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Suicide is NEVER the Answer !


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#31    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Suicide is actually listed as a side-effect of many anti-depressants commonly prescribed by doctors in the US.  So "we are over-medicated" as a reason to not seek medication isn't necessarily a driver of suicide.  It's more likely the reverse.
This is probably a statistical effect that suicidal people are the ones who get the prescriptions.


#32    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:43 PM

View Postsoulpowertothenthdegree, on 17 June 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:



No suicide is not attributed to mental illness.  It is attributed to a lack of desire to overcome adversity.
You must be a psychologist then?

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#33    Ashotep

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

I don't know where you get that suicides are tied to materialistic attitudes and vanity.  They are usually tied to depression, a chemical imbalance in the brain, hopelessness and the feeling of not being wanted, not being able to change whatever is causing you to think about it or do it.  Its caused by mental illness.

Sometimes the medication you are taking can cause a person to commit suicide but if no one took medication for depression I have a feeling there would be far more.  I also don't see committing suicide as cowardly either.

Lack of mental health care is the leading cause of suicide and murder.  You wouldn't expect cancer just to go away on its own so why do people think mental illness will.  Its still a disease.


#34    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:52 PM

I did some checking about suicidal feelings being a reported side-effect of depression medications.  I don't think that is accurate.  To be sure anyone with depression has to be warned to call their doctor if the develop such thoughts, but that would apply whether they are medicated or not.


#35    Zaphod222

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:54 PM

View Postsoulpowertothenthdegree, on 17 June 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

People that think suicide is a solution are in for a rude awakening; you only prolong and increase your degree of difficulty and the evolutionary process of your soul.

That is simply an opinion pulled out of nowhere. You can pontificate about this all you want, but you have no basis for any claims that you make either way. Zip, zilch, zero.

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#36    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 17 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

You must be a psychologist then?
You do us a great favor making such a clear statement of the thinking that wrong with so much of society's views on this subject.  You enable them to be whacked at so easily.


#37    Beany

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

View Postsoulpowertothenthdegree, on 17 June 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

While it is possible to have a medical condition that affects your hormonal imbalances, mainly...not hardly.  Certainly getting help is optimal in any suicidal tendencies, but we are an over medicated society that has an excuse for every behavior.  Suicide is a cop-out for those that are unable to cope.  The mentality is learned behavior from a society that has placed more emphasis on material values and vanity.  When we fail to live up to these supposed important ideologies there is a tendency to feel as though we have failed.

Sometimes depression is caused by a biochemical imbalance in the body, so I don't see how this relates to material value and vanity. We may be an over-medicated society, IDK, but I believe there is a time & place for meds, and I can recall at least two instances in which I'm sure meds kept alive two people whom I love after years of being on the brink and talk-down phone calls with them. They both believed they were screwed up somehow because they weren't happy, which made them feel worse, but having known these people for a couple of decades, even I, who am not big on meds, could see that there was a physical component to their depression. Whatever it takes to keep this two people alive on this planet, I'm all for.


#38    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

I agree with what you say but I don't understand your bit about "big on meds."  No one in their right mind should be "big on meds."  Take what you need when and where you need them, listen closely to instructions, and then double-check at reliable sites on the internet.

As we get older, we need more and more meds.  I'm diabetic so I take one med to not have to take insulin, three other meds for blood pressure, and a statin and a baby aspirin.  Is this "over-medicated?"  I think it is just prudent.

Medicines for depression are something again.  They tend to mess up your sex life, which may or may not be desirable (I'm a widower and so didn't really care), but other than that they are great.  I don't take them now but I did for about ten years in the past and they saved my life.  You don't really notice what they are doing, except one day you realize it has been weeks since you thought about suicide.  Otherwise nothing really changes that you notice -- it's all perspective.


#39    Copasetic

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 June 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I did some checking about suicidal feelings being a reported side-effect of depression medications.  I don't think that is accurate.  To be sure anyone with depression has to be warned to call their doctor if the develop such thoughts, but that would apply whether they are medicated or not.

