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Gay Christians

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#76    Amalthe

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:15 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 11 June 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

That is not an "axiom", that is a phantastic claim.
What is "rational" about believing in a phantastic claim?

You are either not very educated person, or you are maybe still in your teenage years, since you don't understand the meaning of the word axiom. I wish you find a way to learn about logical definitions and conclusion procedures, it will help you in your life.
It's not that hard, you can google it or go check dictionary.

"An axiom, or postulate, is a premise or starting point of reasoning"

Edited by Amalthe, 11 June 2013 - 09:17 AM.


#77    White Crane Feather

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:11 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 10 June 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

ive never met a gay Christian, as a Christian hetrosexual I put god before my own sexuality. as a heterosexual what do you think god wants from my sex life?
Your happiness, well being, and contentment.

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#78    Irrelevant

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:26 PM

Hmmm..



Edited by Irrelevant, 11 June 2013 - 12:46 PM.


#79    Rlyeh

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:26 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 10 June 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

ive never met a gay Christian, as a Christian hetrosexual I put god before my own sexuality. as a heterosexual what do you think god wants from my sex life?
To watch? I guess he does anyway.


#80    White Crane Feather

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 11 June 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:


no one knows god, your not more special than other Christians that he would preach a different message to you. know one is created gay, all aspects of a persons personality happen through choices and chance stimulants. if your friends were born blind they wouldn't of become gay and the eyes when added wouldn't make them genetically gay.
going to sleep as its late, if you are a Christian you will pray for me even though we disagreed.
Oh dear....

You should talk to these folks.

http://groups.yahoo....roup/blind-gay/

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#81    Jessica Christ

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 11 June 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Or do you not know that the unrighteous[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[c] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
last time I checked the definition of homosexuality was being gay or visa versa
I don't know you, only god knows if your a Christian, but if your beliefs goe against Christianity then what am I to think.
what I think doesn't matter, we both need to pray for our selves and others.
I had a dream of writing this exact comment the other day, so its significant to me. ( good or bad I don't know)

One has to understand that the whole phrase in question in 1 Corinthians 6 as translated as, "nor men who practice homosexuality," in the chosen English version of the Bible above is actually written in the Greek as: oute malakos oute arsenkoités. [link]

So there are two Greek words, malakos and arsenkoités, and both were clumsily translated as one simple word in the English translation presented here in the quote above: homosexuality.

One should be very certain what those two Greek words mean, and what they meant in the context of a 1st century Greek-speaking world, before slinging them around as a way to exclude others in our modern English-speaking society.

In any case any references in 1 Corinthians 6 is about those who inherit the kingdom of God and not a mandate or permission for believers themselves to exclude others themselves. Whoever inherits the kingdom of God is not dependent on the discrimination and prejudices of mortals. We don't make that call. Some should quit pretending that we do.

Keep in mind homosexuality also has as much to do with sex as heterosexuality. Just as some practice abstinence until they find the "right one" so do others. Neither have anything to do with copulation per se. To narrowly focus on either heterosexuality or homosexuality as if they do seems a bit unhealthy but also unfair.

As a Christian myself all homosexuals are my brothers and sisters. If they choose to identify as Christians then they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. It is just more important that they are my brothers and sisters period, as humans, as the second greatest commandment in the New Testament, as it, well....commands: love your neighbors.

Very hypocritical to understand we are all sinners and to accept others and ourselves as sinners but then make an exception to another sin and reject others for it.

It is not love your neighbors (unless you feel they are doing a specific sin that is somehow different than others sins). It is love your neighbors, period. And to love is to accept.

Edited by The world needs you, 11 June 2013 - 01:58 PM.


#82    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 11 June 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

nor men who practice homosexuality

So if you don't give it any real practice, you wont make it as a homosexual?  Homosexuality takes practice? ...

Do I need practice in being a heterosexual?   Was me sticking with the one guy not really making me a pro heterosexual?   Maybe if I had dozens of sexual partners of the opposite sex, then I am a true hetero ? yes?

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 11 June 2013 - 01:05 PM.

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#83    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 11 June 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

If a person is gay they are gay.. it has nothing to do woth you being heterosexual and putting god before your sexual life. A gay christian would be in the position to do the same, put god before thier sexual life. But that wouldn't make them not gay. So what im saying is that thier sexual life and thier relationship with god are a private matter to them. Just like your sexual life is a private matter to you. If you are involved in sexual activity that is unhealthy or ungodly god will rebuke you for that. If it is good and beneficial god will bless... same for anyone.

I personally know of a few gay Christians who have tried ( two of which still do ) to condition themselves in to thinking - The more they constantly speak and act out AGAINST their sexuality  ( mostly sitting in sheer denial ) including showing their disgust for it, this may make their gay fade... They have forced themselves to act like a heterosexual and nothing works, that must take some amount of forcing, for I could not force myself to act gay..... So claiming that they have never had any gay intercourse with another and they hope to stay that way, is another attempt to repress who they really are..

