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Why is the ancient astronaut theory ridiculed


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#16    scowl

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:33 PM

We older people went through the "Ancient Astronauts" fad back in the 70's. We had books and movies and syndicated television specials. We saw the exact same paintings of "aliens" and "spaceships", the same crude structures that only aliens could have built (wrong), and of course the ancient airport where aliens landed their spaceships. It was a bunch of pseudoscientific crap which was quickly disproved and only made a crook rich.

No surprise that a new generation is ready to buy into the same scam.


#17    scowl

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

My old thread on the classic Chariots of the Gods movie has lots of links explaining the "evidence" presented in the movie which was close to the book. If the new Ancient Astronaut fad is using the same stuff, this might save you some time looking things up.


#18    JesseCuster

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:41 PM

View Posteley, on 20 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

So, how is it so hard in peoples minds to believe that we were put here by people just like us, millions of years ago.. people who are beings just like us but far far more advanced, who created us in their image. Does it make them the `gods of the world`? certainly not..  does it make them our creators? yes, but gods of everything no?
It's not that it's hard to believe.  It's just it's obvious we were not "put here".  There is fossil evidence of homo sapiens going back 200,000 years ago and of other ancestor species going back millions of years.  Why would they "put us here" millions of years before giving us the technology you say they might have.  In such a way that it would look like a slow and gradual evolution from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, and before that with gorillas, and before that with orangutans, etc.   The alternative is of course that they came down and tinkered with us genetically to advance our evolution and then left us to our own devices, but that's based upon misunderstanding of genetics, misinformed claims to do with blood types and quote-mining of genetics researchers and is not the same thing as "being put here"

Also of interest to note is that the "technology" they gave us is examples like Incan architecture of Egyptian pyramids or huge obelisks, etc. that people claim couldn't have been made with the technology of the time.

Really?  These aliens came to show us how to build impressive things out of stone?  Not how to make make carbon steel, the internal combustion engine, transistors, lasers, steel frame construction, jet engines, etc.  No, they came to show us how to make big buildings out of stone better than before.  Gee, thanks.

No, all the truly impressive technology we have created (the Internet, MRI scanners, eradicating smallpox, antibiotics, etc.) is the result of slow gradual build-up of scientific knowledge and technology over the ages, not that of aliens intervening and providing us with science and technology.

Quote

HOWEVER, us being created by advanced beings who come to earth every so often, makes far more sense and answers far more questions than believing in a scripture that has been re-written countless times, or in a scientific theory which is full of flaws.
I'll leave others to explain to you your total misunderstanding of big bang theory, but I will ask you this - what makes you think it's a choice between accepting ancient aliens OR big bang theory?  The big bang theory says nothing about human evolution or the history of mankind.  Aliens coming to earth and tinkering with our genetics or giving us technology is 100% compatible with big bang theory (which is a theory about the early history and evolution of the universe).

The question isn't why someone shouldn't believe the AA theory, it's why they should.  You yourself are making excuses for why there's no evidence.  If something happens with no evidence of it happening, why believe it happened at all?

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

"If people put enough excrement in one pile they think they can safely claim that there must be something other than excrement in a pile that big." - stereologist

#19    JesseCuster

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostFarmer77, on 20 June 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

I think it's a combination of lack of concrete evidence and as Charles Fort said "science has done its utmost to prevent whatever science has done". Any theory outside the current socio-scientific paradigm is unimaginable to the initiated.
Yet Galileo, Darwin, Hubble, etc. all won out in the end despite the fierce opposition to them in the beginning.  For every Galileo there's a thousand cranks claiming to be the next Galileo being put down by "the establishment".

Edited by JesseCuster, 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

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#20    HDesiato

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:54 PM

View Posteley, on 20 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Hi,  My question (can not fit it all into the subject topic headline as it has limited words) is, why is the ancient astronaut theory mocked and downplayed so much.

Now, if we can forget about the tv program where funny looking people are calling everything that we do not understand `aliens` or `help from aliens` etc. And look at the facts.

You, or the vast majority of humanity, have since the begining of time believed in a `god` based on somebody else`s word or account.  Or, in recent-ish times, the big bang.