During a clinical trial any adverse medical event will get reported and ends up as a possible adverse event on the label. This doesn't necessarily mean that the adverse event was the result of the medication during trial. Only that it is potentially an adverse event. So one does have to look at the patient population being prescribed psychotropic drugs: people statistically more likely to commit suicide than the general population at large. That probably does have a lot to do with it however....

There is also more to it. Part of a major depressive episode normally involves psychomotor retardation, anhedonia, loss of energy, etc. While people who are depressed often have a preoccupation with death or suicidal ideation, sometimes their depression itself keeps them from acting on those urges. When their down, they are so down they just can't get up and do anything about it. This can sometimes create a dangerous situation when using antidepressants, where a patient still is having depressing thoughts, SI, preoccupations with death etc, but some of the symptoms of a depressive episode resolve: like psychomotor retardation, lack of energy etc. So it creates a small window when a person maybe depressed enough to want to commit suicide and now have the energy to do it.

This is of course why antidepressants shouldn't be given out all willy-nilly and by a trained provider. This is why a safety plan and/or concomitant psychotherapy (such as CBT) should be used and the patient followed up on by their prescriber regularly.

A similar phenomena occurs in other mental illness with a higher risk for suicide. Such as bipolar depression (as opposed to unipolar depression, aka major depressive disorder). In bipolar depression individuals cycle through manic (elevated) or hypomanic (slightly elevated) states and depression. Rapid cyclers or people who have a manic episode temporally close to a depressive episode are at their greatest risk for suicide for the same reasons above: that they have the energy to act on their thoughts. Another dangerous states can occur in individuals who experience mixed episodes (mania+depression).


As to the OP: ignorance and garbage.

If you know someone who is depressed or suicidal encourage them to seek professional medical help. Risks to watch out for suicide can be remembered with the mnemonic SAD PERSONS:

Sex (males are more likely to complete a suicide than females because they often choose more lethal means, like guns), Age (there is a bimodal distribution; elderly and teens), concurrent Depression, Previous attempts, Ethanol (alcohol)/drug use (because it impairs judgement and coping skills), Rational thinking loss (ie; people experiencing a psychotic break, manic episode, depressive episode with psychotic features, etc), Social supports (people with few/little support networks), Organized plan (people with an organized plan are much more likely to carry it out, this is why these individuals get an automatic 72 hr hold), No spouse/partner (people living a lone with no spouse an no partner are more likely--kind of goes with social support), Sick (people with medical problems, often not even terminal, just complicated ones are more likely).

The way to approach people is to not be judgmental, be understanding and empathetic and encourage them to get professional help--ie; to speak with a doctor or psychotherapist.

Edited by Copasetic, 17 June 2013 - 07:09 PM.


#40    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:17 PM

what about those people that try to commit suicide and fail at it, That must be even more depressing

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#41    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 17 June 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

what about those people that try to commit suicide and fail at it, That must be even more depressing

They are the ones who failed their misguided soul classes...



Sorry for the humour, but when I read the OP note - Misguided souls it made me laugh a little   Just the term used ( misguided souls )  and not suicide itself .

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#42    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:30 PM

Do you think that Kamikaze were mentally ill?

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#43    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 17 June 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

They are the ones who failed their misguided soul classes...



Sorry for the humour, but when I read the OP note - Misguided souls it made me laugh a little   Just the term used ( misguided souls )  and not suicide itself .
But I mean If your really gonna kill yourself I  would think you could get the job done, I mean how hard is it to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x, 17 June 2013 - 07:31 PM.

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#44    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:32 PM

View Postthe L, on 17 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Do you think that Kamikaze were mentally ill?
Hmmmm  I dont think they were.

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x, 17 June 2013 - 07:32 PM.

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#45    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 17 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

But I mean If your really gonna kill yourself I  would think you could get the job done, I mean how hard is it to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.

It could be a matter of (after finally  working up the courage to do it in the first place ) once seeing it fail, maybe they feel that they were not meant to do it  OR it could be a sign that they didn't have as much courage as they thought.. Suicide takes a lot of guts...  Not everyone can access a gun either..

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