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'Why I Converted to Islam'


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#46    Perfection

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:47 AM

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Adam was the tree of life

I believe that is the information that will unite all religions. Man is the tree of life & is rooted in God & simply has to look within & he will know God. It's not something that is without in a church or temple however majestic those places are. Each person Is The Tree of Life & do not have to convert or perform any religious observances to remain with & be accepted totally by God forever.

However we look without & not within & so we require symbolic things like religions to constantly remind us that there is a god at the end of it all.

Most all people only know about the larger world through watching the news & so they may never know the world as it really is, & live in a much more stressful & divided world as a result.

Edited by Perfection, 06 June 2013 - 02:55 AM.


#47    redhen

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM

View PostRatte, on 06 June 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

What is more important to you? Your image in the eyes of other people or your safety?

So moderate Muslims should not protest militant Masjids and Mosques because they will incur the threat of harm from these very same militant Muslims? So when exactly should people stand up for a moral cause if at all?

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Frankly? I don't. Because people would misunderstand and violence would happen. Further fostering hate.

So not only would moderate Muslims incur threats of violence from militant Muslims, their protests against them will also be misinterpreted by non-Muslim Americans? Right, you got any more wild excuses and implausible predictions why moderate Muslims shouldn't stand up and be counted?

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I dunno about you, but when someone punches me, I punch back.

Ok, now it seems like you justifying violence from extremist Muslims against a hypothetical protest from moderate Muslims.

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It's all the same. There are people who do bad things everywhere, in all walks of life. My point is that you can not judge a whole based on some individuals.

I never said all Muslims are violent.

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If foreigners were to judge the United States by me, they might think "Well, they're all ugly and have weird hobbies, but they're pretty nice. Could use a breath mint." But I am not all Americans.

That's a lame straw man argument.

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I never said I support or agree with their beliefs, laws or policies. I just said and implied that there is no need for racism and hatred.

I agree. This has nothing to do with racism, there are plenty of murderous non-Arab fanatical Muslims. I think you are confused.

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And okay, maybe you won't find any with murderous intent there, but I'm speaking in general terms.

But you're the one who keeps telling me not to make wide sweeping, generalized judgements against a population segment.

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People need to be educated, not looked down upon. Dang.

Indeed. I'm not disparaging you, but I would suggest a more thorough study of history and religion.
edit: actually, before studying history and religion, I would recommend studying logic and reasoning first. Then you will be able to make cogent arguments. Just trying to be helpful here.

cheers

Edited by redhen, 06 June 2013 - 03:38 AM.


#48    Irrelevant

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostRatte, on 06 June 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

I rather like the idea of Communism. The idea is a great one, though something that can not be realistically carried out. Yes, North Korea will fall, but not because they are a bad guy and bad guys are always vanquished in the end, but rather because people can't keep their noses out of other people's business.

Also, if that implies destroying other religious documents, that would not be cool at all. There are some Hindu texts that are much older than the texts of other faiths and are very fun reads.


I'm not saying this to be rude, but; what?

Can you maybe separate this into paragraphs or organize it in a way that it is more easily understood?

its written like that for a reason..
if you look closer you will find the message, and its not about destruction of faiths..or to "attack" speek hate, vilify any religous Faith or order, to minimise any to justify a opinion.

and to those who do that should rember :the mesure they use can be the mesure used unto them. ( was the fate of the egypt soldiers  pusuing moses right?, was the atomic bomb right? was the battle of britan right?)    cont..theres three aspects with all this regarding Crime/Sin, (this is not a divine teaching but a earthly one) :
Crime, Prevention/Sentencing, Rehabilition. If a crime towards man ( like that before heaven) has occured then the Crime is acknowledged, then the purpose is to prevent it occuring again,/ this can be done by using the same mesure they used if they dont repent ( its called :crimes and prevention)  then the purpose is to rehabilitate the purpetrator of said crime. when that system breaks down there is injustice ( as justice has not occured or is continuing).

I have a simple message here , To proclaim the Lord of the second Advent, that is my mandate from Heaven, like a voice crying in the wilderness.

back to your question Ratte, on the page before you can see a teaching about the "Lampstands before the throne of God." you see this teaching, it  instructs that all faiths and there central figures are these ( although Jesus is the chief cornerstone), that includes Confucius ,Mohamad and others..these are the lampstands. given at diffrent times in diffrent regions, with jesus ,  The bible teaches that the Lord lit a light at his feet, there is some other  teaching in the bible regarding the lampstands.

