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'Why I Converted to Islam'


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#61    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:13 AM

why are we not joining in with our Muslim brothers and sisters to help spread that message ourselves?

Because we're committing violence ourselves.  We don't want to know or hear about why some Muslims support terrorism because if we opened our ears to those voices and had that debate it would expose our hypocrisy.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#62    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:21 AM

Let the exposition begin.

Neither of us welcome the wars and are eager to turn them into remnants.

Less chastising of our own hypocrisy and more promotion of universal moderation would naturally expose our own hypocrisy without making it a focal point.

Moderate expressions, dissolution of borders, acculturation as a natural process, the universal brotherhood of men, and other topics in which we all profit from deserve to be up and center.


#63    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:28 AM

View PostThe world needs you, on 06 June 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Let the exposition begin.

Neither of us welcome the wars and are eager to turn them into remnants.

Less chastising of our own hypocrisy and more promotion of universal moderation would naturally expose our own hypocrisy without making it a focal point.

Moderate expressions, dissolution of borders, acculturation as a natural process, the universal brotherhood of men, and other topics in which we all profit from deserve to be up and center.
I agree, but none of that serves national interests.  The US/west serves US/western interests and unabashedly admits it.



"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#64    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostYamato, on 06 June 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

I agree, but none of that serves national interests.  The US/west serves US/western interests and unabashedly admits it.



I also agree and would not totally blame you for focusing on that. We have the same goal even if at times we take different paths toward it.

Wars that profits a few—are not what profit us all. No matter which side of the equation we focus on we want the same things.


#65    Yamato

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 06 June 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I also agree and would not totally blame you for focusing on that. We have the same goal even if at times we take different paths toward it.

Wars that profits a few—are not what profit us all. No matter which side of the equation we focus on we want the same things.
And that begs the converse question, where are the moderate Americans condemning American violence?  

In order for us to influence the minds of those resorting to violence, we have to reach those resorting to violence.  Reaching out to moderates to all chime in together about what we already think while we continue the same foreign policies isn't going to reach the minds we would like to change.  If the US government left foreign relations in the hands of its people, we'd get much better results.  But that doesn't serve its (our?) interests.  Not even 10 million people marching in February 2003, the largest anti-war rally in history, could stop the war launched in March 2003.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#66    markdohle

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:19 PM

View PostYamato, on 04 June 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

I often observe how some 90% of the discussion about Islam on this website boils down to finding the worst examples of behavior done under Islamic pretense and in so doing, letting extremists and terrorists define the religion for everyone and the rest of us. Questions such as "Why don't Muslims condemn violence done by religious extremists?" are repeated in the attempt to pollute the entire religion with extremism and get 1.4 billion people sharing in the blame.  What people asking this question rarely come to understand is their own lack of evidence for something isn't evidence that it doesn't exist.  Even when evidence is provided to refute the implication in their question, they ignore it or discount it and eventually amnesia sets in and they go right back to asking the same question again and again on another day.

From the video: "I go to Mosques.  I go to Islamic meetings.  Those people who are actually Muslims and have been Muslims for generations... even they, when I ask them, have you seen what's going on TV, and they don't understand, they are like 'I know, right?  What is it?  What is wrong with those people?  Why do they even call themselves Muslims?'"




We tend to judge other groups by their worst, while we judge our own by our best.....sad but true.  Thank you for expanding my understanding.

peace
mark


#67    and then

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 05 June 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

only thing is the Dragon and its heads ( Communism) has all but been defeated with the fall of Russia ( that was the direct work of the Lord of the Second Advent) , very soon China will also denounce communism as it embraces Capitalism and then democracey , Then north korea will fall unable to stand  , unfortunatly the real battle is between Christians and Muslims if they can find a way to unite, a universal teaching that embraces them both under it will allow this, This is the role of the Lord of Second Advent, to unify the faiths and destroy false doctrines..Those who are the Clouds he comes on  are also the "flood" waters.

its not the role to convert, but to work between the faiths,( so to enchourage those to hold onto ones faith and represent it before God , sealed under there lampstand)  but also to work between the govt of the world and various religous organisations and faiths  to foster peace and bring a completed testament, this testament ( the completed testament, the new truth, the book given to John in his revelation that " tasted sweet as honey in the mouth but turns bitter in the stomach" ) reveals the salvation of mankind unfolding historicaly in the same manner as the Ark of Noah, 3 levels, 3 dispensational time frame periods ( 1st level: things that slither and slide, 2nd level : things that walk on all 4s, 3rd level: birds of the air)  it also shows that the world is originaly under Satan (1st Adam), then Gabriel (2nd Adam) them Michael (3rd Adam), we can know Adam was the tree of life ( 1st Adam) because Jesus told us he was "The tree of Life" 2nd Adam, this does not detract from the revelation of the prophet Mohamad or the message of Jesus and his importance. (It shows there missions and the importance of each)
This is an example of the ecumenism that is creeping into the world.  I denounce it as apostasy.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#68    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:13 PM

View Postand then, on 06 June 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

This is an example of the ecumenism that is creeping into the world.  I denounce it as apostasy.

And others increasingly embrace it.

Once upon a time I also felt horrified at ecumenism.

Someone else taught us these lessons of burned bridges but we are allowed to rebuild them.

