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US soldiers refuse mission


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#1    vimjams

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:21 AM

You've probably seen it on the news I know I did (first item on the BBC and CH4)...Is this the beginning of a break down of discipline in US forces...Or just a one off? Whatever...British troops ought to be brought out of Iraq now

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101604X.shtml

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#2    Independent1

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:58 AM

QUOTE(vimjams @ Oct 15 2004, 10:21 PM)
You've probably seen it on the news I know I did (first item on the BBC and CH4)...Is this the beginning of a break down of discipline in US forces...Or just a one off? Whatever...British troops ought to be brought out of Iraq now

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101604X.shtml

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Yes, and we know how much the BBC loves the Iraq war.

If these soldiers did refuse their mission, then they could be tried for crimes as serious as treason.  If you join the military, you do what your commanding officer tells you to do.  Period.  End of issue.


#3    Fluffybunny

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 03:20 AM

Back in world war 2 it was within the rights of a commander to shoot a soldier that willfully disregards a direct order during wartime.

The military does not mess around with this for good reason.

When you join, you agree to follow orders. Like it or not, you have to follow and order unless it is unlawful by military standards(i.e. physical torture).

When you don't follow an order you will have hell to pay. If you are lucky, they will just kick you out with a dishonorable discharge. Often there is jailtime involved. Jailtime in the military is now a walk in the park like regular prison either...16 hours a day of hard labor, usually making gravel out of boulders...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#4    The Russian Hare

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 03:37 AM

It's a reserve supply unit. Discipline is not the same as it would be in a line unit, or an active duty unit. Sounds like an isolated incident to me. It happens.

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#5    vimjams

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 04:27 AM


QUOTE
Yes, and we know how much the BBC loves the Iraq war.


Even if that were true (which it isn't) the BBC would be reflecting the majority anti war opinions of the British people.  

QUOTE
Sounds like an isolated incident to me. It happens.


This particular incident may be isolated for the simple fact that it has (first time) been brought to public attention by mainstream news media...But

http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/print_a.../11/10_400.html
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101104Z.shtml
http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/10...ies/08local.htm

Just a few links which show the beginnings of the ensuing breakdown of both morale and then discipline festering within US forces in Iraq.
More reason for Britain to withdraw its troops.

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#6    Fluffybunny

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 04:55 AM

I was in Iraq and Kuwait in 1990/91. Many of the friends I made there are still in the Army, now as commanders in most cases.

Morale is low amongst many of the troops. I have heard this from folks that are in command of hundreds of people in and around Baghdad...they really do have an idea of what is going on with the soldiers. The live together, eat together, and fight together...morale is a pretty easy thing to pickup on.

In other threads I have run into such resistance mentioning that morale is low with troops. It seems to be such a taboo subject. There seems to be a direct corrolation between the supporters of the war in Iraq, and the level of denial in the troop morale issue. Frustrating to say the least. Is it guilt? I don't know...

I find it odd that the folks that are the most gung-ho on the war seem to be in the most denial about the effects of said war on the soldiers we sent there to do the job.

I have had to do the job that they are doing now and it was horrible then. It sucks to have to leave your home, friends family, freedom, and safety behind.

Now, it is a long term issue; I was in and out of there in a matter of months. Now they are bogged down in a much worse situation without a clear ending in site. Many of the soldiers there have internet access and see that there are no WMD and terrorist links, and that is upsetting as well. I can understand morale issues now. Anyone who thinks that those guys and girls are still gung-ho about what they are doing are living in a fantasy world...Much like the photos of the flag draped coffins, the bush administration has done it's best to sanitize the information it lets out...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#7    Velikovsky

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 06:21 AM

Completely right Fluffy.
The troop morale has got to be bad right now. Between seeing friends die to the long tours they're having to pull. I know if I was there how poor my morale would be.
But there's still no excuse to disobey an order. We have a volunteer force, nobody will ever make you sign up. The recruiter may follow you around like a lost puppy dog for awhile but they'll never force you.
You agreed to go now do your job and there will be a small percentage of soldiers who will cause problems like this. It's to be expected and it's nothing command can't handle. However I almost feel bad for the soldier because you know that the commander is going to be forced to make an example of them.

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#8    Lottie

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 11:22 AM

The US military has confirmed it is investigating allegations that members of a reserve US army unit in Iraq refused to undertake a convoy mission.  

The unit involved is responsible for transporting food, water and fuel for US-led forces, a top US official said.

Up to 19 soldiers from the unit based near Talil in southern Iraq allegedly failed to carry out their orders.  

The news came amid reports that UK troops could be sent to back up the US in some of Iraq's most volatile areas.

The UK Ministry of Defence said on Friday that discussions were under way but no decision had been taken as yet.

It is believed the troops could be sent from Basra in southern Iraq to an area south of Baghdad, and might - controversially - be under US command.  

In other developments in Iraq:

A mortar explodes outside a Baghdad hospital killing one member of staff and injuring several others
A wave of attacks hits at least five Christian churches in the capital Baghdad
A US soldier dies of wounds sustained in a car bomb attack on a convoy in the northern city of Mosul on Friday
The UN says Thursday's bombings in Baghdad's Green Zone have underlined its concern about security in Iraq.



'Raise hell'

Families of the US reservists being investigated are reported to have said the troops considered the mission too dangerous.  
  
                                         A small number of the soldiers involved chose to express their concerns in an inappropriate manner causing a temporary breakdown in discipline                    
            
                                At least some have been quoted as saying they refused the mission because their vehicles were in poor condition and they did not have an adequate armed escort.  

Teresa Hill of Dothan, Alabama, told the Associated Press news agency that her daughter Amber McClenny who serves in the platoon had phoned on Thursday morning to ask her to help.

"This is a real, real big emergency," Ms McClenny said. "I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell."

"We had broken-down trucks, non-armoured vehicles and ... we were carrying contaminated fuel.  

"They are holding us against our will. We are now prisoners," she added.

'Isolated incident'

But according to a senior US military official, the unit involved had been ordered to carry out what is known as a maintenance stand-down.  

The official said the soldiers involved were not under arrest or detained and he described the incident as isolated.  

However, a US-led coalition spokesman in Baghdad told AP that a few of the troops had chosen to express their concerns in an "inappropriate manner" and caused a temporary breakdown in discipline.

The BBC's Nick Childs in the Pentagon says US convoy missions have been a main target of attacks by Iraqi insurgents, but are also vital to the US-led forces - so any breach of military discipline here is likely to be taken seriously.
Source


#9    vimjams

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 05:40 PM

Lottie: Are we competing on this topic?

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Edited by vimjams, 16 October 2004 - 05:40 PM.

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