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Why do we study history?


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#16    psyche101

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:23 AM

View Postpantodragon, on 13 June 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Apart from being very rude.......you are like a secretary dis-satisfied with the filing system.  If you were in charge of a rainforest, you would have all the trees of the same kind shifted to the one location, all the animals and birds and insects confined to neat little areas--- I hope you can understand that that would destroy the rainforest.  That attitude will also destroy the creative and rich world of human communication.  This is what you are doing to your own mind too, by this attitude.

The only problem I see with the post is that the second link does not seem to be yours unless you have changed your avatar and nick. Other than that, I fail to see what was rude, it is a valid point, some people are simply anti-learning and such was indeed illustrated at the link. It the sort of thing we should be embarrassed by, members of our species trying to get others to move backwards with them.
And the first link is indeed pretty much saying the same thing.

I am wondering if you understand the point of science? It s not the repository of knowledge, it is the pursuit of it, and indeed, some things are not quite right, and eventually corrected when better information becomes available. The evolution of Man, and the Flores Hominid discovery both show that science is flexible and moves with the available information. And debates and corrects information.

What more do you want? If you have an alternate ideal, then submit it. Thats the great thing about real science that fringe does not offer.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#17    S2F

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:20 AM

The next best thing to seeing where you are going is to see where you've been. Navigation (metaphorically speaking) can be worked out either way. When the way forward is cloudy then history becomes much more important.

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#18    tipsy_munchkin

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

The only problem I see with the post is that the second link does not seem to be yours unless you have changed your avatar and nick. Other than that, I fail to see what was rude, it is a valid point, some people are simply anti-learning and such was indeed illustrated at the link. It the sort of thing we should be embarrassed by, members of our species trying to get others to move backwards with them.
And the first link is indeed pretty much saying the same thing.

I am wondering if you understand the point of science? It s not the repository of knowledge, it is the pursuit of it, and indeed, some things are not quite right, and eventually corrected when better information becomes available. The evolution of Man, and the Flores Hominid discovery both show that science is flexible and moves with the available information. And debates and corrects information.

What more do you want? If you have an alternate ideal, then submit it. Thats the great thing about real science that fringe does not offer.

The second link was simply because it was recent and I realized I may have got mixed up initially and was thinking of that thread not pantos one. I decided to post it in the end as those interested in this topic would also find the views expressed there.

Panto I am not policing you. I was curious as to your reasoning more specifically I was curious what new point you were intending to make that had not been covered previously. I am sorry if you consider that rude it is not intended as such.

For the record I have a very creative and extremely disorganized mind. I most certainly would not order trees in the way you suggest and find that comment a little bizarre. Studying something as complex as history involves embracing a degree of chaos, it is not simple and straight forward. Learning to organize and understand diverse sources of information and find conclusions from it is an extremely useful life skill. This is one reason many study subjects like history. Exercising such skills can in fact enhance creativity. Knowledge and imagination are not at odds with each other. If you see such little value in history why all these attacks on the views of historians? I am honestly just trying to understand where you are coming from with this.

    

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#19    pantodragon

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

View Posttipsy_munchkin, on 10 June 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

http://www.unexplain...y I may have been thinking of this thread also for those interested.

Panto i understand each of your threads posed a different question but I do feel the rhetoric of the OP is basically getting to the same point. ie. academics don't know what they are talking about.


I regret my earlier consideration.  I regret my earlier kindness. I referred to you, too kindly by far, as a secretary.  I was wrong.  That is your disguise.  (Don’t think for one minute that pantodragon is fooled by your pretty avatar.)  The reality is that you are a NEEDLER.  You like nothing better than to stick your needle under the skin of your victims to manipulate them, getting them to play up to your nasty ministrations.  There are many techniques that people use to make trouble, and yours is to needle.

Unfortunately, your attempts at needling laughable.  You are an amateur.  

I was brought up with needlers.  My grandmother was a needler.  You couldn’t hold a candle to her.  Think of the film Crocodile Dundee.  Think of Dundee in New York when a mugger pulls a knife on him.  Dundee looks at the man and, pulling an enormous, curved gutting knife from his belt says “That’s not a knife.  THIS is a knife.”  My grandmother was Dundee, you the mugger.

Your needles are those soft, plastic, puny items found in kiddies’ sewing kits for sewing plastic shapes with holes already conveniently punched.  But my grandmother, now HER needles meant business.  Her needles were long and very, very sharp.  They were made of steel.  Best quality steel, not the trifling, insignificant, bendy, flimsy weapon you wield.

