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Aliens etc...


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#1    JesusFreakGS

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Posted 15 August 2001 - 10:16 AM

Hi all! Is there anyone in this forum that is skeptical about the existence of other life in the universe? If so, please tell me! I would like to know if anyone has reasons to NOT believe in Aliens... eveyone I have met so far in life that is skeptical about aliens, really didn't have any reasons to be skeptical about it. Or, is that what skepticism is all about? Choosing not to believe something just for the heck of it... Just trying to broaden my horizon!
                              Adam


#2    Magikman

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Posted 15 August 2001 - 10:13 PM

Adam,

   You are actually asking for an answer to 2 very different questions, in my opinion. One  has already been proven to be true to an extent and one which is too non-specific to answer with any amount of certainty. This is how you state your first question;

  ” Is there anyone in this forum that is skeptical about the existence of other life in the universe? “

  Although there is not 100% agreement among scientists(no big surprise, right?), it is believed the Mars meteorite discovered several years ago contained signs of life from the planet. Microscopic life to be sure, but life none-the-less. There is also the Drake equation that examines the theoretical possibility of life forming in the universe. Here is a link that details the equation;

http://www.cogs.susx...98/web/simpson/

 I doubt there are many people who will deny the existence of life elsewhere in the universe unless their religious faith demands it of them. Of course, what is not stated is your ‘perception’ of life. The possibility of microscopic or even unintelligent life is enormous. Those percentages begin to fall drastically if your ‘perception’ of life includes ‘intelligence’. Many scientists are of the opinion that our life evolved from a unique set of circumstances that, even when applied to the vastness of the universe, still makes our life form extremely, if not singularly, rare. Again, this is all just theoretical speculation, severly limited as it is by our technological advances and knowledge regarding the universe.

 This is your second question/statement;

  ” If so, please tell me! I would like to know if anyone has reasons to NOT believe in Aliens.”

  Again, you fail to specify your definition of  ‘alien’. There has been a recent discovery made by high altitude balloon’s sampling earth’s upper atmosphere that returned with a living organism not of earthly origin. Would that not make it alien? Or was your question addressing belief in the more popular ‘little green or gray’ men? If it was, then yes, I am one of those ‘skeptics’. However, I don’t doubt their presence on earth “just for the heck of it”. When I was around your age I was a fanatical believer of UFO’s and aliens. Back then I was just as gullible and naïve as any teenager, but I grew older and became substantially more aware of the ‘realities’ of life and human nature in general. My doubt is still tempered by limited knowledge and the occasional ‘unexplained’ event, photograph, video, etc., yet credibility demands something more substantial than what has yet been provided. Here is the ‘reason’ for my viewpoint; The incredible vastness of the universe makes the possibility for ‘intelligent’ life to exist highly probable. Conversely, the same premise must also be taken into account to appreciate how incredibly impossible it would be for some other alien race to locate and visit the Earth. No matter how much older and more advanced these races are, the distances involved are unbelievable. Consider how difficult it would be to locate a specific grain of sand in the Sahara desert. Now multiply that by millions or billions of light years. No matter what amount of science fictiony devices your imagination can render to improve the odds, or flawed reasoning that implies our ignorance of highly sophisticated propulsion or space travel methods, this does not make for ‘reality’. It is only conjecture and supposition, and there is no credibility in either argument.

MAGIKMAN

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. ~ Carl Sagan

"...man has an irrepressible tendency to read meaning into the buzzing confusion of sights and sounds impinging on his senses; and where no agreed meaning can be found, he will provide it out of his own imagination." ~ Arthur Koestler

#3    JesusFreakGS

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Posted 16 August 2001 - 04:31 AM

Thanks for that Magik! To clarify my use of the word "alien", I meant other intelligent life. I guess everyone can or SHOULD agree that there's a possibility of their existence. But the more experienced person, as yourself, would tend to agree with the possibility but not automatically believe in the undeniable existence... am I right?
                               Adam


#4    Magikman

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Posted 16 August 2001 - 06:31 AM

Adam,

     Despite 'appearances' and/or 'assumptions', I am not so arrogant as to deny the actual existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. As my premise stated, the utter immensity of the universe to me justifies that opinion. While I hold that certainty in my mind, that doesn't make it an undeniable fact. That can only be had with physical evidence. Contrast this however, with my belief that there is only the minutest of possibilities that the earth has been visited by 'aliens', and this covers the entire life span of the planet, not just the last 50 or so years. Unless Lori's claim of imminent 'intergalactic contact' occurs in the next couple years, I believe you will come to the same conclusion, eventually.

MAGIKMAN

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. ~ Carl Sagan

"...man has an irrepressible tendency to read meaning into the buzzing confusion of sights and sounds impinging on his senses; and where no agreed meaning can be found, he will provide it out of his own imagination." ~ Arthur Koestler

#5    JesusFreakGS

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Posted 16 August 2001 - 05:44 PM

Yeah, from what we know about the universe, you could say that it is very unlikely aliens ever visited Earth. But then, who knows what kind of technology they have? They may have something that helps them FIND planets with life on them... who knows?
                         Adam


#6    pixiedoxen

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Posted 17 August 2001 - 12:10 AM

In my opinion although I believe that there are exsistense of other life forms in the universe and other planets, I do have questions.  I have not come across any hard proven proof that surrounds the truth behind "Aliens" or any other kind of life.  I'm sure there are really people who have had experiences with them, but.. then again thats them!  The only reason that I do believe that there are other life forms besides us is the fact that  the universe is limitless.  I dont know how big the universe is, I dont know what lies beyond our planet, heck I dont even know what lies in my backyard.  What I am getting at is I dont know every single detail of what earth hides, produces, and sustains.  How should I know what lies outside earth.  I just question a lot. ???

