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Files shed light on MoD UFO desk closure


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#16    ChrLzs

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:07 AM

Rolci, your claim of alien UFOs disabling nuclear missiles has been discussed to death elsewhere, and there is NO, NADA, ZERO evidence of anything ALIEN.
If you claim otherwise, post that specific evidence here rather than handwave.

Quote

it saddens me to see people being so gullible as to believe that these recording technologies are set up in a way that they will tell us everything we want to know about UFOs.
Ah, the obligatory strawman.  Thanks for showing your true colours!

Let's be quite specific:

1. NOBODY said the technologies were infallible.

2. NOBODY has ever claimed we can identify everything about unidentified objects in the sky - such a claim is simply ludicrous.

3. And here's the rub, you tell us - WHY are all the 'good' UFO reports from the 50's thru 80's?   Show us some from the last two decades - cases that include good footage/data from FLIRs or radar, etc..

That was my point, back in the good ole days, pilots could easily claim it was a UFO when they had performed wild maneuvers or used weapons in peacetime, and not only would you get away with it as the tech wasn't there to verify it, but your superiors would happily accept it as it helped them keep their jobs and justify extra expenditure.


Stop making up fake arguments and putting your words into other people's mouths.

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#17    Scudbuster

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:18 AM

View Postpaperdyer, on 21 June 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Where is the documentation of UFOs disabling nuclear missles?

In particular, Google Capt Robert Salas's testimony, IIRC he was the OIC at the launch site:

http://online.wsj.co...507-908600.html


#18    Rolci

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:29 AM

View PostChrlzs, on 22 June 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Rolci, your claim of alien UFOs disabling nuclear missiles has been discussed to death elsewhere, and there is NO, NADA, ZERO evidence of anything ALIEN.
If you claim otherwise, post that specific evidence here rather than handwave.

I made NO, NADA, ZERO references to the UFOs being of alien origin. Although one might use common sense after doing the necessary amount of research, or not do the research and believe what one wants. However I am not trying to use this particular topic or even forum to convince anyone of the existence of aliens, it is not my job, and no matter how much evidence is shown to anyone, the ONLY thing that can make ANYONE believe anything is the person itself. If you want to be a genuine hard-core flat-earther, you're welcome. Plenty of those nutjobs around. Even if there was a mass landing with aliens walking out and you could touch them, you could still say it's all a secret US genetic experiment. The bottom and at the same time the top line is simply this: everyone does and will always believe what they want. Some will "put up" with little evidence. Those that need more will love calling them gullible. Yes the representatives of each category can and will call all the others names. Sweat. Let's grow up and move on, respecting others' beliefs.

To answer your third questions: there's plenty of those nowadays. May I ask you if you actually watched the CHD? Plenty of examples there, some a couple years old, some even days, although they are only scratching the surface. I could give more obvious reasons for the apparent change from the 50s-80s to nowadays but I'm afraid they cannot be accepted by the likes of you (no offence intended) without a leap of faith. The thing is, if you're genuinely interested you'll find your answer. If you don't find it, you never really wanted to know. A hint would be: policies change. Let that suffice for this discussion. Fake arguments? Only genuine ones, from someone with a different background to you. Respect?

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#19    ChrLzs

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 22 June 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

In particular, Google Capt Robert Salas's testimony, IIRC he was the OIC at the launch site:

http://online.wsj.co...507-908600.html

Ah, Robert Salas and Robert Hastings..  If it's just links you wish to debate with, you could start here:
http://www.scribd.co...itary-Incidents

but I have MUCH, MUCH more if you want..  It's a load of {insert favorite saying)..

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#20    ChrLzs

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

View PostRolci, on 22 June 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

I made NO, NADA, ZERO references to the UFOs being of alien origin.
Oh.  OK. I humbly apologise for making such an unwarranted assumption.  What you did say was:

Quote

You can't keep shouting swamp gas and weather balloons all the time, coupled with mass hallucinations and mental problems, and ignore all the abductions, mutilations, radiation, multiple radar tracks, foreign materials with weird properties, and now this Atacama humanoid, not to mention crop circles and the like. If it was one or two of these then the alternative explanations (in this case the natural ones) could be considered a possibility, but all this stuff all together?
I get the fact that you believe in all that and it is all related in your view..   so   ..  what is your explanation?

