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US considering syrian 'no fly zone'


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#61    and then

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:57 AM

View PostThanato, on 16 June 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

The US did in fact attack Civilians. They attacked Loyalists and forced many of them to leave the US and migrate to British North America (What is now Canada).

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#62    Papagiorgio

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:30 PM

View Postdanielost, on 16 June 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Yes, the rebels hid behind trees and bushes.  While the british tried to fight old world style.  The only difference between the two time periods, is the americans did not attack civilians, the british did, accordihng to thhe movie, the patriot.
Contrary to what many of us were taught in school the colonials did field "regular" armies as well. The majority of the battle fought in the American Revolution were fought old world style. Consequently the colonies lost most of them. Washington only won 3 of the 9 battles he fought.

I'm just saying.

#63    danielost

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostPapagiorgio, on 17 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:


Contrary to what many of us were taught in school the colonials did field "regular" armies as well. The majority of the battle fought in the American Revolution were fought old world style. Consequently the colonies lost most of them. Washington only won 3 of the 9 battles he fought.

One battle was against a sleeping garison. Another, he had the french fleet backing him.  That was the most important one.

But, that doesn't really change the fact, that all rebels are terriosts.

Edited by danielost, 17 June 2013 - 04:23 PM.

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#64    Papagiorgio

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:27 PM

View Postdanielost, on 17 June 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

But, that doesn't really change the fact, that all rebels are terriosts.
I disagree. As long as the "rebels" focus their acts of violence on military targets, I would call them rebels. Once they start attacking civilian targets(buses, libraries, cafes), they cross the line into terrorist.

I'm just saying.

#65    and then

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

Papa that was also a perfect description of what we did to Germany and Japan in WWII.  They even referred to it as terror bombing, I think.  We justified it as "breaking the enemy's will" but it amounts to the same thing.  I think we are basically screwed unless we are willing to be as animalistic as our adversaries.  Pyrrhic victory is a phrase that comes to mind.  The saddest thing is that if we DON'T meet them on their field then they will dominate us and the world will slip into a darkness unknown since the middle ages.

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#66    Low Mage

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:33 AM

If the no-fly zone option is returned to the table it will have to be done unilaterally or coalitional without the backing of the UN.

Quote

Russia, a veto-wielding member of the U.N. Security Council, will not permit no-fly zones to be imposed over Syria, Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said on Monday.

"I think we fundamentally will not allow this scenario," Lukashevich told a news briefing, adding that calls for a no-fly zone showed disrespect for international law.

*snip*

Russia "nyet" to Syria no-fly zones


#67    bee

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

.


http://www.guardian....ia-breakthrough


Quote

Hopes that the G8 summit would set out a clear route map to end the bloody civil war in Syria have been dashed after Vladimir Putin, insisted he could not back a peace conference convened on the assumption that the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, would step down.


Quote

The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, speaking in Kuwait, said holding the planned peace conference should not imply any capitulation on the part of the Syrian regime.
"We are categorically against … assertions that the conference should be some kind of public act of capitulation by the government delegation followed by a handing over of power to the opposition."
He said it was essential that the result of the conference should be a transitional government containing members of opposition groups and representatives of the current regime. Britain, the US and France have always said members of the Assad regime had to attend the talks, alongside the divided Syrian National Council.
Lavrov hit out at the west for undermining the realisation of the conference by giving material support to the rebels and beginning to call for a no-fly zone over Syria.


the Russians aren't backing down.....

there's a video on the link above...with the G8 leaders (minus ties) trying unsuccessfully to wave in unison... :)




.


#68    and then

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:10 PM

The Russians and the Chinese are adamant about non interference because they know that this strategy could well be used against them in future.  In THAT much I actually agree with them.  A sovereign nation should not be pressured into going against it's own precepts EXCEPT where their actions are infringing on the safety or freedoms of other nations.  I believe that the support for Syrian pres Assad is about one thing primarily...Tartus.  Putin is flexing his muscles and if the west decides to try him there is no telling where this ends.  If he wins here though, I wonder where he will press next?  And is he deluded enough to think he can over reach and a weak US pres will be easy pickings?  All sorts of dangers in this situation.  I see real potential for a nuclear confrontation through misadventure.  Scary times....

