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Syrian endgame playbook: options we have?


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#31    Dark_Grey

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 15 June 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Watch out!!  You are surrounded.
*video*

Whoa...no wonder the rest of the world can't stand them :gun:

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#32    Zaphod222

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 11 June 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:



Of course we cannot expect the moderate rebels themselves to tell off their extremists counterparts when they need all the help they can get so it seems to me intelligence gathering and accountability will be our only recourse after all is said and done. Hope the international war crime trials that will ensue are fair and grab all those responsible and not just those who we don't like now.

I love this pontificating about the "moderate rebels".
How about if these "moderate rebels" only exist in your imagination?

People seem to have forgotten that the sunni islamist rebellion against the secular Assad regime is not new. Assad Senior had been battling the Muslim Brotherhood islamists (basically, the Syrian version of the Taliban) for decades, and quite brutally.

And THAT are the rebels. And now, suddenly, the West has decided to support the Muslim Brotherhood, so we start pontificating about "moderate rebels". But everywhere where these "moderate rebels" aka the Muslim Brotherhood/Al Quaeda take power, the immediately introduce primitive Shariah law. And we still dream about sorting out the "moderate" Al Quaeda from the immoderate Al Quaeda.

Insanity!

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#33    Zaphod222

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:36 PM

Just came across an article by George Friedman (the founder of Stratfor). His comment here addresses the Syrian situation spot on:

" Another issue troubles me -- what I call the "Arab Spring syndrome." There is an assumption by human rights advocates that the crowd opposing a repressive regime will create a less repressive government. I recall how in 1979, when demonstrations were going on against the Shah of Iran, the obvious fact that he ran a repressive regime was combined with a fantasy about what the demonstrators were like -- they were all seen as Western liberal democrats. They weren't, and it is difficult to argue from a human rights point of view that the success of the demonstrators enhanced human rights in Iran. "



.... Exactly. And yet, once again, our politicians fall into the same trap. Why oh why.



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#34    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 18 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Tut, Nikki Khrushchev was an old soldier from the antiquated irredentist Soviet Union from which you wish to distinguish Prince Vlad and the contemporary Russian leadership. If Khrushchev is old school, why do you quote him in your defense of the "new?" It doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain?

"We will bury you?" Hardly the words of a peace-seeking internationalist with a human rights heart o' gold.
Easy explanation. Krushchev, at a meeting with Western ambassadors to Moscow, said this "Нравится вам или нет, но история на нашей стороне. Мы вас закопаем", which translates as "Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you". He was talking about the political systems. He was saying that capitalism was finished, it had run it's course, and as feudalism had given way to capitalism, so capitalism will give way to Marxism-Leninism. This main part of what he said is always missed out because the propagandists of the West rather like to quote the last sentence "We will bury you", by itself and out of context. I know people who even think the "We will bury you" part comes from he when he banged his shoe on table at UN building.......
However, he knew the West had deliberately misquoted him, and later made a qualification of his statement, where he emphasised that he did not mean to literally put you in a grave and shovel earth over you. He meant that the Western proletariat will be the undertaker of capitalism. So "We will bury you" simply means our political system will take over because your own working class will take power and destroy capitalism. So the entire wrong history of  "We will bury you" is because of mischevious translation, or translators unable to understand Russian idioms, but by the time Krushchev made clear what he said, it was to late. Not too late for Western proletariat to rise up against repressive capitalist overlords though. Rise up! davai! :)

And you are second Hungarian (by your forum name) in twentyfour hours to talk to me about Krushchev. Such co-incidences....

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 18 June 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#35    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 18 June 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Whoa...no wonder the rest of the world can't stand them :gun:
See you at Sochi on the ice next year. We will beat USA in semi final, then you :)

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 18 June 2013 - 05:34 PM.


#36    bee

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 18 June 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

I love this pontificating about the "moderate rebels".
How about if these "moderate rebels" only exist in your imagination?

People seem to have forgotten that the sunni islamist rebellion against the secular Assad regime is not new. Assad Senior had been battling the Muslim Brotherhood islamists (basically, the Syrian version of the Taliban) for decades, and quite brutally.

And THAT are the rebels. And now, suddenly, the West has decided to support the Muslim Brotherhood, so we start pontificating about "moderate rebels". But everywhere where these "moderate rebels" aka the Muslim Brotherhood/Al Quaeda take power, the immediately introduce primitive Shariah law. And we still dream about sorting out the "moderate" Al Quaeda from the immoderate Al Quaeda.

Insanity!


I caught the tail end of Sir Malcolm Rifkind talking about Syria on the radio yesterday...and (think I've remembered this right)...

he said there were around 100, 000 Syrian rebels....and only 5,000 of these were foreign terrorist, Jihad, Al Qaeda fighters...ONLY!!!

So I looked to get info about the Syrian population....


http://www.indexmund...cs_profile.html


there are around 7 million males between the ages of 15 and 64.....

Which puts the numbers of Syrian 'rebels' in perspective....presumably the other 6, 900, 000 males don't feel

strongly enough to fight?

What I'm getting round to saying is that the ones who ARE fighting are probably on the extreme side of things...

and like you I doubt they are 'moderate'...


.


#37    Dark_Grey

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 18 June 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

See you at Sochi on the ice next year. We will beat USA in semi final, then you :)

:w00t:

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#38    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 15 June 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Watch out!!  You are surrounded.



Amazing vid.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."




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