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#21    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

Quote

"No UFO sighting reported to [the MoD] has ever revealed anything to suggest an extra-terrestrial presence or military threat to the UK."

It is automatically a threat, unbelievable how we think someone who will travel the stars and in the end would share some portion of technology is a threat and would be most likely attacked...

Edited by Tesla II, 22 June 2013 - 01:03 PM.

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   And just Russia Today...

#22    nothinglizx2

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

Well thats all just crap, im not even Brit and I can tell you that that did not happen.  Too many of the wrong people knew about the subject.  Furthermore if you have a huge secret to keep you generally want to cut off all ties to it.  In this case black bagging evidence of advanced weaponary and advanced technology.  Why would I say this?  This is for the paranoid mind of a super power country.

It is the responsability of all leaders to find all possible threats to the safety and security of the people and their programs and their agenda's.  Thats why each nation has spies.  If North America or China or Korea or any country that is a threat to Britain manages to make contact with these unidentified beings, they want to know about it, it's a need to know.  If a UFO is downed on another nations soil, they need to know about it.  It's the nature of competition.  The country with the most advanced technology is the nation that can't be defeated or denied.
If you found that technology you don't want everybody to know about it, so you cut the program off and let go of all non-essential personnel.  You start up a program somewhere out of sight, out of mind, with people with the right insight and the right mind who are the right element for the job.

If the lay person knows you have this technology, have talked to these visitors, they will be harder to control, it will change the face of the nation and of the world.  You can't conduct operations in secret nor use the technology for your own purposes in secret.

Enjoy!


#23    Spiritwalker

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:29 PM

Very interesting replies to say the least. And some replies with such vehement emotion! I did find a very interesting televised event on YouTube from a show from Larry King debating this very topic and most interestingly a video of an UFO disabling a test rocket launched from Malmstrom U.S. Air Force base. If any wishes to see the "evidence" look up "Best Larry King UFO Debate Ever Pt. 1 7/18/08". It is without a doubt the very best debate I, myself, have ever seen. It is a five part video with the most notable so called UFO geeks and scientists. No matter what side of the fence you set on I think anyone will finish watching these with a different frame of mind. I hope those of us who so quick to judge will be as quick to watch the evidence.


#24    Draco20

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:34 AM

So, the amount of reports concerning UFO sightings is rising and this take too much ressources to investigate which could be use elsewhere in other activity of the Defense. They haven't been able to conclude anything so they close the door.

Do not tell me that this shed lights on the UFO phenomenon, this is merely a matter of money savings by a British conservative governement.


#25    shrooma

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:55 AM

there's a thread about ufo's disabling nuclear missiles here Paperdyer.
not sure how helpful it'll be though.....
.
http://www.unexplain... missiles &st=0

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#26    Rolci

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:55 AM

View PostChrlzs, on 22 June 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Oh.  OK. I humbly apologise for making such an unwarranted assumption.  What you did say was:

I get the fact that you believe in all that and it is all related in your view..   so   ..  what is your explanation?

No disrespect but from only a few words you seem to make a lot of assumptions and seem to jump to conclusions. I do not "believe in all that". Well yes I believe there are crop circles, although I do not believe that that is a matter of belief. Same goes for the rest. Do I believe they are related? The way I would put it, I consider that possibility. What is my explanation? Who am I to have one? And why would you or anyone want to know MY explanation or take my word for it? All I have is opinions, although based on a lot of research yet mostly biased, same as everyone else. For all I know, they can be part of a big secret government project. All those who claim to channel messages, all those that make crop circles, all those who use tools working on suppressed tech, they can be working for a government or even private agency whose agenda is to make people believe in ufos, or even just divide the population to fragment it even further as if religion wasn't enough so we are more easily controllable. Or they are related and it's aliens. How would I know? I know one thing for sure though: Not all the evidence in the world is enough to prove one way or another. One side can always cry conspiracy, the other can cry cover-up. The more seeming evidence, the more sophisticated theories and methods needed to explain either way but the spectrum is endless as human imagination is endless. Flat-earthers are serious folks with serious and elaborate explanations for the seeming roundness of the Earth. If you want to explain something away you will, and will even convince others, or at least make them think and wonder. Who cares who believes what? No one knows and everyone believes what they want. No explanations, sorry. Did I say anything new here? I don't think so.