Edited by The world needs you, 06 June 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#69    odas

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:01 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 06 June 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:



My question was based more on a Western outlook assuming this is where our dear convert from the OP is from. That it is becoming "more of a choice in all three faiths" to cover up in other parts of the world is welcomed.

The "older and more religious christian women italy, portugal, spain..they all cover their hair all the time," is very charming but also something the West has mainly discarded for a reason among the younger set and it has nothing to do with wanting to be "loose" "non virtuous" or "dressing in miniskirts". Someone can be just as faithful without such antique adornments.



What about Western Muslim men? When I see male converts covering up here then we are onto something. That only the women do so runs counter to Western values.

That other Muslim societies have their own rules and will change according to their own timeline is not in dispute. That here in the West it seems backward for women converts to cover up is something not being addressed.



Love the Bosniaks. Glad to hear it is a "fashion statement of sorts". Hope when they do cover up it is as when Queen Rania does, she doesn't always, but you can tell she is very fashionable with a more than a spritz of hair still showing when she does.

My evaluation of this is that young women within Western-oriented societies that convert and then need to cover up reveals a separation from themselves form our society. We need less separating and more coming together here in the West. It also seems covering up is something fundamentalists would do. We need less fundamentalism here.

More important is something is occurring within mainstream society that a few find a need to withdraw. That is the problem, not the expression of it found in these women converts, we should find out what is wrong with our society and fix it.

Moderate expressions of faith are welcome. The woman in the OP would convince many more (I need no convincing, I accept Muslims as our own, they are part of our society if they settle here) if she simply found no need to hide her hair. There is no shame in not doing so. If men who convert to Islam here do not need to hide their hair then she does not need to either.

My mistake. I was refering to the male head covers in the arab and western world by muslim men but forgot to specify it. Sorry.

Again, we are mixing up western or eastern values with religion. American social values for example differ from Japanies or Chinese values. Those values again in both countries differ from the values in their own countries 50 years ago.
For example, in the west individuals claim success as their own, in China it is not socialy accepted to put yourself infront of the team.
The same differences we have in religions, not only interfaith but also among the same religion with different dominations. There is a difference between catholics, evangelists, orthodox although they are all christians. Just like the difference between sunnies, shia, sufi, ahmadia although all are members of the islamic religion.
Modernization goes with the time. Some adapt sooner some later. Some opose change some embrace it.
You know about the extreme version of the female muslim cover, the full body burqa, right?
Well, there is the christian women version that is still practised by highly religious christians on Malta. Full body cover.


#70    third_eye

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:05 PM

Posted Image


when best is all we have left ... then best we will then achieve ....



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He who postpones the hour of living rightly ... is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out ... before he crosses.
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#71    Rafterman

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:16 PM

View PostYamato, on 04 June 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

I often observe how some 90% of the discussion about Islam on this website boils down to finding the worst examples of behavior done under Islamic pretense and in so doing, letting extremists and terrorists define the religion for everyone and the rest of us. Questions such as "Why don't Muslims condemn violence done by religious extremists?" are repeated in the attempt to pollute the entire religion with extremism and get 1.4 billion people sharing in the blame.  What people asking this question rarely come to understand is their own lack of evidence for something isn't evidence that it doesn't exist.  Even when evidence is provided to refute the implication in their question, they ignore it or discount it and eventually amnesia sets in and they go right back to asking the same question again and again on another day.

From the video: "I go to Mosques.  I go to Islamic meetings.  Those people who are actually Muslims and have been Muslims for generations... even they, when I ask them, have you seen what's going on TV, and they don't understand, they are like 'I know, right?  What is it?  What is wrong with those people?  Why do they even call themselves Muslims?'"




Frankly I don't care why she converted.

I'm just curious why so many in our supposedly enlightened modern society need to believe in an old man living in the sky?

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#72    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:28 PM

View PostRafterman, on 06 June 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Frankly I don't care why she converted.

I'm just curious why so many in our supposedly enlightened modern society need to believe in an old man living in the sky?
not a man .. not a woman .. uneffected by time not old or young still eternal
smirks

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 06 June 2013 - 03:28 PM.

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#73    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:46 PM

View PostRafterman, on 06 June 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Frankly I don't care why she converted.

I'm just curious why so many in our supposedly enlightened modern society need to believe in an old man living in the sky?
that old fashioned anthropomorphism, which was designed to enable ancient peoples to be able to think of something greater than them in terms that they might be able to understand, is not necessarily what a majority of (at any rate) Christians, or people of many other faiths (such as, most obviously, Buddhism), necessarily do in fact believe (even if I can't speak for Muslims).

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#74    Rafterman

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 06 June 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

that old fashioned anthropomorphism, which was designed to enable ancient peoples to be able to think of something greater than them in terms that they might be able to understand, is not necessarily what a majority of (at any rate) Christians, or people of many other faiths (such as, most obviously, Buddhism), necessarily do in fact believe (even if I can't speak for Muslims).

Well of course my comment was an oversimplification, but the question still stands.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#75    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:13 PM

Better question is why some are so angry toward those who find comfort and peace in the older myths while discarding the tribalism and hostility so present in a few cynics who masquerade as skeptics?

No need to be angry here. The OP was not about that, at all.

Edited by The world needs you, 06 June 2013 - 04:14 PM.





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