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Project Prism


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#1    RavenHawk

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:39 PM

Whatís the big deal with Project Prism?  Wasnít this known back before 2008 as part of the Patriot Act?  I may be losing it, but Iím pretty sure, Iíve had conversations over it.  Iím sure our enemies knew about it.  Our phone conversations and emails are probably not being listened to or read.  Meta data is being collected and all those conversations are being stored for later use.  The Government canít get to them without a warrant.  But the fact is that they exist.  The government does not need to do that.  If they just stuck with the original intent of monitoring the metadata and disposing of it after a few months, then I had no problem.  But what is going on is a clear violation of the Constitution.  What needs to be done?  Go after the whistle blower or go after the government?  What is up with making Edward Snowden a scapegoat anyway?  Something just isnít right.  This is reminding me too much of Mark Basseley Youssef (Sam Bacile).

OBTW, Iím sure the OP will set off some flags and this will end up in the data warehouse, so make sure you include plenty of Terrorism, al Qaeda, bombs, hijacks, plots, etc. in your replies.

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#2    Dark_Grey

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

I've calmed down about this since it came to light that it is really only metadata that is being collected. My feelings about privacy are still well intact however. It's like I've said before; to the best of my knowledge, there just isn't a feasible technology for monitoring internet content in real-time. To pass the billions of gigabytes of online data through a handful of screening points would bring online communication to a halt. Hence, the collection of metadata which many sites have (correctly) pointed out can be more dangerous than the actual content. The metadata is a logistical log of the communication that was sent. Ergo, the location it was sent from, the length, the recipient. If you were to lay out a year's worth of a person's metadata, you could effectively map that person's daily activities.

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#3    pallidin

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

I carry my cell phone, always "ON", everywhere I go.

They could "ping" my location(actually the phones location) within 15-20 feet, or so I've heard, depending on cell tower coverage.

But I'm OK with that, especially if I'm in an accident(or as a hostage), I dial 911, and I have no idea where I'm at or can't talk.

Of course, that has nothing(or little) to do with PRISM, and is public information, but thought I would shout it out for those who don't know.

Edited by pallidin, 10 June 2013 - 08:10 PM.


#4    Babe Ruth

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:23 PM

Some folks just have trouble understanding the meaning of "...and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause."

Cripes, some folks are perfectly happy for the government to seize personal papers and effects WITHOUT a warrant. :no:


#5    Kowalski

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

The Fourth Amendment states:

Quote

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Link to History behind the Fourth Amendment: http://www.revolutio...-amendment.html


#6    pallidin

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 10 June 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Some folks just have trouble understanding the meaning of "...and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause."

Cripes, some folks are perfectly happy for the government to seize personal papers and effects WITHOUT a warrant. :no:

Funny you should say that. I, for one, have nothing to hide. Nor do many others.

I couldn't care less what the Gov. knows about me. As long as their activities, public or secret, keep me and my family safer while we're, say, on a jetliner for vacation, hey, I'm all for it.

As you well know, their are some bad-ass people out there, wishing nothing more than the destruction of Western peoples and values, so monitoring is important.

Sure, our "liberties" have gone from a 10 to a 7, but our safety has gone from a 2 to a 9.

Edited by pallidin, 10 June 2013 - 08:57 PM.


#7    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

so it's the 21st century version of Echelon then.
That's nice.


#8    Kowalski

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

You have to wonder, why does the government need all this information about it's citizens? What possible purpose could it serve?


#9    F3SS

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:57 PM

View PostKowalski, on 10 June 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

You have to wonder, why does the government need all this information about it's citizens? What possible purpose could it serve?
Donate a hundred grand to a prominent republican and you'll find out. This info is collected not to necessarily be monitored but to be used when needed. Perhaps you're on the wrong side of politics or perhaps you've plssed off somebody that knows somebody and perhaps you have an uncle who you talk to but happens to be a drug dealer and suddenly your phone number comes up as a regular connection to the known dealer and suddenly your life is miserable. Don't tell me it can't or won't happen. I'm sure the are multitudes of crappy scenarios that can be concocted to be used against you. Anyone else think of any?

