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If Aliens are really intervening with human


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#31    Zaphod222

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:40 AM

To answer your thread question: No, not really.

Edited by Zaphod222, 18 June 2013 - 07:40 AM.

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#32    DeWitz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostSquidfish, on 18 June 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Or, the aliens know that we don't have the economy for a viable space program - private or not - to go anywhere except perhaps the moon, and that's stretching it... :)



I never understood this logic. Only in our galaxy there are probably thousands of planets with similar conditions as Earth - what is it that makes us so special? Who can we threaten? And if that is the case, then why not do something about it? Say, instead of destruction, perhaps reformation? Benevolent dictatorship?



With all the hoaxes going around, is it so strange that people want hard proof?

That's why I referred to it as a "theory." But humor me, or it (the theory) for a moment. If the USA has sought, since 1945, to be the "world's policeman," well, we're making a muck of it. The world is as violent as ever before and the earth is as defiled as ever before. Why would it come as a "logical" surprise that a cosmic, galactic or universal Peace-Ensuring nation or planet would seek to nip us in the bud. The whole idea is to stop our infiltration into the cosmos before it happens--in disease prevention this is called "prophylaxis." The idea is to remove a problem before it festers and worsens, like the surgeon's scalpel excises the tumor or heavy-duty chemotherapy kills the aberrant cells. Perhaps UFO's are some form of gigantic electro-magnetic ectoplasmic condom to seal us off from other planets, other populations, other environs?

I don't find anything illogical about that thinking. It may be fantastical, but that's another issue. Remember that I was observing cultural patterns of interpretation of this stuff over time, not discussing my personal opinions on the matter. I agree that it is reasonable for people to require proof before belief.

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#33    Macroramphosis

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:49 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 18 June 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Few are willing to discuss this aspect, please go on. Surely a spaceship should go into space at some point?

Who says they are spaceships ?

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#34    DeWitz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

View PostMacroramphosis, on 18 June 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Who says they are spaceships ?

Are we suggesting extradimensional or perceptually multi-valent beings of some sort? C'mon, give boyo a clue here. . .

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#35    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:20 AM

View PostMacroramphosis, on 18 June 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Who says they are spaceships ?

According to the more vocal proponents, the pilots of said  ships, the speculations of musings such as the Condon report, and any UFOlogist.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#36    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:59 AM

When will it ever stop? The UFO`s are driven by All our past War Hero`s THey all went to the Big Fighter Pilot club in the Heavens !

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#37    Macroramphosis

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:38 AM

But as you say, if they are not seen in space then how can they be spaceships ?
_________________________________________________________________________

My apologies, I'm being obtuse :)  But seriously, if they are not seen entering and leaving space, where do they go ?

We have four possibilities :

1) They accelerate to their cruising speed while still in earth's atmosphere and literally disappear at whatever speed it is that they travel at - if they really are alien spaceships then this would make sense. I mean if you're going to escape earth's gravity then why wait, or alternatively as they seem to make fun of earth's gravity then why not get on with it while you can. The assumption that these speeds are enormous sits well with those who believe that UFO's have some extraordinary form of propulsion that can transfer them between galaxies in minutes.

2) They are inter-dimensional craft, or multi-dimensional craft, and as such can disappear at the blink of an eye, which is what many people say they have seen UFO's do.

3) They are terrestrial craft and stay here on our planet.

4) UFO's do not exist at all and are the figment of people's imaginations, be they humble peasants in Poland examining boreholes in their fields, or highly-trained air force personnel at high altitudes. Indeed, if UFO's do not exist at all what a waste of money it has been (and for some still is) for so many countries to have employed so many people in so many different capacities in so many different agencies over the past 70 years or so. How can all of those hundreds of thousands of people be so deluded ?

Personally, I find it immensely interesting that UFO's have become so prevalent since mankind reached his nuclear age. The close association that many historical records show between UFO's and military installations and bases is not maybe just a"normal" relationship that a martial race might employ as a  surveillance tactic, but perhaps a clue as to where these "spaceships" originate. After all, we're currently only at danger of reducing one planet to rubble......

Edited by Macroramphosis, 19 June 2013 - 03:58 AM.

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#38    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:58 AM

View PostMacroramphosis, on 19 June 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

But as you say, if they are not seen in space then how can they be spaceships ?

Not as I say, the records speak for themselves. So I propose that UFO's are not spaceships. So what is the connection with ET? Does one actually exist outside of anecdotes?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#39    ambelamba

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:39 AM

I came up with this thread because there are more than a few UFOlogists who claim that Earth is under quarantine.