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#27    skookum

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

The more I hear about the little MOD UFO room and Nick Pope, the less I believe.   It sounded feasible at first then more information came out and it seemed less and less likely.

Forget about ET for the moment.  Are they trying to tell us that ever intrusion into UK airspace by an Object that cannot be quickly identified was passed on to a man working in a small office in the MOD?

This at a time when the use of drones etc was hugely increasing.  Doesn't make sense to me.

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#28    TSS

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:31 PM

View Postskookum, on 30 June 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

The more I hear about the little MOD UFO room and Nick Pope, the less I believe.   It sounded feasible at first then more information came out and it seemed less and less likely.

Forget about ET for the moment.  Are they trying to tell us that ever intrusion into UK airspace by an Object that cannot be quickly identified was passed on to a man working in a small office in the MOD?

This at a time when the use of drones etc was hugely increasing.  Doesn't make sense to me.

It made a lot of sense to the MOD though, as you say though "forget about ET" which is exactly what they did, since they weren't looking into space, they were looking East.

Bare in mind that this was formed some 50 yrs ago....public reports of ufo's (and a dedicated desk to investigate them) is a great way to get an idea of what you might be missing in terms of what is entering our air space uninvited, but you also have the added bonus of seeing which of your own toys is being spotted by the public, and how they are being reported and perceived.

90 percent of all sighting reported were found to have natural or earthly explanations...the one's that were not gave them some insight into what they might be missing...


#29    DONTEATUS

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

THe only light shed ,will be the A$$ whoppin E.T ids going to give us in that Shed for getting it all wrong ! They Dont want to Meet us !

This is a Work in Progress!

#30    psyche101

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:34 AM

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

As it has been confirmed in the Disclosure project and the 2013 Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, these craft, whatever their origin, are capable of disabling dozens of nuclear missiles simultaneously.

No, UFO's cannot do that, you are quoting hearsay as though fact. That is what those so called projects have stated yes, but that does not make these very loose and wild (and outright incorrect) claims "confirmed" in any way shape or form. It's a bunch of enthusiasts telling each other what they want to hear and highlighting any credentialed participant in a grab for credibility.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

They have been documented to do so mid-air as well.

They have not been documented doing any such thing, and I fail to see what the Mid Air position has to add to this claim? If the alleged aliens had landed at least we might have CCTV footage. Much less impressive to be doing this by remote control. I think Julian Assange would be yawing at the so called impressive hacking abilities. Not like these old computer systems were highly complex.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

The accounts are numerous and confirmed by a high number of military personnel, retired and active, high ranking and low-ranking.

And denied by the same, and the case of the alleged Echo Flight Shutdown, Eric Carlson, who sat at the very desk during the alleged incident came here to UM along with Robert Hastings and asked in general why non of these UFO people have spoken to him, who would be crucial to the claim. Not to mention some questions from UM member Leonardo seem to have instigated a rather quick exit on the behalf of Mr Hastings who it appears was unable to assist him with his in depth queries. LINK

In addition to all this, Tim Herbert,  a former SAC missile crew commander and staff officer, also came here to UM and showed us what the wiring configuration of the misiles at these silos actually was, and it rendered Hastings argument invalid immediately. The faults that Hastings say brought the system down travelled upon imaginary cables. The claim falls apart technically, no matter how much his sock puppet Salas nods his head up and down.

James Carlson (Erics son) also has a free E Book outlining the actual situation much more precisely. LINK

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

And the MoD says they are not a threat.

Is there any reason to think otherwise? This phenomena has been with us for a long time, longer than most imagine I would say, and apart from some ball lightning deaths due to proximity, I know of no threat posed by UFO's in the last 60 years.