As for our security going from a two to a nine? There have been more terrorist attacks and attempts since 9-11 than there were before. There have been, I believe,  more mass shootings since also. All this time these spying activities have been in force, like Raven said. So the, what good are they. James Holmes bought a bunch of stuff online to commit his crime. Fort Hood scumbag was a member of the military in contact with al Queda on his computer. The Boston bombers were in constant contact with their Russian relatives and even a warning from the Russian government didn't get our Feds to do a damn thing about it.
So these programs are inefficient at best. My guess is that they just may have national security in mind with all this data but ultimately this is a gold mine of data on US citizens that will be used for nefarious purposes and while they may not have an ultimate plan for how to use all this data it doesn't hurt the power players to collect and store it while they figure it out.
Our security is no better than it ever was and if anything I'd say it worse. They're more interested in owning US than helping US.

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#10    aztek

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

View Postpallidin, on 10 June 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Funny you should say that. I, for one, have nothing to hide. Nor do many others.

I couldn't care less what the Gov. knows about me. As long as their activities, public or secret, keep me and my family safer while we're, say, on a jetliner for vacation, hey, I'm all for it.

As you well know, their are some bad-ass people out there, wishing nothing more than the destruction of Western peoples and values, so monitoring is important.

Sure, our "liberties" have gone from a 10 to a 7, but our safety has gone from a 2 to a 9.

that is exactly the attitude i was talking about in nsa thread.

you don't need freedom. you don't even want it.

and if you think you are any safer than you were 20-30 years ago, lmao. if you think gvmnt cares about your safety, i feel sorry for you. you are in bigger denial than river Nile. to the gvmnt you are disposable.

Edited by aztek, 11 June 2013 - 12:21 AM.

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#11    F3SS

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:01 AM

Attached File  image.jpg   18.28K   9 downloads

Edit: Here's the link to that pic. Interesting article.
http://www.businessi...a-center-2013-6
One Fox News report says as much as 5 zettabytes ó 1 zettabyte = 1 billion terabytes = 1 trillion gigabytes ó and with just 1 zettabyte (1024 exabytes) of space, the NSA can store a year's worth of the global Internet traffic (which is estimated reached 966 exabytes per year in 2015).
Here's James Bamford of Wired, author of the book "The Shadow Factory: The NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America":
"Once it's operational, the Utah Data Center will become, in effect, the NSA cloud. The center will be fed data from the agency's eavesdropping satellites, overseas listening posts, and secret monitoring rooms in telecom facilities throughout the U.S."


Read more: http://www.businessi...6#ixzz2VsHSQ31k
Reams of data will be handled by NSA hackers ó who harvest 2.1 million gigabytes of data per hour ó and they'll get help from the most powerful computer the world has ever known.
That machine, the Titan Supercomputer, is capable of churning through more than 20,000 trillion calculations each second or 20 petaflops. (1 petaflop = 1 quadrillion instructions per second).
The top-of-the-line tech will be used to analyze foreign and domestic communications ó obtained from Americas major Internet Service Providers (ISPs) ó in an effort to detect terrorist activity (note: the facility's precise mission is classified).


Read more: http://www.businessi...6#ixzz2VsHbl4WH

Edited by F3SS, 11 June 2013 - 03:25 AM.

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#12    acidhead

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:18 AM

View Postpallidin, on 10 June 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Funny you should say that. I, for one, have nothing to hide. Nor do many others.

I couldn't care less what the Gov. knows about me. As long as their activities, public or secret, keep me and my family safer while we're, say, on a jetliner for vacation, hey, I'm all for it.

As you well know, their are some bad-ass people out there, wishing nothing more than the destruction of Western peoples and values, so monitoring is important.

Sure, our "liberties" have gone from a 10 to a 7, but our safety has gone from a 2 to a 9.

If some of those bad-ass people out there enter into GOV it might change your mind... try thinking long term.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#13    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:29 AM

To the person who says they have nothing to hide, I can but not shake my head in pity at you.

That's the same attitude that led people off into concentration camps and siberia alike...


Quote

you don't need freedom. you don't even want it.
:tsu:

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 11 June 2013 - 04:31 AM.


#14    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:16 AM

I've got nothng to hide, but I'd still like to have the freedom to hide it ;)


#15    Rafterman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:14 AM

One has to wonder if our current notions of privacy and secrecy will be laughed at by citizens in 100 years the way we laugh at the notion of Victorian ideals.

Face it, if it's not the government, it will be someone else collecting and analyzing all of this data - for better or worse.  I know several leading "Big Data" scientists and they tell me it's the next frontier of science that has the potential to revolutionize our planet.  Of course it also has huge potential for evil and misuse.

Several computer scientists where I work have just been given access to more than 25 million medical records (anonymous of course) from a leading healthcare provider.  Analysis of this data and other megadata sets of this type will surely advance medical research.

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