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#40    conspiracy buff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 June 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

Not as I say, the records speak for themselves. So I propose that UFO's are not spaceships. So what is the connection with ET? Does one actually exist outside of anecdotes?

Believe it or not, there does exist something called circumstantial evidence.  And while circumstantial evidence does not constitute hard proof, it is very convincing that something is going on with the UFO and ET phenomena.  There have been numerous incidents like Roswell, Rendlesham Forrest, Shag Harbour, Kecksburg Pennsylvania, and on and on.  Not to mention the "alien abduction" field of study.  Just as a person can be guilty of a crime solely on circumstantial evidence alone, so can Ufology claim ETs exist because of the broad spectrum of it.  Every country, state, and town all over the world have witnessed UFOs and aliens from recorded history up until present day.  Hoaxes exist in Ufology just like in every other field of study, which is nothing new to anyone studying this topic.  However, the 5-10% of unexplained case where trace evidence, credible witnesses, and other circumstantial evidence exists is the part that needs more serious scientific study and to do that, we have to approach everything with an open mind.  I'm not advocating that you believe everything that is proposed because that would be naïve and gullible.  But all of these witnesses and events do seem to indicate something very real and something we should be focused on understanding more than ridiculing.  I'm sure you'll disagree but that is the truth of the matter here.  Whether you believe UFOs and ETs are fake or not isn't the real issue.  The issue is something is going on and the people of this planet need to know what that is through due diligence and careful study of this phenomena.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#41    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:08 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Believe it or not, there does exist something called circumstantial evidence.  And while circumstantial evidence does not constitute hard proof, it is very convincing that something is going on with the UFO and ET phenomena.  

That I do not deny, what I deny is a connection between the two, which as far as I can tell is a man made connection and does not actually exist. UFO's exist, we have billions of examples from all the way up in the Hessdalen Vally right back down to here in Australia with the Min Min phenomena. Statistics propose a very high likelihood that other life exists, but as far as actual proof goes of this proclamation, we have naught. But nothing actually connects the two besides human imagination.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

There have been numerous incidents like Roswell, Rendlesham Forrest, Shag Harbour, Kecksburg Pennsylvania, and on and on.  Not to mention the "alien abduction" field of study.  Just as a person can be guilty of a crime solely on circumstantial evidence alone, so can Ufology claim ETs exist because of the broad spectrum of it.  

And each and every one have a mundane alternate earthly explanation which the more zealous proponents seem to take offence to. I assume their "religion: is being insulted.
The Abduction field has recognised and observed sleep paralysis, as well as a range of anxiety and sleeping disorders, but all those machines with all those wires hooked up to all those people have not found any night marauding aliens to date. I would not call it "circumstantial" I would call it "fabricated" evidence that connects such to ET in any way.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Every country, state, and town all over the world have witnessed UFOs and aliens from recorded history up until present day.  Hoaxes exist in Ufology just like in every other field of study, which is nothing new to anyone studying this topic.  

If it is global, why can the answer not be indigenous as well?

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

However, the 5-10% of unexplained case where trace evidence, credible witnesses, and other circumstantial evidence exists is the part that needs more serious scientific study and to do that, we have to approach everything with an open mind.  

Serious study has always been carried out, and continues to today. McDonalds speech "Science In Default" made some wild and untrue claims that UFOLogists hold high even today as if it is relevant to anything more than McDonald's poor jailed mind.

Amazing such a rubbish speech can continue through to present times, but then again, desperation knows no bounds. Faithful ETH'ers will take what they can get, be it relevant, valid, or not.

Why can't the 5% have earthly origins? Surely suggesting such is sensible, yet it is seen as heretical?

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

I'm not advocating that you believe everything that is proposed because that would be naïve and gullible.  But all of these witnesses and events do seem to indicate something very real and something we should be focused on understanding more than ridiculing.  I'm sure you'll disagree but that is the truth of the matter here.  

Indeed it would be, surely none would offer such foolish advice.

I agree they indicate something, just not aliens. The evidence that does exist does not support this conclusion.

Man is the lowest common denominator here. I think that very fact is overlooked by all ETH proponents.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Whether you believe UFOs and ETs are fake or not isn't the real issue.  The issue is something is going on and the people of this planet need to know what that is through due diligence and careful study of this phenomena.

Like the Hessdalen Project, like Professor Pettigrews Min MIn work, yes I agree, but I think we should stop wasting time with wet dreamers and fantasy prone people and look at the phenomena in earnest. All the credulous do is waste time and resources insisting professional people chase fantasies. It's a massive roadblock to knowledge. Heck, McDonald is the primary one who shut down Phil Klass' work on Plasma, and held the field back a good 40 years! The ETH is damaging to progress, not assisting it.