And my grandmother, now SHE could needle.  She manipulated them with expert precision.  She was a real sadist: she loved nothing better than to use her needling to humiliate, wound, frighten and finally reduce her grandchildren to tears; to sow the seeds of discontent, set one person against another.  She was only happy when she could see pain, suffering and fear in the eyes of her victims.  I can still see the sly, satisfied smirk on her face, the tongue licking her lips like a predator tasting blood, when she saw that she had hit her target, had wounded, had metaphorically drawn blood.   Do you also lick your lips when your needling gets results?  Do you also smile that sly, satisfied smirk?

But my grandmother taught me many valuable lessons.  I learned at a very tender age to recognise needlers.  And I learned at a very tender age to deal with them.   My skin does not come with holes conveniently punched for your convenience.  A dragon’s skin, however, is made of scales.

You are a minnow and I have swum with sharks.


#20    Yes_Man

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 15 June 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

I regret my earlier consideration.  I regret my earlier kindness. I referred to you, too kindly by far, as a secretary.  I was wrong.  That is your disguise.  (Don’t think for one minute that pantodragon is fooled by your pretty avatar.)  The reality is that you are a NEEDLER.  You like nothing better than to stick your needle under the skin of your victims to manipulate them, getting them to play up to your nasty ministrations.  There are many techniques that people use to make trouble, and yours is to needle.

Unfortunately, your attempts at needling laughable.  You are an amateur.  

I was brought up with needlers.  My grandmother was a needler.  You couldn’t hold a candle to her.  Think of the film Crocodile Dundee.  Think of Dundee in New York when a mugger pulls a knife on him.  Dundee looks at the man and, pulling an enormous, curved gutting knife from his belt says “That’s not a knife.  THIS is a knife.”  My grandmother was Dundee, you the mugger.

Your needles are those soft, plastic, puny items found in kiddies’ sewing kits for sewing plastic shapes with holes already conveniently punched.  But my grandmother, now HER needles meant business.  Her needles were long and very, very sharp.  They were made of steel.  Best quality steel, not the trifling, insignificant, bendy, flimsy weapon you wield.

And my grandmother, now SHE could needle.  She manipulated them with expert precision.  She was a real sadist: she loved nothing better than to use her needling to humiliate, wound, frighten and finally reduce her grandchildren to tears; to sow the seeds of discontent, set one person against another.  She was only happy when she could see pain, suffering and fear in the eyes of her victims.  I can still see the sly, satisfied smirk on her face, the tongue licking her lips like a predator tasting blood, when she saw that she had hit her target, had wounded, had metaphorically drawn blood.   Do you also lick your lips when your needling gets results?  Do you also smile that sly, satisfied smirk?

But my grandmother taught me many valuable lessons.  I learned at a very tender age to recognise needlers.  And I learned at a very tender age to deal with them.   My skin does not come with holes conveniently punched for your convenience.  A dragon’s skin, however, is made of scales.

You are a minnow and I have swum with sharks.
You are learning history by doing Needle work.

Also I have slept in a room with cockroaches, scorpions, big spiders, ants that bite and mosquito that bite you non stop and other bugs that carry bad stuff.
So yeah sharks are nothing, you know nothing Pantodragon


#21    tipsy_munchkin

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:40 PM

I am not sure why you are taking such offence to me. I have said nothing offensive I was merely trying to understand your argument. I am hoping you are willing to discuss your topic and not simply call others names for disagreeing.

Are you suggesting that history is not worth studying because there are some academics you disagree with? That seems to be the suggestion of the OP. It is important to be aware that many historians disagree with each other and analysis of others arguments and what evidence they are using is an important part of developing our understanding of history. It would be a shame to simply not study it just because opinions differ on certain details.

    

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#22    Odds

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:03 AM

View Postpantodragon, on 10 June 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Yes, this thing about curiosity --- so society supports a large number of people and allows them to wander round the world satisfying their own curiosity and writing books about it instead of the individuals whose taxes provide that support using the money to allow THEM to tripse round the world and satisfy their OWN curiosity.  It seems to me that the world of acdemic historians stifles and blocks the curiosity of individuals.
[

Who exactly is stopping you from doing the same? You say to satisfy their own curiosity, sure, they wouldn't be in the profession if that wasn't the case, so that point is moot. But it certainly doesn't hurt to know about our past.

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#23    pantodragon

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:53 PM

View PostOdds, on 17 June 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

[

Who exactly is stopping you from doing the same? You say to satisfy their own curiosity, sure, they wouldn't be in the profession if that wasn't the case, so that point is moot. But it certainly doesn't hurt to know about our past.

Money.





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