All 3 of them claimed to be straight and told people they were straight guys who will remain celibate..  They did this because they didn't want the mockery and hate from the homophobic people amongst them, more so their local church .. One of them put it slightly different, he put it as - "Well I am a straight dude who wants to put god first and do it how I believe god wishes, and that is remain celibate until I meet the right girl and marry her, then take it from there".........  He said this over 20 years ago, he is now nearly 50 years old, and still no girlfriend, but has been seen with other guys more so..

I guess that's what being a gay Christian can do to some people, make them sit in denial and repress all there is.. It's no wonder some where know in the past to take their own lives because they could't pray the gay away and couldn't face the huge amount of hate and discrimination from their friends and family members..  It's a sad life..  

Yet, they call it a sin just like other sins.. I do not know a single Christian who can safely say he or she is a non sinner.. You can bank not many of these Christians have ever felt so bad enough to go through what the gay Christians did... No need, because they wont get condemned in the same way for their own sins by others around them..not as much as the gays...

My own conclusion
Gay Christian -  it is much ( MUCH ) harder for a man to live with one of the many sins noted in that bible, due to hate and discriminations from his fellow Christians and others they meet in their lifetime.
Straight Christian - It is much  ( MUCH ) easier for other Christians to live committing dozens of sins who ( for many ) will not face the same hate and acts of discrimination, least I forget the condemning of others..  A quick repent and Bob is very much your uncle.. SWEET !!!

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 11 June 2013 - 01:50 PM.

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#84    xFelix

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 June 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

I personally know of a few gay Christians who have tried ( two of which still do ) to condition themselves in to thinking - The more they constantly speak and act out AGAINST their sexuality  ( mostly sitting in sheer denial ) including showing their disgust for it, this may make their gay fade... They have forced themselves to act like a heterosexual and nothing works, that must take some amount of forcing, for I could not force myself to act gay..... So claiming that they have never had any gay intercourse with another and they hope to stay that way, is another attempt to repress who they really are..

All 3 of them claimed to be straight and told people they were straight guys who will remain celibate..  They did this because they didn't want the mockery and hate from the homophobic people amongst them, more so their local church .. One of them put it slightly different, he put it as - "Well I am a straight dude who wants to put god first and do it how I believe god wishes, and that is remain celibate until I meet the right girl and marry her, then take it from there".........  He said this over 20 years ago, he is now nearly 50 years old, and still no girlfriend, but has been seen with other guys more so..

I guess that's what being a gay Christian can do to some people, make them sit in denial and repress all there is.. It's no wonder some where know in the past to take their own lives because they could't pray the gay away and couldn't face the huge amount of hate and discrimination from their friends and family members..  It's a sad life..  

Yet, they call it a sin just like other sins.. I do not know a single Christian who can safely say he or she is a non sinner.. You can bank not many of these Christians have ever felt so bad enough to go through what the gay Christians did... No need, because they wont get condemned in the same way for their own sins by others around them..not as much as the gays...

My own conclusion
Gay Christian -  it is much ( MUCH ) harder for a man to live with one of the many sins noted in that bible, due to hate and discriminations from his fellow Christians and others they meet in their lifetime.
Straight Christian - It is much  ( MUCH ) easier for other Christians to live committing dozens of sins who ( for many ) will not face the same hate and acts of discrimination, least I forget the condemning of others..  A quick repent and Bob is very much your uncle.. SWEET !!!

It's because they're blindly following the teachings of some hateful man and not a loving savior... Seems half the Bible can be interpreted to have a hateful message.. All it takes is that one hateful person to interpret it that way and BAM all of a sudden a religion that was meant to be about peace and love is now about hate.. Thanks to "John" the hateful guy, trying to spread his hate vs spreading the love...(John was just an example name, I really don't know who started all the hate tbh)

Here's something funny, I can say "Damned are those Banana Eaters"... I could mean many things.. But if one of you comes along and affirms confidently that I meant that homosexuals are to be cursed in some way... People will believe.. What if I was just saying that they have a tough life ahead of them? What if my entire purpose of saying that was to ask you to show them mercy because they already have it tough? What if I was actually talking about all people who really eat bananas? Things that make you go Hmmmmm.. :)

Edited by xFelix, 11 June 2013 - 02:12 PM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#85    Ogbin

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:08 PM

You are born with a GOD givin free will. You are not born gay. To say you are born gay takes away your free will.

James 1:14-16 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lusts, and enticed. Then when lust hath concieved, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethern."

Edited by Ogbin, 12 June 2013 - 11:15 PM.


#86    xFelix

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostOgbin, on 12 June 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

You are born with a GOD givin free will. You are not born gay. To say you are born gay takes away your free will.

James 1:14-16 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lusts, and enticed. Then when lust hath concieved, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethern."

That is an interesting section of the scripture to quote.. You understand that by that quote, your savior lusted, and therefore he sinned, and because he sinned he died?
Doesn't make sense right?

