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Edward Snowden NSA whistleblower


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#136    pallidin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 June 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

On one side of the table: Government secrecy.   On the other:  Individual privacy. For some people, the 2nd side still weighs a lot more.

What does this have to do with conspiracy theory?

That's easy. Some of the respondents based on a clear past history here on UM.

But I won't point fingers. We are all entitled to our opinion, and I think that's just fine.

In fact, I actually respect those who have a strong differing opinion to, say, my own, as opposed to those whom are "wishy-washy"

I know where they stand, they know where I stand, and results in a healthy debate, if followed through maturely of course.

And I think the same type of attitude should extend within Congressional debate over the PRISM program, perhaps even, hopefully, extending to the U.S. Supreme Court to settle this issue once and for all.

Personally, I believe that PRISM is totally legal and much needed. That's my stance.

Edited by pallidin, 17 June 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#137    Kowalski

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

View Postpallidin, on 17 June 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Hahahahahaaaaa!!!! Well, if he is lying, I have no idea.

Funny how CT's only consider information that supports their own position, and quickly dismisses that which does not.

I choose to consider all sides of a table before moving it around my living room.

It's not a conspiracy theory.


Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) — A member of Congress asks the director of national intelligence if the National Security Agency collects data on millions of Americans. "No, sir," James Clapper responds. Pressed, he adds a caveat: "Not wittingly."
Then, NSA programs that do precisely that are disclosed.
It turns out that President Barack Obama's intelligence chief lied. Or as he put it last week: "I responded in what I thought was the most truthful or least most untruthful manner, by saying, 'No,' because the program was classified."
The White House stands by him. Press secretary Jay Carney says Obama "certainly believes that Director Clapper has been straight and direct in the answers that he's given." Congress, always adept at performing verbal gymnastics, seems generally unmiffed about Clapper's lack of candor. If there have been repercussions, the public doesn't know about them.
Welcome to the intelligence community, a shadowy network of secrets and lies reserved, apparently, not only for this country's enemies but also for its own citizens.
Sometimes it feels as if the government operates in a parallel universe where lying has no consequences and everyone but the people it represents is complicit in deception. Looking at episodes like this, it's unsurprising that people have lost faith in their elected leaders and the institution of government. This all reinforces what polls show people think: Washington plays by its own rules.
Since when is it acceptable for government — elected leaders or those they appoint — to be directly untruthful to Americans? Do people even care about the deception? Or is this kind of behavior expected these days? After all, most politicians parse words, tell half-truths and omit facts. Some lie outright. It's called spin.

Taken from http://news.yahoo.co...html?.tsrc=emul

Quote


Nevertheless, in March — before the programs the senator knew existed had been disclosed to the world — Wyden put Clapper on the spot. The senator asked about the classified intelligence operations, which Clapper was prohibited from talking openly about, in a public committee hearing.
"Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Wyden asked.
"No, sir," Clapper answered.
"It does not?" asked Wyden.
"Not wittingly," Clapper said, offering a more nuanced response. "There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect — but not wittingly."
Three months later, a former NSA contractor leaked information on top-secret surveillance programs that do, in fact, file away phone records on millions of Americans. Wittingly.
That, said Udall, "is the type of surveillance I have long said would shock the public if they knew about it."
Within days, Wyden — who says he gave Clapper a heads up a day earlier that he would be asking the question about classified information at an open hearing — accused Clapper of misleading the Senate committee in public and later in private when the intelligence director declined to change his answer from the firm "no" to the question.
"The American people have the right to expect straight answers from the intelligence leadership to the questions asked by their representatives," Wyden said.

Why do you choose to believe people who are known liars? :no:


#138    Yamato

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:30 PM

View Postpallidin, on 17 June 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

That's easy. Some of the respondents based on a clear past history here on UM.
Who?

Quote

But I won't point fingers. We are all entitled to our opinion, and I think that's just fine.
Oh no, you can't have it both ways.   The only thing this has to do with conspiracy theory is you pointing your finger.   If you can't point fingers then your claim is not only irrelevant it's baseless too.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#139    pallidin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostKowalski, on 17 June 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

It's not a conspiracy theory.