My message is: these are all correct, God worked in all, However I proclaim the Lord of the second Advent, and it should be noted this is a new age.( im refering to the words here " until the end of the age" , those who have a ear) . My Lord Jesus forbid us telling his name or where he is from , so all i can do is leave a trail of bread crumbs and you have to find him yourself.. those who know the Parable of the fig tree know the time we live in ..they were also told to be watchful..its back at them now to do as such..Jesus also talks about that time ( this time) with a simple message and a warning " Lord Lord, have we done not manny wonders and cast out demons in your name/, and I will say to them in that time " Depart from me you workers of inequity"  this is the fate of those who attack The Lord of the Second Advent and his..they become anti-christ by definition..however it should be noted in luke 17 " He will suffer much and be REJECTED"

The Bible is a code book in part Ratte, Those who dont recognise that get stuck to the letter, trying to interpret meanings in the words but missing the message,  its important to see and hear beyond,( those who have a ear let them hear)  the more important aspect  is to capture the essence.

In regards to the coming of the son of Man:
The best verse for this is Luke 17, Mathew 24 has a Angel talking to the diciples and  asks: why look at the sky?, he will come as you saw him go,  ( that is born, grow, complete mission , assend to heaven), Jesus also refers to the lord of the second Advent as the spirit of truth.

one of my personal favorites is about the man who found a great tresure in a field, hid it again, sold all he had and bought that field!!!

we spoke Ratte, i have other matters to attend to now.


#49    third_eye

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:27 AM

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#50    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:29 AM

I would suggest a more ardent study of history and religion, and empire and war and militancy and tribalism and nationalism and socialism and racism and sexism and discrimination in all of its forms.  The day that every single one of us relieves ourselves of that one group that we've been taught to despise the most, the problem will still remain in our own.



"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#51    redhen

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:47 AM

View PostYamato, on 06 June 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

I would suggest a more ardent study of history and religion, and empire and war and militancy and tribalism and nationalism and socialism and racism and sexism and discrimination in all of its forms.

Agreed.


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The day that every single one of us relieves ourselves of that one group that we've been taught to despise the most, the problem will still remain in our own.

I don't despise or loathe Muslims, I never said any such thing. What I've been saying is that Islam can be a dangerous religion. It will continue to be a dangerous religion until it reforms itself (like most other religions) to come into line with modern ethics, i.e. abandon Bronze Age, violent teachings and laws.


#52    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:58 AM

View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Agreed.




I don't despise or loathe Muslims, I never said any such thing. What I've been saying is that Islam can be a dangerous religion. It will continue to be a dangerous religion until it reforms itself (like most other religions) to come into line with modern ethics, i.e. abandon Bronze Age, violent teachings and laws.
Any religion can be a dangerous religion.  Islam isn't the exception, and the reform that's needed is in the group-think mentality that make us terrible practitioners of our own groups we are indoctrinated by circumstance to prefer.  Either we assimilate into a homogenous collective so dull that nobody can complain, or we respect the individuality that sets each of us free.   Until then, we'll poke and prod at each other, confident that our ways are best.



"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#53    Ratte

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:04 AM

View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:



So moderate Muslims should not protest militant Masjids and Mosques because they will incur the threat of harm from these very same militant Muslims? So when exactly should people stand up for a moral cause if at all?



So not only would moderate Muslims incur threats of violence from militant Muslims, their protests against them will also be misinterpreted by non-Muslim Americans? Right, you got any more wild excuses and implausible predictions why moderate Muslims shouldn't stand up and be counted?
On this type of thing, I make my judgements based on personal experiences. I have had things thrown at me, gotten cuts and bruises from defending these people in school.

Also, the fear is of bigoted Americans, which I have plenty of experience with.


View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Ok, now it seems like you justifying violence from extremist Muslims against a hypothetical protest from moderate Muslims.
No, I am justifying ones right to defend themself. If a group of Muslims were to hold even a peaceful protest of an extremist group, it would set a lot of Americans into hysterics. First off, the ignorance of some of my fellow countrymen would cause a situation. Such as a riot or the police getting called. It would only disolve from there. The Muslims would be blamed for defending themselves.

