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The "Truth" vs. National Pride

cover-ups; conspiracies

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#1    DeWitz

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:26 AM

Some folks in the "Space & Astronomy" forum noted the probable element of preserving Soviet pride in hiding the actual cause of cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin's death (due to accident/misadventure). I was reminded of the obvious erosion of US President Ronald Reagan's mental acuity during his second term, later confirmed as the onset of the Alzheimer's Disease which finally took the Gipper. I'm convinced that many cases of national vanity concealing the truth abound in history, ancient and modern. I am interested in your responses as to how many so-called "conspiracies" might be simple governmental 'CYA' pride-ops.

[previously incarnate as 'szentgyorgy']

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#2    and then

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:52 AM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 17 June 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

Some folks in the "Space & Astronomy" forum noted the probable element of preserving Soviet pride in hiding the actual cause of cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin's death (due to accident/misadventure). I was reminded of the obvious erosion of US President Ronald Reagan's mental acuity during his second term, later confirmed as the onset of the Alzheimer's Disease which finally took the Gipper. I'm convinced that many cases of national vanity concealing the truth abound in history, ancient and modern. I am interested in your responses as to how many so-called "conspiracies" might be simple governmental 'CYA' pride-ops.
Well....governments are just the pride. prejudice and general foibles of human beings writ larger so I'd say many if not most such "conspiracies" had a beginning because someone wanted to save themselves embarrassment or worse.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#3    nothinglizx2

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:44 AM

The truth is an ugly stain when it comes to dirty laundry.  If you crap your underwear, you want to hide the evidence.  So you take them off and you ditch em somewhere, so that when you walk in front of everyone you can play it cool and say "I'm free ballen"  Our government and corporations are the same way.  If they got dirty laundry that somehow got aired, they find ways to minimize it.  In many cases they use national pride.  It's far easier for everyone to accept if you pass something dishonorable off as something honorable.

The truth is an ugly stain when it comes to dirty laundry.  If you crap your underwear, you want to hide the evidence.  So you take them off and you ditch em somewhere, so that when you walk in front of everyone you can play it cool and say "I'm free ballen"  Our government and corporations are the same way.  If they got dirty laundry that somehow got aired, they find ways to minimize it.  In many cases they use national pride.  It's far easier for everyone to accept if you pass something dishonorable off as something honorable.


#4    preacherman76

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:36 AM

I cringe when I look back at the first couple weeks of the Iraq war. I was actualy happy and cheering as we bombed major cities night and day in our "shock and awe" campaign. They had me so full of national pride that I couldnt see what was bad about murdering at least hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I cant believe what a sheep I was.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#5    DeWitz

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:51 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 17 June 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I cringe when I look back at the first couple weeks of the Iraq war. I was actualy happy and cheering as we bombed major cities night and day in our "shock and awe" campaign. They had me so full of national pride that I couldnt see what was bad about murdering at least hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I cant believe what a sheep I was.

Preach tells it like it is. I remember those nights in front of the tube---"Shock and awe. . ." Then I remembered my grammar school experience of practicing "Duck--and cover!" during repeated nuclear air raid drills. The I realized I was paying taxes to force Iraqi children, women, elderly and other non-combatants to "Duck--and cover!" under our "conventional," more-power-ful-than-Dresden aerial assault of bombs--'smart' and stupid, and missiles--all of them aimed cynically and packed full of TNT, lies and death.

Preach has the hang of it. . .

[previously incarnate as 'szentgyorgy']

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#6    Babe Ruth

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

A good thread topic.  Yes, National Pride aka Nationalism allows many sins to be committed and rationalized.  So too the idea of american exceptionalism, a specious and pernicious theory.

I love my country, but the idea that we are somehow superior to others is not really true.


#7    DeWitz

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 17 June 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

A good thread topic.  Yes, National Pride aka Nationalism allows many sins to be committed and rationalized.  So too the idea of american exceptionalism, a specious and pernicious theory.

I love my country, but the idea that we are somehow superior to others is not really true.

Absolutely true.

[previously incarnate as 'szentgyorgy']

"Things fall apart. . . it's scientific." - Talking Heads

#8    Kowalski

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 17 June 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

A good thread topic.  Yes, National Pride aka Nationalism allows many sins to be committed and rationalized.  So too the idea of american exceptionalism, a specious and pernicious theory.

I love my country, but the idea that we are somehow superior to others is not really true.

I got to agree with you on that. But, remember, it wasn't just America who did this. The British Empire, and Germany are very good examples, also. But not the end of the list I'm afraid....


#9    lightly

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:13 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 17 June 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I cringe when I look back at the first couple weeks of the Iraq war. I was actualy happy and cheering as we bombed major cities night and day in our "shock and awe" campaign. They had me so full of national pride that I couldnt see what was bad about murdering at least hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I cant believe what a sheep I was.

   I could hardly believe it was happening and  I couldn't believe that  'we'  were doing it!    It did't make sense then and it still doesn't.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#10    Likely Guy

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:30 AM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 17 June 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

I'm convinced that many cases of national vanity concealing the truth abound in history, ancient and modern. I am interested in your responses as to how many so-called "conspiracies" might be simple governmental 'CYA' pride-ops.
Conspiracies do exist, they always have. A 'pride-ops', as you say, is probably the most common.





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