence of states which are antithetical to western democracy and freedoms.

The first gulf war did not begin unitl gaddaffi invaded a smaller nation, saudi arabia, which had defence treaties with western powers. To fail to react would have been the same as the appeasement policy which led to ww2.

The second gulf war was more problematic but would not have been required if the coalition had finished of saddam in the first war The problem was, that to do so would have created a power vacuum which would have been readily filled by iran,, a state which had  not long before waged a long and terrible war with iraq and which, unlike iraq was a fundamentailst islamic state, and a long time avowed enemy of israel and america.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#135    fullywired

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 02 August 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

.

The tests i talk about include such ones but also in the psychology depts of Flinders  and  Adelaide university.

At adelaide the professor said that my abilities were genuine but inexplicable given current science and he had come across a few such cases in his career. At Finders the comments tended to the conclusion that this was a very interesting statistical anomaly. But both places concluded that  I was very intelligent, highly  perceptive, very well grounded in reality, (because i could talk to them in their own terms and language probably) and highly functional as a human being. I already knew all those things but it was nice to have it  independently confirmed.
:clap:
.
.

Normally I carry my money in a wallet, but this time the money was for a particular purpose, and I placed it with the bill or what ever it was for. Tne dog has its own section in the back of the fourwheel drive. In fact the onlty reason we bought a four wheel drive was for the damn dog.

Any way i opened the windows up a litlle bit (3-4 inches) using the automatic opener from the driver's position so the dog could get some fresh air.

I was aware of the money in the back, but despite an excellent physics education, I underestimated the venturi effect of Bernoulli's principle. This is not stupid, nor did i forget the money was there. Arguably it is something which was highly unlikely to occur, but obviously it did.

  I honestly  still cant see how it could suck notes up over 18 inches in the air and out the top of a window, but it did.. I have  since had a single large newspaper page float up from the seat and out the window  when the windows were open about 8 inches, so it is theoretically possible.

ANy way, however it happened, the point is I "knew" exactly where it was, along a 30 mile highway and found all but one note.

.
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At adelaide the professor said that my abilities were genuine but inexplicable given current science and he had come across a few such cases in his career. At Finders the comments tended to the conclusion that this was a very interesting statistical anomaly. But both places concluded that  I was very intelligent, highly  perceptive, very well grounded in reality, (because i could talk to them in their own terms and language probably) and highly functional as a human being. I already knew all those things but it was nice to have it  independently confirmed.
:clap:
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This comes as no surprise to me :w00t:

fullywired

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ANy way, however it happened, the point is I "knew" exactly where it was, along a 30 mile highway and found all but one note.
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I suspect that the same angel that put the money in your wallet last time  was in attendance again ,as to the missing note, the angel may have kept it for a tip

fullywired :whistle: :whistle:

Edited by fullywired, 03 August 2013 - 03:17 PM.

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)




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