View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

I never said all Muslims are violent.

Did I say you did? I have to go back and look for that one. My apologies.

View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

That's a lame straw man argument.



I agree. This has nothing to do with racism, there are plenty of murderous non-Arab fanatical Muslims. I think you are confused.

It is how a lot of us work, though. At least from what I have seen.

If it has nothing to do with racism, then why were there so many comments on the ABC News story calling Muslims t********* and s**********?

View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

But you're the one who keeps telling me not to make wide sweeping, generalized judgements against a population segment.

Perhaps I slipped up, however, I refer to all mankind. Humans, being capable of unspeakable acts of violence (and quite the opposite) regardless of religion or race.

View Postredhen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Indeed. I'm not disparaging you, but I would suggest a more thorough study of history and religion.

cheers
Then suggest it to the rest of the States, for as uneducated as I am, I am one of the few who care enough to look past what the news tells me and make judgements from my own personal experiences.

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#54    spud the mackem

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:16 AM

View PostRatte, on 05 June 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

This is exactly the kind of thing the OP was talking about. This amounts to little more than a thinly veiled insult, acting as if each Muslim is to blame for one decidedly small groups actions.

Not every Muslim takes what the fanatics have to say in stride. Or to heart. But I do know that, where I'm from, Muslims won't even try to defend themselves in fear of being attacked. I'm not a Muslim and I get attacked (mostly verbally, of course) for simply defending people.


Thanks! :)
This was not an attack on Muslims,but if you feel so strongly about defending people,start defending people who are attacked by Muslims,like innocent people of every denomination whose lives are shattered by suicide bombers in a shopping precinct,or car bombers, these fanatics dont care who they kill or injure,and if you defend them you are as bad as they are.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#55    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:39 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 06 June 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

This was not an attack on Muslims,but if you feel so strongly about defending people,start defending people who are attacked by Muslims,like innocent people of every denomination whose lives are shattered by suicide bombers in a shopping precinct,or car bombers, these fanatics dont care who they kill or injure,and if you defend them you are as bad as they are.
Defend people who are attacked by global hegemony sending massive military forces and government-corporate contracts to defend Sharia despots in Saudi Arabia and Zionists in Israel from secular Iraq.   The non-fanatics working for the state opened up the bomb bay doors and fired 120mms from the turrets and 5.56mms from the barrels but didn't commit suicide in the process.  So it's okay then (because the foreign hegemony isn't bombing your family or occupying your town) and oil was the motive not religion.  

It would have been Osama bin Laden defending his homeland from Saddam Hussein, not you and I.   But that wasn't allowed to happen and we made the history we asked for.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#56    Ratte

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:41 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 06 June 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

This was not an attack on Muslims,but if you feel so strongly about defending people,start defending people who are attacked by Muslims,like innocent people of every denomination whose lives are shattered by suicide bombers in a shopping precinct,or car bombers, these fanatics dont care who they kill or injure,and if you defend them you are as bad as they are.
I defend those who need it. I have said nothing about the radicals. Merely the people who practice the same religion in a non-violent way. They are accused of being radicals. I won't stand for it.

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#57    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:56 AM

I suppose the question, and I think it's a reasonable question, is why don't the enrmous majority of rational and reasonable Muslim people disown and disassociate themselves from the raving loonies? No one believes that (for instance) Wetboro Baptist Church speak for all Christians, everyone realises that they're nutcases, but why don't we see more of reasonable Mulslims distancing themselves from and ostracising the raving Preachers and the nuts who shout "God is Great!"? is it that the way that Islam is structured means that the Imams and Mullahs have so much dominance and authority that it's inconceivable for anyone to challenge them, however much they may harm the religion as a whole?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#58    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:31 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 06 June 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I suppose the question, and I think it's a reasonable question, is why don't the enrmous majority of rational and reasonable Muslim people disown and disassociate themselves from the raving loonies? No one believes that (for instance) Wetboro Baptist Church speak for all Christians, everyone realises that they're nutcases, but why don't we see more of reasonable Mulslims distancing themselves from and ostracising the raving Preachers and the nuts who shout "God is Great!"? is it that the way that Islam is structured means that the Imams and Mullahs have so much dominance and authority that it's inconceivable for anyone to challenge them, however much they may harm the religion as a whole?