ETA, I wanted to mention I thought this was one of your better posts CB. Good effort.

Edited by psyche101, 19 June 2013 - 07:11 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#42    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:44 PM

I think Ron`s right ! Were on the Dont bother List ! E.T stays far,Far away from this rock ! Theres even a Big Sign on the Dark Side of the Moon That Says " On this Planet the Third Rock from the Sun Lives a Very,Very dangerous Race of Beings, They Eat Eveerything in sight !" :alien: :no: :alien:

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#43    Squidfish

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:46 AM

View PostMacroramphosis, on 18 June 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Ok, so I'll rephrase that then - what is hard proof ?

psyche101 beat me to it in the post above, but I'll add another question. How exactly should science proceed with the investigation of UFO's and such phenomena? I agree that there is a phenomenon, but that it is unclear as to what exactly (or rather generally) it is. The problem with the whole thing is not only that hoaxers have practically hijacked the subject, but that the subject is more or less un-researchable, so to say. Does it come from space? From earth? From humans? What area should we concentrate on? Astronomy? Geology? Political studies and social sciences? Well, aren't science doing all of them right now?  

View Postszentgyorgy, on 18 June 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

The world is as violent as ever before and the earth is as defiled as ever before.

I think that is a matter of perspective, and sure enough, the world isn't perfect, but it is a lot better than it has ever been. Ordinary people have much more power over their lives and their society than they ever did. Will it hold? That's unknown.

Besides, if there are aliens out there, they most likely also went through just the same ordeal as we do now.


Quote

Why would it come as a "logical" surprise that a cosmic, galactic or universal Peace-Ensuring nation or planet would seek to nip us in the bud. The whole idea is to stop our infiltration into the cosmos before it happens--in disease prevention this is called "prophylaxis."

Well, then educate us! Threaten us and say that "don't go to space or we'll do this" and do something to scare us of! :)

But really, if they compare us with the likeness of what a human is to a fly, then humans are not much more than the dust that flies in the air. I mean, what demands can we make to them? How exactly do we threaten to "infiltrate" space? Just take a quick look on any space program on earth, and the best prospect of anything being done in space is slim to none.

Quote

Perhaps UFO's are some form of gigantic electro-magnetic ectoplasmic condom to seal us off from other planets, other populations, other environs?

How have UFOs stopped humans from doing anything?

Quote

I agree that it is reasonable for people to require proof before belief.

I just think it's a non-theory; there haven't been any outside obstruction to anything humans have ever done.


#44    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:18 PM

I think the thing going on with the whole UFO thing is hard to place, because depending on who you ask there two completely different things, Terrence Mckenna thought that they were creations of the mind, sort of like tulpas where once you've dwelled on something long enough then that something becomes real.  I know he wasnt a scientist of any kind, but the brain is a powerful thing, and even now they dont know all there is to know about the brain.  Then theres people like Jacques Vallée that think the whole UFO phenomena is paranormal in nature.  Then you have the people  that blame all the occurances on things like sleep paralysis and other nighttime occurances, and that most reported UFO's can be explained away fairly easily ( which is true in most cases ). But I do find it funny that If there were aliens observing us or doing any of the things mentioned in earlier posts, why wouldnt they atleast show themselves because theres only one reason that I could see them remaining secretive ( If there here or ever where here ) and thats that there malevolent.

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#45    Macroramphosis

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 20 June 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think the thing going on with the whole UFO thing is hard to place, because depending on who you ask there two completely different things, Terrence Mckenna thought that they were creations of the mind, sort of like tulpas where once you've dwelled on something long enough then that something becomes real.  I know he wasnt a scientist of any kind, but the brain is a powerful thing, and even now they dont know all there is to know about the brain.  Then theres people like Jacques Vallée that think the whole UFO phenomena is paranormal in nature.  Then you have the people  that blame all the occurances on things like sleep paralysis and other nighttime occurances, and that most reported UFO's can be explained away fairly easily ( which is true in most cases ). But I do find it funny that If there were aliens observing us or doing any of the things mentioned in earlier posts, why wouldnt they atleast show themselves because theres only one reason that I could see them remaining secretive ( If there here or ever where here ) and thats that there malevolent.

I think you may have miscounted. The first line should read "four things". Three you have counted, and the fourth is of course that UFO's may actually be solid objects from this dimension.

And, **cough**, at the bottom where you have put "only one reason", I think there may be another. They don't want us to find concrete proof about them. And for that, there may be many reasons not the least of which is they have no wish to integrate with us as they think WE are malevolent.

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