Pixie

#7    SpaceyKC

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Posted 17 August 2001 - 05:55 PM

     MAGIKMAN,


   You stated, "No matter how much older and more advanced these races are, the distances involved are unbelievable".  How about if(just a not-so-deep thought)they were highly advanced in telepathy, and remote viewing? Of course, if that were true, they wouldn't need all those UFOs being spotted everywhere, would they? ::)

      NORA

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         found no remedy for the worst of them all --- the apathy of human beings."
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#8    Magikman

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Posted 17 August 2001 - 08:11 PM

Nora,

    I’m not entirely sure as to the nature of your question. Telepathy is regarded as an extrasensory ability to communicate non-verbally, or “mind to mind thought transference”. What sort of relationship does this ability have with ‘aliens’ visiting the earth? Please clarify your point. If you are vaguely suggesting what I think you are, this is the definition of a light-year: a unit of length in astronomy equal to the distance that light travels in one year in a vacuum or about 5.88 trillion miles. Whereas I don’t believe anyone has successfully tested the speed at which an individuals thoughts can travel, do you understand the enormity of the problem?

  While I’m loath to even discuss the ‘credibility’ of remote viewing, the same argument given above still applies. How does anyone  (alien or human) come about this ‘instantaneous’ ability to find intelligent life in the vastness of the universe? It may interest you to know that several human ‘remote viewers’ claim to have encountered aliens on other planets using their abilities. In my opinion it’s only common sense and the ludicrous claims of these clowns that keeps anyone from taking them seriously. For that matter, as an example, despite the classical absurdity of Lori’s ‘Atlantis’ scenario, how would you prove her wrong?  Do you see my point?  Anyone with an overly active imagination or flawed perception of reality can ‘remote view’ many things. Yet none of these superbly talented people have been capable of passing the simplest of tests, ‘remote viewing’ and correctly describing an event under controlled and/or supervised conditions.

  If you feel comfortable applying imagined abilities and capabilities to ‘aliens’, that’s your prerogative. Despite the fictional aspect of many suggestions, they are difficult to refute because of our own limited knowledge. My certainty relates to the lack of concrete evidence, although, again, it is somewhat tempered by those rare examples of the truly ‘unexplained’.

MAGIKMAN

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. ~ Carl Sagan

"...man has an irrepressible tendency to read meaning into the buzzing confusion of sights and sounds impinging on his senses; and where no agreed meaning can be found, he will provide it out of his own imagination." ~ Arthur Koestler

#9    SpaceyKC

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Posted 18 August 2001 - 04:17 PM

        Magikman,
     I shouldn't have included telepathy with the main point I was making, which was about remote viewing.  I was referring to the possibility of the ALIENS being able to remote view(since they are supposedly more advanced).  Just a 'what if' kind of thought!



NORA

"Science may have found a cure for most evils;  but it has
         found no remedy for the worst of them all --- the apathy of human beings."
                                                     Helen Keller

#10    Great Big Sea

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Posted 15 December 2003 - 01:52 AM

JesusFreakGS to answer your question once I believed in aliens and UFO's but years after (I belive maybe five or so years ago) I watched a show a man allegedlly got abducted by aliens and he said they couldn't breath our air. So they had to use robots!  disgust.gif That got me thinking.
I'm a skeptic now! So if I didn't watch it would I still believe? Yeah maybe- no? Likely. But then he had a lie dector test- I remember not being happy that he passed his test!  sleep.gif The show was on the Space Channel (Canada). Strange story I guess. But  I don't belive their is life on Mars or Jupiter or Mercury. And what is that face deal on Mars? Photoshop? IPhoto? Hmmmm  

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#11    moe eubleck

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 05:26 PM

wow cuda. You went back in time with this post. 2 years ago.  laugh.gif  

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#12    crosswarrior

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 11:57 PM

    I am extemely sceptical about there being Intelligent beings in outer space. There has been no clear evidence that there is. And all the accounts that I have heard or seen seem hardly credible. The evidence often appears to be an apparent hoax. It is possible that space is colonized by other beings,but I am not going to blindly believe the man who shouts on T.V. that he was abducted by aliens.

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#13    Nethius

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 01:50 PM

i say that there is some sort of intelligent life out there.  When I say intelligent, it could be as smart as us, more so, or less, like an animal or something.

now with that said, i think it is very likely that there is "more so" intelligent life out there.  just think, thousands of years is only a blink of the eye of the universe.  so if life started out one thousand or more years before our life began, then that life should be way more advanced then us.

thinking that aliens come to visit us is a little harder to believe.  i would like to think that they do, just makes the universe that much more interesting, but it is true that the "proof" is not really there.

just think, if us humans are still on the earth a thousand years from now, how much more advanced we will be...  and maybe by that time, we will be the aliens visiting other planets!!!  think about it!




#14    Novo

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 05:40 PM


This world will have ended by then. If you truly think this planet full  of egotistical politician's , poisened food , and misinformed masses can avoid imploding on itself for another thousand year's then I truly feel sorry for you.

Edited by Magikman, 18 December 2003 - 06:13 PM.

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#15    moe eubleck

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 08:46 PM

  laugh.gif

a tad bit cynical are we .........?




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