Neither of these make much sense and require VERY open minds. Ie what formed the conditions for the big bang in the first place and how likely is it that all this around us `just so happened` to form from the big bang.  All this nature formed from a few cells, and just so happened to form the way we see the universe and people and animals and life around us? how much of a coincidence is that.

At the same time, the whole religion thing, following the written words of somebody from thousands of years, from a book which we know was passed down orally for hundreds of years, and then written and re-written possibly a few hundred times until now. To say that somewhere along the line people may manipulate or add in their own little twist to the bible, is a bit of an understatement.


Anyway to cut to the chase this is not an arguement about religion, heck i have no issue with people believe in a god.  The point is that the two big mainstream beliefs (religions, and the scientific belief of big bang), both themselves require a VERY open mind if you are going to use them as the be all and end all of why we are here.

So, how is it so hard in peoples minds to believe that we were put here by people just like us, millions of years ago.. people who are beings just like us but far far more advanced, who created us in their image. Does it make them the `gods of the world`? certainly not..  does it make them our creators? yes, but gods of everything no?
Let me give you an example.. if we clone a sheep, then we can pat ourseleves on the back and say we created a sheep but... does that make us gods? of course not.  Same thing.

There is a very strong and obvious suggestion that whoever is running this dance that we call our reality...   is no more a `god` than you and i.

Let `us ` create man in `our` image
`And the sons of god mated the daughters of earth`   (why would gods or the sons of gods need sex)
`I am the only god no other`  ..  sounds rather spiteful and jelous  no?
`Believe in me or die`...     I mean come on, why would a `creator of all` be so bothered if his creations believe in him.

Another point is that in the jewish bible and scriptures..  god never appears to moses in his form, he always appears through fire. Is he really afraid to show himself?    I think the obvious answer is `god` looks no different to me and you!!!


Moving back on track, how does it not make sense that we were created by advanced beings, but because our technology was so far behind, that these beings appeared like magicians and gods. I mean go back in time a couple of hundred years show them your technology that we have even today, and they will probably faint in awe. It is the same thing.

Does this answer the question of who is the god of the universe or purpose of life? of course not. Does it mean these ancient astronauts are the `god of all`? of course not.  But we do know this,  whoever created us has all the common characteristics, needs/ desires/ emotions, of you and i.

Yes, once again i know the ancient aliens documentary can be far too quick to prounounce everything and anything to be alien, yes i agree one of the guys has funny hair..  HOWEVER, us being created by advanced beings who come to earth every so often, makes far more sense and answers far more questions than believing in a scripture that has been re-written countless times, or in a scientific theory which is full of flaws.

Now, we get to the `where is the evidence part`.  Simple................ they do not leave evidence because they do NOT WANT us knowing this, and this is why they have given us only a fraction of our brain power to use, and remove all their technology and most of the traces of their time here.
This is the reason why whenever the `chosen one` speaks to god.. god never shows his face.

This is a raw write out of my thread i will have a bash probably add more in later.

Thanks for reading

Good post.
Nobody has all the answers but we accept these myths from a desire to know.
Emotionally some feel right, but logically something is off.

Deconstruct the myth.

Research art history.

These images symbolize complex beliefs not easily interpreted from a modern POV.

My avatar is a modified detail of the Sun symbol from a crucifixion scene painted 1350, often cited as "evidence" of AA.

"...they do not leave evidence because they do NOT WANT us knowing this."
This is circular reasoning. This is the conclusion based on the conclusion. This is why the AA speculation can be (justifiably) ridiculed.

Edited by HDesiato, 20 June 2013 - 05:25 PM.


#21    HDesiato

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

View PostSpacenut56, on 20 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Lone Ranger is correct in that there are a number of "pictures" of rather interesting or strange looking humanoids or others, including one thats received alot of notoriety of which appears to show a human or humanoid sitting in some type of craft with his hands on controls or something of the like. This particular instance has been on alot of shows I have seen. You simply cannot deny these pics are interesting or maybe even telling. If the Mayans or others at the time did not see something of the like, then why would they have made these pics, or drawings?