Taken from http://news.yahoo.co...html?.tsrc=emul



Why do you choose to believe people who are known liars? :no:

That's just a "sour bait', and I'm not falling for it.


#140    pallidin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Who?


Oh no, you can't have it both ways.   The only thing this has to do with conspiracy theory is you pointing your finger.   If you can't point fingers then your claim is not only irrelevant it's baseless too.

Not at all. I'm simply being respectful of UM guidelines to not engage in personal attack.

Do I really have to "point-out", directly, the CT's I'm talking about? No.

They know full well who they are, and so do I and MANY other's. No need for elaboration.

It's pointless.

I would just like to stay on subject, please.

Edited by pallidin, 17 June 2013 - 07:42 PM.


#141    Jessica Christ

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:38 PM

Lonnie Snowden has a message for his son, Edward Snowdon: "come home and face this," to not "commit treason," and that, "I have faith in our justice system..."

Quote

"I hope, I pray and I ask that you will not release any secrets that could constitute treason," Snowden told Fox News, in a message meant for his son's ears. He added: "I sense that you're under much stress [from] what I've read recently, and [ask] that you not succumb to that stress ... and make a bad decision."

Further, Snowden said he would rather see his son return to the U.S. and face the U.S. justice system than stay abroad.

"I would like to see Ed come home and face this. I shared that with the government when I spoke with them. I love my son," he told Fox News' Eric Bolling.

Snowden claimed there are some people who want him to "cross that line and do something that constitutes treason, or they would like to see him disappear." But Snowden said he's sure "that the moment he landed that there would be a line of attorneys waiting to defend him."


*snip*


"I have faith in our justice system applied correctly, absolutely. You know, I would rather my son be a prisoner in the U.S. than a free man in a country that did not have ... the freedoms that are protected" in the U.S., he said.


*snip*


He said he last saw his son on April 4. "We'd gone out to dinner," he said, adding that his son seemed to be carrying a "burden."


EXCLUSIVE: Father of Edward Snowden urges son not to commit 'treason,' to return home

Interesting to note is that Lonnie Snowden said he last saw his son on 4 April and that Edward,  "seemed to be carrying a "burden.""

Interesting in that Booz Allen Hamilton released on 11 June that Snowden was fired and had only been with them for less than three months which places his hiring with them no earlier than 11 March.


Quote

June 11, 2013

(Updated Information Underlined)

Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii.

Booz Allen Statement on Reports of Leaked Information

So if Edward was "burdened" over already committing treason and plans to run then that means he had been on the job less than 3 weeks and had already made that decision then.

Edited by The world needs you, 17 June 2013 - 08:05 PM.


#142    Kowalski

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:40 PM

View Postpallidin, on 17 June 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

That's just a "sour bait', and I'm not falling for it.

Wasn't baiting you, at all, actually. Just pointing something out....

View Postpallidin, on 17 June 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Not at all. I'm simply being respectful of UM guidelines to not engage in personal attack.

That's funny, didn't you just call me a "conspiracy theorist"?


#143    Yamato

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:51 PM

View Postpallidin, on 17 June 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Not at all. I'm simply being respectful of UM guidelines to not engage in personal attack.

Do I really have to "point-out", directly, the CT's I'm talking about? No.

They know full well who they are, and so do I and MANY other's. No need for elaboration.

It's pointless.

I would just like to stay on subject, please.
It was pointless, that's my point.  Now back to the subject with you.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#144    Jessica Christ

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:56 PM

Also Snowden lived out of the states for some time and could have been compromised then. He also took a vacation to Hong Kong before, one was a total surprise to his girlfriend, maybe he was there on other business...

In either case all was not perfect in paradise when they returned to Hawaii.

Quote

*snip*

It was a heartbreaking turn of events for Mills who had lived with Snowden since at least 2009 when they were in Japan together.

Last year he whisked her 8,000 miles from their home south of Baltimore, Maryland to Hong Kong where family friends thought they got married because it was a 'special place' for them.

*snip*

That month Snowden moved to Hawaii and two months later Mills joined him.