Thank you for echoing my statements in the OP Colonel, but who said that the vast majority of Muslims don't disassociate from (what western media prefers to pay attention to in the world) religious-based violence and oppression (provided it's not Christian or Jewish violence and oppression). They do disassociate.  That's true of every Muslim I've ever met.   The ones I've met before repeatedly admitted their governments over there are crazy.  That's the word I heard most - "crazy".  And I believe they were telling me the truth.   I think most governments all over the world are crazy so it wasn't a stretch for me to believe them.  But living thousands of miles away from home is as disassociated as one can get.   What's rhetoric compared to that?  

If the question is, why don't Muslims (in countries we're propping up like Saudi Arabia) go out in public in front of cameras and protest Sharia law, it's probably because they're scared to death.  If someone organized a protest, how long would they be alive to do an interview?   Do at least a few particularly brave US/western journalists bother to travel across dangerous countries practicing Sharia-law and ask people what/why they think?  Christianne Amanpour has done extensive work risking her life to talk to people about violence as have other journalists from organizations like National Geographic.  However it's not Islam itself that's to blame, it's oppressive theocracies who impose their own laws on people in extreme and contradictory ways.

What's wrong with saying that God is great?  Do you think it's associated with terrorism and nuttery?   Terrorism and bad news are all the media pays attention to in the Middle East.  Not boring everyday Muslim life where they say "God is great" when their child wins a spelling bee, they find a parking spot on time, their sick relative returns from the hospital etc.   Their governments love to talk about and play God but they resemble God about as much as our governments that love to talk about freedom resemble freedom.  

The media generally focuses on violence and Middle East violence because there's enormous supplies of oil there.  But calling it Islamic is like calling Israel's violence Jewish if we're being consistent.   Unfortunately, political correctness >> being logical, so Israeli atrocities aren't the same thing, there's no language calling them "Jewish", in fact there's a media blackout and they're ignored.  

The western media also seems universally appalled that Muslims in the Middle East are anti-American, and bewildered as to why.   There is no interest in reporting what those reasons are, that would be branded as unpatriotic and could result in Americans reassessing their country's foreign policy.  A minor example, I was just accused of "justifying" the soldier beheading in the UK for linking to a video which included the entire message of the terrorist.  We're so cowed, reporting complete information that American people deserve to know has become taboo.  Whenever details emerge they are deliberately not reported.   3,000 Americans died on 9/11, the American people deserve to know why.

Edited by Yamato, 06 June 2013 - 10:56 AM.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#59    Jessica Christ

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:45 AM

View Postodas, on 05 June 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Regarding covering up we are mixing up religion and current social accepted behavior.
In covering up there is no or almost no difference between christianity, judaism and islam. Women in all three faiths are obligated to cover their hair.
With the time and with social attitudes covering up became more of a choice in all three faiths. Even now the majority of christian women cover their hair when they go to church, more in the eastern orthodox then in the western christianity but this also depends from where you are. Spain, italy, portugal are more likely to have women cover their hair then england, germany.
Nuns cover their hair full time, just as it is commended in the bible.
Muslim woman in islamic countries wear hijabs because of many reasons. Religious, social...
Muslim women in non islamic countries wear hijabs or not equaly because of religious and social reasons.
Many would say they are forced which is partly true in islamic countries, but what about hijabs where there is no force? It is called freedom of choice. Still, in this case, many muslim women opt for the hijab, because they chose to do so.
Look at the older and more religious christian women italy, portugal, spain..they all cover their hair all the time.

My question was based more on a Western outlook assuming this is where our dear convert from the OP is from. That it is becoming "more of a choice in all three faiths" to cover up in other parts of the world is welcomed.

The "older and more religious christian women italy, portugal, spain..they all cover their hair all the time," is very charming but also something the West has mainly discarded for a reason among the younger set and it has nothing to do with wanting to be "loose" "non virtuous" or "dressing in miniskirts". Someone can be just as faithful without such antique adornments.