I think it is of the World Tree Myth:
"World trees are a prevalent motif occurring in the mythical cosmologies, creation accounts, and iconographies of the pre-Columbian cultures of Mesoamerica. In the Mesoamerican context, world trees embodied the four cardinal directions, which also serve to represent the fourfold nature of a central world tree, a symbolic axis mundi which connects the planes of the Underworld and the sky with that of the terrestrial realm.[3]"

http://en.m.wikipedi...ican_world_tree

"Izapa Stela 5 is considered a possible representation of a World Tree."

http://en.m.wikipedi...i/Izapa_Stela_5


#22    seeder

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:35 PM

wondering If I should or should not get involved in a discussion like this - again.....

It wasn’t the miners who got rich; it was the people selling picks and shovels. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
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#23    Xzenox

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

View PostTaun, on 20 June 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Why would a starfaring species come to a very distant planet (no doubt at great expense of time and resources) to guide an alien species to develop great civilizations, technological advancements and all that goes with it... And then just leave and not establish trade, assistance or even communications?...

What would be the advantage to the alien civilization?  To go to all that time and effort, and then just say "Okay, we're out of here. You're on your own. We will come back in a few tens of thousands of years - if ever - and see how your doing."...   It makes no sense...

Well if your religious, To do gods work?


#24    scowl

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostHDesiato, on 20 June 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

My avatar is a modified detail of the Sun symbol from a crucifixion scene painted 1350, often cited as "evidence" of AA.

If I remember my Chariots of the Gods movie, we are supposed to admire it's aerodynamic form and conclude that the spires represent control surfaces and the flame is an advanced rocket or jet engine. They never explained how something shaped like a bowling ball is supposed to be aerodynamic.


#25    seeder

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:50 PM

Ok I will allow myself a brief reply.

The fact that a major proponent of the AA theory, Eric V Danniken, an ex convict, was found to have fabricated stories and claimed certain items as evidence, who twisted facts and out right lied about many things is a pretty good reason for starters.  Not to mention another proponent of the theory was Zecharia Sitchin, who again, was also shown to be completely wrong on many counts.

So, if YOU propose a theory, but its full of gaping errors and wild claims that get proven to be incorrect... then YOUR theory is worthless. This then is why the AA theory will always get ridiculed. Plus it only goes back a hundred years or less with early sci fi writers, but it gained popularity in the 70's with Von Dannikens books. Funny enough a time when there were lots of space trips being made...people automatically become more interested in space..

But hey a few of us here have debunked the theory so many times now, so has this rather excellent video. (Im just off to pray the Z man doesn't see this thread)

Ancient Aliens Debunked - (full movie) HD

edit to add: This vid, while complete and covering 'all' the AA theories, is LONG! Its available in shorter sections on the main website, which is currently off-line but promises to be back up soon

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/




Edited by seeder, 20 June 2013 - 06:00 PM.

It wasn’t the miners who got rich; it was the people selling picks and shovels. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#26    Capt Amerika

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

So, after reading the comments here i have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely nothing from our past that cant be explained without question.
No matter what the issue, the topic, the picture, its all completely and totally resolved.
Then i guess we can expect this website to just shut down since there is nothing left that requires an explanation.
Bummer.
I actually enjoyed reading about things that were unexplained.  (or at least i was led to believe there was a shred of doubt)


#27    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:20 PM

View PostHDesiato, on 20 June 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I think it is of the World Tree Myth:
"World trees are a prevalent motif occurring in the mythical cosmologies, creation accounts, and iconographies of the pre-Columbian cultures of Mesoamerica. In the Mesoamerican context, world trees embodied the four cardinal directions, which also serve to represent the fourfold nature of a central world tree, a symbolic axis mundi which connects the planes of the Underworld and the sky with that of the terrestrial realm.[3]"

http://en.m.wikipedi...ican_world_tree

"Izapa Stela 5 is considered a possible representation of a World Tree."

http://en.m.wikipedi...i/Izapa_Stela_5
YEP thats exactly what it is

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#28    zoser

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:40 PM

View Postseeder, on 20 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Ok I will allow myself a brief reply.

