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Edward Snowden NSA whistleblower


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#61    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:16 PM

I can see a couple of possibilities with that. First is being asked to reveal online activity and handles when being vetted for a clearance. Lie about it and no go. Talked bad about the government off the cuff on forums and no go. Talk about how to game the system and no hire.

The other is a massive computer literacy effort for older Americans who might be better able to be trusted.

The Snowden effect is unknown but there will be one.

Edited by The world needs you, 13 June 2013 - 06:17 PM.


#62    Ashotep

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:16 PM

As a liberal of sorts I strongly suspect Snowden went to China because he thinks the CIA won't catch up with him there and has nothing to do with them being freer than us.  Maybe he had ulterior motives for leaking these documents or maybe he is just plain nuts but I'm glad he brought it to public attention because now everyone knows how much they are being watched.

Wasn't a good idea on his part to release documents that prove we were spying on China.  They hack our computers and spy on us too so I don't feel bad about that.  Maybe by him releasing the fact China was being spied on he thought it would secure him a place of some what safety.


#63    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:23 PM

He should have did his homework. Hong Kong has worked with us on extraditing wanted criminals. It is no safe haven unless China has personally pledged beforehand not to. If they harbor him it will seem suspect...


#64    Babe Ruth

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:31 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 13 June 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Doesn't this seem insincere?

Isn't that what is being done here?

Instead of commenting on the information presented regarding Snowden a couple few just want to focus on our fellow poster...

Keep in mind this thread is about Snowden himself. Discussing him seems in order. Do you have another view of Snowden himself than what is being presented?

The thread title is Snowden as NSA whistleblower.  That seems an accurate analysis.

The point of my previous post was that you seem rather busy portraying Snowden as a traitor, rather like Feinstein and Boehner do.

They are the traitors, not Snowden.

Snowden, like Manning, has served his country as he exposes the crimes of the country's government.  He has betrayed the government, and that is good.  The government needs to repeal the Unpatriot Act, admit that the GWOT is a fraud of epic proportions, and make positive steps toward governing in accordance with constitutional principles.

What's wrong with that?


#65    Kowalski

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 13 June 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

The thread title is Snowden as NSA whistleblower.  That seems an accurate analysis.

The point of my previous post was that you seem rather busy portraying Snowden as a traitor, rather like Feinstein and Boehner do.

They are the traitors, not Snowden.

Snowden, like Manning, has served his country as he exposes the crimes of the country's government.  He has betrayed the government, and that is good.  The government needs to repeal the Unpatriot Act, admit that the GWOT is a fraud of epic proportions, and make positive steps toward governing in accordance with constitutional principles.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing. That's the way our country is supposed to be run, according to the Constitution and Bill of Rights.


#66    Ashotep

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:03 AM

Am I the only one here that did not know that the NSA is a private contractor.  I always thought it was part of the government.


#67    Kowalski

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostHilander, on 14 June 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Am I the only one here that did not know that the NSA is a private contractor.  I always thought it was part of the government.

I thought the same thing too!

But, appearantly it's not....That should scare people. We don't know what private corporations or contractors have our personal information...


#68    A rather obscure Bassoon

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:33 AM

View PostHilander, on 14 June 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Am I the only one here that did not know that the NSA is a private contractor.  I always thought it was part of the government.
Sign of the times,everything that was once sacred has been farmed out to private companies throughout the western world.

Welcome to North America Incorporated..

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#69    No Censorship

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:45 AM

View PostKowalski, on 14 June 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I thought the same thing too!

But, appearantly it's not....That should scare people. We don't know what private corporations or contractors have our personal information...

That might not make a difference. Human nature rears its bad side or good side in both private groups and public groups since both are comprised of people with all the baggage that comes with being a person. It really is scary because there are rogues who will misuse information for their own reasons. It need not be a part of official government surveillance, which makes an already concerning thing more so.

ETA: I removed the word, "fact", after I learned to what Kowalski was replying. The NSA indeed is a government organization that uses private contractors.

Edited by Detective Mystery 2013, 14 June 2013 - 03:13 AM.

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#70    No Censorship

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:52 AM

View Postpallidin, on 13 June 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Snowden is a psychopathic traitor, like the others.

Unfortunately, his warped mentality was not discovered earlier.

That remains to be seen. I don't know if he's a hero or a villain, so I will reserve judgment until I know all of the facts. For the sake of argument, let's say that the messenger is treasonous. If so, is the *message* true, which is the issue that should receive the most focus.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#71    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:52 AM

NSA is part of the government and has official government employees. There are also plenty of private contractors but they are not actual NSA just private contractors.