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#69    seeder

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:11 PM

View Postbee, on 18 June 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

.


http://www.guardian....ia-breakthrough








the Russians aren't backing down.....

there's a video on the link above...with the G8 leaders (minus ties) trying unsuccessfully to wave in unison... :)




.

Good for Putin!!

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#70    bee

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:17 PM

View Postseeder, on 18 June 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Good for Putin!!

yes good for him....

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#71    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:21 PM

View Postand then, on 18 June 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

I see real potential for a nuclear confrontation through misadventure.  Scary times....
Not going to happen. Didn't happen in even worse parts of cold war. Anyway, if this is the fear that Putin is held in, then good, as the battle is half won.


#72    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

View Postand then, on 18 June 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

The Russians and the Chinese are adamant about non interference because they know that this strategy could well be used against them in future
By who, and do they have their graves dug and coffins ready, as they will need many. You suggest American adventurism to control Russia and or China. You do that and you will start a war. That is the only qualification to my words in the preceding post, "Not going to happen". When America realises it does not rule the world, and never will, then we may have some peace. Neither Russia or China have threatened America, though from America's words and actions you would think they had. Too many Americans still live in cold war, wake up.......


#73    acidhead

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 18 June 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

By who, and do they have their graves dug and coffins ready, as they will need many. You suggest American adventurism to control Russia and or China. You do that and you will start a war. That is the only qualification to my words in the preceding post, "Not going to happen". When America realises it does not rule the world, and never will, then we may have some peace. Neither Russia or China have threatened America, though from America's words and actions you would think they had. Too many Americans still live in cold war, wake up.......

no doubt.... lol

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#74    Colonel Rhubarb

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:59 PM

View Postand then, on 18 June 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

The Russians and the Chinese are adamant about non interference because they know that this strategy could well be used against them in future. In THAT much I actually agree with them. A sovereign nation should not be pressured into going against it's own precepts EXCEPT where their actions are infringing on the safety or freedoms of other nations. I believe that the support for Syrian pres Assad is about one thing primarily...Tartus. Putin is flexing his muscles and if the west decides to try him there is no telling where this ends. If he wins here though, I wonder where he will press next? And is he deluded enough to think he can over reach and a weak US pres will be easy pickings? All sorts of dangers in this situation. I see real potential for a nuclear confrontation through misadventure. Scary times....
i hardly think a former KGB officer who's managed to remain in power, under various titles, since 2000 is deluded enough to try anything daft. In fact, he's perhaps the most experienced leader of a country of any significance in the world. I suspect that also means that he wouldn't be likely to over-react if a "democratic" leader with no previous significant experience of any kind was to try anything over-amibtious/daft.

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#75    and then

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 18 June 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

i hardly think a former KGB officer who's managed to remain in power, under various titles, since 2000 is deluded enough to try anything daft. In fact, he's perhaps the most experienced leader of a country of any significance in the world. I suspect that also means that he wouldn't be likely to over-react if a "democratic" leader with no previous significant experience of any kind was to try anything over-amibtious/daft.
Have you actually paid attention to the man lately?  Even when Oby tried making a small joke to lighten the mood a bit yesterday he rebuffed him in a way that was quite rude and uncalled for in that setting.  I'm not saying rooty Poot is all that - I'm saying I'm beginning to think that he BELIEVES he IS all that.  And that could cause a miscalculation.  Whatever the USSR once was - Russia is NOT.  I am no Russo phobe - whatever Tut boy thinks... but the only reason Russia has international standing these days is their nuclear weapons arsenal.  They create nothing of value in the world...help in no consequential ways I'm aware of though I'd gladly listen if any can be tabled.  The KGB man is a thug in a suit and he's punching way above his weight because America has a useless waste of carbon sitting in the Oval office these days.  The one thing Oby DOES have though, is an ego and if Pootin pushes him publicly too far it just might cause a mess.

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