The fact that a major proponent of the AA theory, Eric V Danniken, an ex convict, was found to have fabricated stories and claimed certain items as evidence, who twisted facts and out right lied about many things is a pretty good reason for starters.  Not to mention another proponent of the theory was Zecharia Sitchin, who again, was also shown to be completely wrong on many counts.

So, if YOU propose a theory, but its full of gaping errors and wild claims that get proven to be incorrect... then YOUR theory is worthless. This then is why the AA theory will always get ridiculed. Plus it only goes back a hundred years or less with early sci fi writers, but it gained popularity in the 70's with Von Dannikens books. Funny enough a time when there were lots of space trips being made...people automatically become more interested in space..

But hey a few of us here have debunked the theory so many times now, so has this rather excellent video. (Im just off to pray the Z man doesn't see this thread)

Ancient Aliens Debunked - (full movie) HD

edit to add: This vid, while complete and covering 'all' the AA theories, is LONG! Its available in shorter sections on the main website, which is currently off-line but promises to be back up soon


All of this above has been proven to be 99% garbage.

Look at this precision:

Posted Image

Evidence of stone moulding:

Posted Image

Impossible joins and polygonal architecture.

Never since replicated by more so called advanced civilisations such as Rome or Greece.  If man could achieve this in ancient times it would have been done in classical times.  It wasn't.

Modern man has tried to do it.  He cannot.  Protzen and his team could not replicate the precision.  Teams of Japanese experts as well as others could not replicate pyramid building.

A total and utter enigma never since even remotely achieved.

The secrets dies with the original builders.  Obviously indigenous man had nothing to do with the building.  

Tonnes and tonnes of evidence in stone.............

Posted Image

Notice the mould marks on the stone.

Edited by zoser, 20 June 2013 - 06:40 PM.

Posted Image


#29    Jacques Terreur

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:40 PM

View Postscowl, on 20 June 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

...It was a bunch of pseudoscientific crap which was quickly disproved and only made a crook rich.


that's VON crook for you, sir.... ;)

i just crossread this thread due to a lack of time, so if i state something that was said before, sorry... i think the question where we as a species come from is as old as humanity itself. And for a long time, that is, until we figured out the scientific way of getting to the bottom of deep question, it was fine for us to attribute it to "the gods" to bring life to earth, or whatever else we couldn't understand back then. homo sapiens is roughly 200.000 years old, but the ability to observe AND explain stuff happening around us in a scientific way developed about 5500 years ago.

this seems like a pretty big headstart for the "mythical" way of thinking in human minds over the scientific way.

So even in the 21st century, the collective conciousness carries a lot of mythological baggage around which is for some people hard to overcome. No matter how much objective scientific proof you offer, there will always be some folks telling you things like "god put the dinosaurs there to test our faith"...

The whole "Ancient Aliens" thing is a funny mixture though, it appears as a scientific branch and some of the AA-Theorists may also have their PhDs,  but in the end they simply replace the word "gods" with "aliens", which makes this "scientific approach" totally biased in itself. They want to proof their theory so much (or want to milk sum money out of a bad TV show), that they jump to the wildest conclusions and tend to ignore other possible explanations.

To cut a long post short: nice idea to ponder about, but in the end - just another new age religion that makes good telly.

Next!


#30    Sweetpumper

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

View Postzoser, on 20 June 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

All of this above has been proven to be 99% garbage.

Look at this precision:

Posted Image

Evidence of stone moulding:

Posted Image

Impossible joins and polygonal architecture.

Never since replicated by more so called advanced civilisations such as Rome or Greece.  If man could achieve this in ancient times it would have been done in classical times.  It wasn't.

Modern man has tried to do it.  He cannot.  Protzen and his team could not replicate the precision.  Teams of Japanese experts as well as others could not replicate pyramid building.

A total and utter enigma never since even remotely achieved.

The secrets dies with the original builders.  Obviously indigenous man had nothing to do with the building.  

Tonnes and tonnes of evidence in stone.............

Posted Image

Notice the mould marks on the stone.

Holy crap.

Here we go...

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