Snowden worked for the (1) NSA as an actual security guard, for the (2) CIA in IT, then began work with a (3) private contractor who had a contract with the NSA so he was not NSA but a private contractor for his (3) last job. The first two (1) (2) mentioned was as an actual government employee.

DoD also has official DoD employees and private contractors. All kinds of work. But to make it simple consider that a. there are actual soldiers who fight and do non-combat duties and b. contractors who fight like Blackwater used as private contractor soldiers and like Haliburton used as mess hall workers and truck drivers.

So yes lots of actual NSA employees but they do outsource some of their work.

Edited by The world needs you, 14 June 2013 - 03:19 AM.


#72    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:01 AM

View Postshaddow134, on 14 June 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:


Sign of the times,everything that was once sacred has been farmed out to private companies throughout the western world.

Welcome to North America Incorporated..

Not everything. As in the case of the DoD we have plenty of actual GI soldiers but many functions once did by soldiers are being farmed out. We have regular companies do this too like AT&T for example, regular employees and they outsource some of their work to contractors. In some buildings the whole mailroom could be taken care of by another company.

Do not make it sound more sinister than it is. It is about dollars and cents. Look in the case of the military each soldier who enlists gets tons of benefits: GI Bill and VA healthcare for one.

Now hire some Haliburton contractors or Blackwater instead and you don't have to pay them those benefits. Same with NSA, they farm out work, save on benefits, private companies like Time Warner do the same, but expect changes now cause of Snowden when it comes to that type of work. Maybe not. But changes will come in some form.

Edited by The world needs you, 14 June 2013 - 03:08 AM.


#73    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:04 AM

View PostHilander, on 13 June 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

As a liberal of sorts I strongly suspect Snowden went to China because he thinks the CIA won't catch up with him there and has nothing to do with them being freer than us.  Maybe he had ulterior motives for leaking these documents or maybe he is just plain nuts but I'm glad he brought it to public attention because now everyone knows how much they are being watched.

Wasn't a good idea on his part to release documents that prove we were spying on China.  They hack our computers and spy on us too so I don't feel bad about that.  Maybe by him releasing the fact China was being spied on he thought it would secure him a place of some what safety.

Maybe China has blackmail on Snowden and coerced him? It makes no sense he goes to Hong Kong who has worked with us in returning wanted criminals. He is not safe there unless China chooses to keep him. Something is off about all this unless he really is clueless. Certainly he knows others have been extradited from Hong Kong?


#74    Ashotep

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:46 AM

So the NSA is part of the government but they contract out a lot of the work to private companies.  Private contractors are still the ones spying on everyone.


Quote

NEW YORK -- The U.S. government monitors threats to national security with the help of nearly 500,000 people like Edward Snowden – employees of private firms who have access to the government's most sensitive secrets.
When Snowden, an employee of one of those firms, Booz Allen Hamilton, revealed details of two National Security Agency surveillance programs, he spotlighted the risks of making so many employees of private contractors a key part of the U.S. intelligence apparatus.

http://www.huffingto..._n_3418876.html

http://www.democracy...w_the_nsa_gives


#75    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

Just to add in again, not disputing the above stories, NSA is part of the DoD.

So it is military, or more accurately our Defense Department, who is running these operations. And unlike more classical intelligence agencies NSA specializes in cryptography.

While others are going to feel more uneasiness about that many others of us will not. They are collecting purely data not eavesdropping on every phone call or internet chat.

If one person claims they love our militaty and defense yet turns around and slams the NSA they are not being consistent.

It another person feels our military should not be using algorithms on citizens, well that is a fair concern due to its novelty, but it is not the same or has anything to do with using troops against citizens and it is a slippery slope to believe or claim so.

To specifically address the claims in the above post: compartmentalization.

There is no one private contractor, individual or firm, who has access to all our data and can use it against the whole country or our citizens. The contractors in place have access specific to their task, an actual government employee is above them, they are all on a need to know basis. So one employee of a private firm is not in direct communication with another employee in another building even their own "supervisors" at the headquarters of the private contracting firm.

Same way with the army. One unit on a mission is not sharing information with members of another unit. Same with private contractors.

Think of it more like a temp agency that hires out workers for buildings. The person who hires you and sends you on an assignment at the temp agency does not know what you are doing for the client. The client is still in charge.

Snowden's claim seem off when he claims one contractor can do and access so much. Research this if in doubt: SCIF


Unsure how the following claim squares up today or with the articles in the above post. The story below references 2010 data.

Quote

A Washington Post series called Top Secret America examined the buildup in the country's national security and found that 854,000 Americans have top-secret clearances, nearly a third of whom work for private contractors.

http://www.washingto...ml?hpid=topnews

Edited by The world needs you, 14 June 2013 - 01:54 PM.





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