View Postodas, on 05 June 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Well there are many many muslims who cover up.
Arabs have theirs, pakistanis their version, singapourians theirs, and then there are european muslims who have their had covered wearing either a white cap, simmilar to the jewish one, like the albanian muslims or the french cap, favoured by the bosnian older muslims. The variaty is huge.

What about Western Muslim men? When I see male converts covering up here then we are onto something. That only the women do so runs counter to Western values.

That other Muslim societies have their own rules and will change according to their own timeline is not in dispute. That here in the West it seems backward for women converts to cover up is something not being addressed.

View Postodas, on 05 June 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I was reading a report on islam in bosnia by a german journalist a few months ago.
At one point he was talking to a young bosnian muslim woman who descided to wear a hijab. He asked what her mother said about it since she herself does not wear one. She said her mothers words were why, you are not an old grandma yet.
I must say recently it is a kind of "in", a new fashion statement rather then a religous one in bosnia to have a hijab.

Love the Bosniaks. Glad to hear it is a "fashion statement of sorts". Hope when they do cover up it is as when Queen Rania does, she doesn't always, but you can tell she is very fashionable with a more than a spritz of hair still showing when she does.

My evaluation of this is that young women within Western-oriented societies that convert and then need to cover up reveals a separation from themselves form our society. We need less separating and more coming together here in the West. It also seems covering up is something fundamentalists would do. We need less fundamentalism here.

More important is something is occurring within mainstream society that a few find a need to withdraw. That is the problem, not the expression of it found in these women converts, we should find out what is wrong with our society and fix it.

Moderate expressions of faith are welcome. The woman in the OP would convince many more (I need no convincing, I accept Muslims as our own, they are part of our society if they settle here) if she simply found no need to hide her hair. There is no shame in not doing so. If men who convert to Islam here do not need to hide their hair then she does not need to either.

Edited by The world needs you, 06 June 2013 - 11:07 AM.


#60    Jessica Christ

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 06 June 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I suppose the question, and I think it's a reasonable question, is why don't the enrmous majority of rational and reasonable Muslim people disown and disassociate themselves from the raving loonies? No one believes that (for instance) Wetboro Baptist Church speak for all Christians, everyone realises that they're nutcases, but why don't we see more of reasonable Mulslims distancing themselves from and ostracising the raving Preachers and the nuts who shout "God is Great!"? is it that the way that Islam is structured means that the Imams and Mullahs have so much dominance and authority that it's inconceivable for anyone to challenge them, however much they may harm the religion as a whole?

It is not the Imams and Mullahs that have more power, not here, it is our own press and prejudices that have more power here in the West.

Moderate Muslims denounce extremism all the time. Here in America and abroad, here and there. That the press would rather focus on more sensational stories and ignore the voices of moderates is no surprise, they sell more this way in an industry where traditional journalism is less competitive as a product and thus in decline.

The message is not totally ignored: Muslim Americans Amp Up Anti-Radicalization Efforts

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Since then, Muslim activists have spearheaded efforts to eradicate the perception that Islam is a violent or extreme religion -- often laboring to disseminate the simple message that the vast majority of Islam's 1.6 billion followers worldwide denounce terrorism.

American Muslims are the most moderate, that is Muslims who came from abroad to settle here, they become more moderate because they simply see our way of life and acculturation is a natural force of synthesis and change.  U.S. Muslims More Moderate Than Muslims Worldwide, Per Poll

That new Western-born converts have to become fundamentalists is a funny paradigm. It reveals they too believe Islam is extreme, as most Westerners falsely do, as is the message of the press.

This is not just found among women but young men, who might have foreign-born backgrounds, who might come from moderate Muslim backgrounds, or even Christian, and then become radicalized because they think that is what Islam is.

Our own press and citizens also need to get the message out: Islam is not radicalism just as Christianity is not. To become faithful does not have to include separation or extremism here.

But that the Boston Marathon Bombers and the assailants of Rigby Drummer thought it was, that the woman in OP and others like her, that they all think they have to withdraw from Western values to be pious is silly, a message we need to contradict together.

So instead of asking, "why don't we see more of reasonable Mulslims distancing themselves from and ostracising the raving Preachers," we should be asking: well they are but why is not the press drumming up that message and why are we not joining in with our Muslim brothers and sisters to help spread that message ourselves?

Edited by The world needs you, 06 June 2013 - 11:03 AM.





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