She freely admits that it was to save their relationship as they appear to having been going through a rocky patch that continues after her arrival.

She writes how she seriously considers taking a plane home most days and that she can’t settle down - until July comes.

*snip*

According to the rest of the blog, it was all idyllic until earlier this month, when the darkness returned to their lives.

Writing on June 3, Mills said: ‘While I have been patiently asking the universe for a livelier schedule, I’m not sure I meant for it to dump half a year’s worth of experience in my lap in two weeks time.

‘We’re talking biblical stuff - floods, deceit, loss. Somehow I’ve only managed a few tears amongst all of the madness of May.’

Another revealing aspect of her blog is that Mills seems to share Snowden’s views views on the surveillance society.

Writing on July 4 last year she says that the America she loves is ‘ever-changing’ and that she is in ‘fear it’s straying from the freedom it has always represented’.

She writes: ‘America is still one of the greatest, but she’s falling in my eyes. I hope her people see where she’s going and ask themselves “is this really how I want to live?”.

Another post will be of interest to investigators looking to find out what she knew - a poster in protest against the Stop Online Piracy Act, which is currently being considered by Congress.

If passed SOPA will make copyright rules more strictly enforced to a level which Mills claims is draconian.

On her blog she writes in terms that sound as if they could have been written by Snowden himself.

She writes: ‘Normally I’d be hitting you with a riveting entry about my super hero life, but today I wanted to join others in protest of SOPA.‘

A bill that poses to allow the government to control the very thing you’re reading my blog on — the internet. The way users (people like you and me) share information and ideas freely across the internet would most certainly change.’


She then urged readers to sign a petition and email their Congressional representatives.

*snip*

EXCLUSIVE: The beautiful ballerina girlfriend whistleblower Ed Snowden was set to wed before he left her in Hawaii and fled to Hong Kong to leak NSA secrets. Now she says she feels ‘adrift’


It won't be surprising if she was at all involved. No doubt in time we will know who his handlers were and if there are any others in his ring or if he truly worked alone...

Edited by The world needs you, 17 June 2013 - 08:04 PM.


#145    Kowalski

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

Seems to me, some people are so busy trying to discredit Snowden, they have failed to hear his message....So typical. Don't like the message, so they discredit the messenger.....


#146    Yamato

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:08 PM



"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#147    pallidin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:30 PM




#148    Babe Ruth

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:57 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 17 June 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:


Lonnie Snowden has a message for his son, Edward Snowdon: "come home and face this," to not "commit treason," and that, "I have faith in our justice system..."


EXCLUSIVE: Father of Edward Snowden urges son not to commit 'treason,' to return home

Interesting to note is that Lonnie Snowden said he last saw his son on 4 April and that Edward,  "seemed to be carrying a "burden.""

Interesting in that Booz Allen Hamilton released on 11 June that Snowden was fired and had only been with them for less than three months which places his hiring with them no earlier than 11 March.




Booz Allen Statement on Reports of Leaked Information

So if Edward was "burdened" over already committing treason and plans to run then that means he had been on the job less than 3 weeks and had already made that decision then.


Wow, that sounds amazingly similar to the public statement made by the Uncle of the Boston brothers, an uncle who happened to be a CIA asset.


#149    Babe Ruth

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:59 PM

View Postpallidin, on 17 June 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

OK, here's just one:

Retired Gen. Michael Hayden, a former NSA director, said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" that what the agency collects are "essentially billing records" that detail the time, duration and phone numbers involved in a call.

The records are added to a database that agents can query in cases involving a terror investigation overseas, and agents can't eavesdrop on Americans' calls without an order from a secret court that handles intelligence matters, he said.

If a phone number related to an investigation has links to a domestic phone number, "We've got to go back to the court," he said.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

I understand sir.  You believe any and all authority figures, no questions asked, no details examined.  Yes, I get it.


#150    pallidin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 17 June 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

I understand sir.  You believe any and all authority figures, no questions asked, no details examined.  Yes, I get it.

No, I don't.

But what "authority figures" do you believe in, if I might ask.





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