Edgar Mitchell who believes people who believe in ET says these alleged aliens are not a threat as well. Why woud any of this be a concern to the MoD?

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

And I'm sure these can be explained away as natural phenomena. You know what? Call them natural, I don't care, these are labels we like to stick on stuff.

They do have a purpose, as there seems to be two types of believer from what I see. One borrows credibility from the other. One group is sensible, and really trying to understand what is happening here, and one is credulous and just want personal validation of their own fantasies and quick cash for some. They are also distinctly different in training, making the credible people such as Professor Hawking, or Michio Kaku worth listening to and putting the redneck who was abducted for sex into perspective. There is no getting around the very fact that the idea of aliens draws kooks like moths to a flame.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Point is, there is something going on and it needs further investigations, because the bottom line is, and let's be honest and humble here for a change, we don't understand what's going on, what or who they are, why they are here, why they do the things they do, how they do it, etc.

Not sure where the "they" is coming from, particularly when you resign the description to natural phenomena above. ??

It is true we do not understand a large part of the UFO phenomena, and claims like Betty and Barney Hill will never be completely resolved as far as science is concerned, as too little information exists. But we are uncovering bits and pieces, the MoD not too long ago officially announced that the Plasma studies begun by Phillip Klass in the 50's were a valid explanation for at least part of the phenomena, and it is interesting to note that this important research has been held back for decades specifically by the UFOlogist contingent. Again  the two types of believers come into the field of pay, and in this case, one drew so much credibility fro the other, that real results were held back and everyone was held at a disadvantage for "UFO"so called research. All it accomplished was highlighting some personal alien fantasies from people who really ought to be a bit more mature.

Bottom line I think is people like the team investigating the Hessdalen Phenomena, or Professor Jack Pettigrew are indeed taking on what fringe has given a bad name with a professional attitude. And the headway is going to only be slowed by the slow thinking UFOlogists who are still trying to assign nothing more than modern Gods to explain that which they do not understand.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

You can't keep shouting swamp gas and weather balloons all the time, coupled with mass hallucinations and mental problems, and ignore all the abductions, mutilations, radiation, multiple radar tracks, foreign materials with weird properties,

Can you prove those conclusions wrong? That is the place to start, not complaining that you do not like them. All that does is allow ebil gummit pack mentality with no actual information.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

and now this Atacama humanoid,

I am taking this as a joke. Surely you jest. Surely. This ten year old decidedly human artefact is in no way new, or alien, at all. All that is new about it is the hype spun up to drive up more Greer funding. This is merely yet anther example of the very worst that UFOlogy has to offer.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

not to mention crop circles and the like.

In all the crop circle threads that have surfaced here, I am yet to see how this nonsense ties into ET. They are easy to make, and man has made them and provided overnight examples. Crop circles are not ET related, and that statement cannot be challenged. I dare anyone to do so. The only current thread on them is a shambles and has provided more proof of mans involvement than anything else.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

If it was one or two of these then the alternative explanations (in this case the natural ones) could be considered a possibility, but all this stuff all together? You can't just ignore the testimonies of all these jet fighters and nuclear silo military officers.

Why not? The ones who say it is not in ay way ET are avoided like the plague, why not ignore the ignoramus statements that are technically impossible and contradict other claims of direct witnesses/participants?

The credulity of a claim seems to be in proportion with the belief factor for some. The crazier a story, the more some want it to be true. Whilst that might be human nature, nature supplied us with common sense and rationality as well. I feel obliged to use them myself.

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Ben Rich wasn't exaggerating.

No he was not, we most certainly did have the means to take ET home as far back as the late 50's and early 60's. Within reason of course. Even 10x light speed wont help you see the far side of the Universe. The Orion Project incorporating Nuclear propulsion is to date still the best design for interstellar travel. This is no secret however, one just needs to make oneself more aware of our space history.  It might get us to Alpha Centauri in 40-60 years, however the project is recognised to have been terminated b the nuclear test ban treaty. You know, the one that France, Korea and Vietnam violated.

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