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Why does the MOD have more horses than tanks?

mod horses tanks british army

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:46 PM

Britain's armed forces are undergoing huge changes.

Redundancies have been confirmed ahead of the release next week of a UK government spending review which is expected to announce a 1% increase in military equipment budgets, but also 5% reduction in spending overall.

Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander has praised the MoD's plans to shave millions of pounds off its procurement budget.

The MoD's official figures show the British Army does indeed have more horsepower of the four leg variety, than the heavy metal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...slands-22951548

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#2    questionmark

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:48 PM

Horses know the way from the pub to the barracks, tanks don't.

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#3    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:13 PM

You can't eat a tank.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
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#4    Yes_Man

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:26 PM

Unless its a cake


#5    keithisco

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:54 PM

Horses are much cheaper than the 5.6M pound price tag for a Challenger 2 tank.

The reality is that the MOD was saddled with Challenger because Thatcher decided she wanted a British Tank - despite the fact that it was inferior in every trial  to the Leopard Tank. MOD was offered the Leopard  Tank (cheaper and more reliable) and also the rights to produce it in - country (I.E. 100%Offset) and to sell the British version across the world to actually make a very impressive profit, but Thatcher wouldnt have it.

Thatcher,  blinded by jingoism, selected the worst option, so now you have a Main Battle Tank that on average, will break down every 80 Kms. Additionally it has such a high thermal signature that it can be detected at extreme distance in an Operational Scenario that you have plenty of time to plant anti - tank mines in its path.

It was not the tank that the MOD wanted., but Politicians know best???

Today, the MOD has won out by ordering the SV in various versions, based on the ASCOD 2, not a main Battle Tank, but ideally suited to all projected needs for the next 30 yrs. Reliability is an exponential improvement.

In what is the best news that I have heard in a long time is that the MOD are no longer going to be able to send out Troops that are underequipped for the Mission they are sent on. They no longer have Crown Immunity if they send troops out underequipped for their various missions, they can be sued for Negligence!  So no more lack of personal armour, no more Haig-esque decisions....


#6    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 20 June 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Unless its a cake
the  cake is a lie.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#7    spud the mackem

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:02 AM

The horses are needed to pull the tanks when they break down.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#8    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 20 June 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

the  cake is a lie.
Sorry, this is way off topic, but you opened the door with your comment :)



#9    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:12 AM

View Postkeithisco, on 20 June 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

MOD was offered the Leopard  Tank
Which version at that time, a Leopard one variant or the two, with it's flawed frontal turret armour due to poor design of sight appertures. which by co-incidence ties in with the video above, so maybe not so offtop.......

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 21 June 2013 - 10:23 AM.


#10    Timonthy

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:16 AM

They must be preparing for the fossil fuel shortages...

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#11    spud the mackem

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

I honestly cant see a Tank pulling the Queens carriage up the Mall.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#12    .AKUMA.

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:53 PM

Unless she's dual weilding 2 AK's!! Now that would be a something..

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#13    Oppono Astos

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 21 June 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I honestly cant see a Tank pulling the Queens carriage up the Mall.
I am told the automobile is a useful means of being transported on the highway; seem to recall the Royal Firm have a few at their disposal.

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#14    skookum

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:00 PM

Current tanks and the amount of them were deemed what was right for a cold war in Europe.  Tanks are of limited use and a pain in the neck in deserts and totally useless in the mountains of Afghanistan.  They served little to no purpose in the Falklands war as well.

Defense reviews are designed to access likely scenario's for the next 6-10 years based on intelligence and political circumstances.  There is no doubt we could ideally do with more of everything (maybe not more horses) but we don't have the defense budget of the USA.  Saying that we are are in the top 3 or 4 countries in defense spending.

For many years the UK armed forces have relied on quality rather than quantity, few would argue there are many armies if any trained better than the UK.

We should also remember there is not much that can take on a challenger 2.  The M1 Abrams and the German leopard but many countries still field things that were around in the 1950's/1960's.  A majority of Iraqi tanks were T54, however they had a handful of T72's.  The M1 and Challenger 2 made mincemeat of them.  

A far cry difference to WW2 when we relied on the quantity of M4 Shermans to overpower the superior quality of the Panzer/Tigers.

Edited by skookum, 21 June 2013 - 09:07 PM.

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#15    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:25 PM

View Postskookum, on 21 June 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

A majority of Iraqi tanks were T54, however they had a handful of T72's.  The M1 and Challenger 2 made mincemeat of them.
But don't forget they were old export models with only steel armour, lower powered amunition and demoralised crew. I don't pretend that T-80 and T-90 are not now obsolete, but they, with Russian crews, would not have been "mincemeat". And I already know the arguments about performance of T-80 in Chechnya, but as you will know, urban warfare against enemy, some of whom would have served on those tanks in Soviet Army, is somewhat different to mobile tank warfare. Also the overwhelming airpower employed in both Gulf wars would make it difficult for even the best tanks in the world to operate in, as Germans found out in Normandy.
This is not military type forum, so to show what I mean to any who are not familiar with this argument, a picture. There are many technical differences, some obvious, some hidden.
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Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 21 June 2013 - 11:29 PM.





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