Makes about as much sense as Christians calling the scripture the word of their savior to me.. How is it his word, when it was the word that damned him? How could the father have ordered the murder of his "begotten son" the "one and only true savior" and "perfection personified"? He didn't, that was blamed on the Hebrews... But why did they do it? Oh that's right, because the scripture told them to... So why are his followers still worshiping the same scriptures(Oh wait, they translated and picked out certain parts.. Scripture 2.0 now!) that ordered his murder?

Before you quote another part of such a hateful group of documents, ask yourself: "Did these same scriptures not kill my messiah? Why do I insist on not listening to his message, but these scriptures instead?" Only then will it hit you like a bag of bricks... He wanted you to love all, not some... He wanted you to treat all fairly as your brothers and sisters.. Not some... But what does the scripture want? Death to all who oppose. Your choice... Just saying it's an oxymoron to worship someone and the documents that ordered their murder at the same time...

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#87    Sherapy

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostUgly1, on 11 June 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

That is a good story. Touching.
The bible states in Leviticus 18:22 "Thou Shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

However can anyone really argue that gays do not feel love for each other? John 4:7-8. "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of god; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

So how can us Christians say that homosexuals are not going to heaven? If they have true love, they obviously have god truly watching over them.

Being a Christian, I think our biggest problem with Christianity  is that we seem to have forgotten these verses on matters such as these.   Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.  For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest the speck that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the plank that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the speck out of thy brother's eye.

We need to worry about building our temple inside us instead of worrying about other peoples temple.

If I had one prayer that could be answered, I would pray that everyone gets to feel the love that I experience with my family every single day. If a man or woman is only able to find that love with someone of the same sex than who am I to say that they should not pursue? While I may not agree with homosexuality, it may just be that I do not understand how to put myself into their shoes. I do know what love is, and I do feel that every person should get to experience that in this fast life we live in today.

All I know is based on what I've read in the bible, I had better not judge. If I am judged the way I have judged people in the past god will surely have no place for me in heaven. I have been close minded at times when really, I shouldn't have even chimed in an opinion that may have effected others.  May god give you all love whomever that may be with and may we all see eachother in heaven.

I agree with judge not lest you be judged. Your post is honest and fair, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.


#88    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

View PostxFelix, on 11 June 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

It's because they're blindly following the teachings of some hateful man and not a loving savior... Seems half the Bible can be interpreted to have a hateful message.. All it takes is that one hateful person to interpret it that way and BAM all of a sudden a religion that was meant to be about peace and love is now about hate.. Thanks to "John" the hateful guy, trying to spread his hate vs spreading the love...(John was just an example name, I really don't know who started all the hate tbh)

Here's something funny, I can say "Damned are those Banana Eaters"... I could mean many things.. But if one of you comes along and affirms confidently that I meant that homosexuals are to be cursed in some way... People will believe.. What if I was just saying that they have a tough life ahead of them? What if my entire purpose of saying that was to ask you to show them mercy because they already have it tough? What if I was actually talking about all people who really eat bananas? Things that make you go Hmmmmm.. :)

Correct you are..The bible can indeed be interpreted in so many directions, hence why Christianity is full of nothing but disagreements all over the show, it's no wonder they fall under so many branches...
As far as I am concerned, if a holy book can be interpreted by so many, and in ways that can be hateful, so much that even those that stick with what seems most hateful, sit in denial ..Then, that book cannot ever be something that is most true...  It's been edited and re-written many times..All you hear is - We are the true path, no wait we are, no its really us and not them, but we are the true path..<- over and over again..Along with the slamming of each others church...It's a nightmare sometimes to watch and listen to it..  For so many, they can be their own worst enemy

Thing is, a message from something loving and most divine, should not EVER be something that makes anyone ( and I mean ANYONE ) feel uncomfortable about who they are.If it does in any way, then it is not a true loving message..... It is rare to meet someone who will make you feel comfortable and at ease around them.. They are out there, but hard to come by. Shame though,for I have been lucky to meet some really down to earth loving Christians... ...The same message should not set a single soul up on their high horse looking down on anyone else... That book seems to fall into a lot of wrong hands...Even some of the decent Christians will admit and tell you indeed it has fallen into a lot of wrong hands..

Bare in mind - If the bible was not against homosexuality, the haters will still be there, only difference would be, they wouldn't have a book to hide behind..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 14 June 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#89    Zaphod222

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 11 June 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

You are either not very educated person, or you are maybe still in your teenage years, since you don't understand the meaning of the word axiom. I wish you find a way to learn about logical definitions and conclusion procedures, it will help you in your life.
It's not that hard, you can google it or go check dictionary.

"An axiom, or postulate, is a premise or starting point of reasoning"

Or American Heritage Dictionary:

"Axiom: A self-evident or universally recognized truth; a maxim:"

Well, your axiom is a phantastic and absurd claim. There is nothing self-evident or universally recognized about it.

Of course you can postulate any absurdity as an "axiom" to have fun, but don´t expect anybody to waste time on it.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#90    Arpee

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

You can not practice being gay. Either you are attracted to your same gender or you are not. Just because you are having sex with a person of the opposite gender that does not mean you are attracted to them (straight).

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." - Luke 6:35




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