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Files shed light on MoD UFO desk closure


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#31    psyche101

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

View PostRolci, on 21 June 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I'm glad you brought that up. However it saddens me to see people being so gullible as to believe that these recording technologies are set up in a way that they will tell us everything we want to know about UFOs. If you HAD done any research you would've found out that all this "too much science and good recording technology" is set up in a very specific way. To give you a clue I recommend you watch a video in which Senator Bartlett and Congressman Cook ask FAA's John Callahan and USAF's Maj. George Filer: Hope this helps a little.

How about going backwards a step then, with all the RADAR traces of the alleged UFO's, why has not one ever been traced as entering or leaving the atmosphere, let alone the solar system? Every UFO RADAR track in existence shows a decidedly terrestrial trajectory. Should a space ship not go into space at some point? The closest thing we have to this description is the WOW! signal, indicating that if something came from space, it would not be such a guessing game.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#32    psyche101

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 21 June 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

I thought it interesting that...


So when an area needs more people to help investigate phenomena/reports, the better thing to do is close it down?

I would just guess at "a more appropriate department" might be the idea here.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#33    Tim Hebert

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:51 PM

OK, if one is hell bent on toeing the Hastings/Salas line, at least get some modicum of facts straight in support of this fantasy.

From Scudbuster:

Quote

In particular, Google Capt Robert Salas's testimony, IIRC he was the OIC at the launch site
:

No, Salas was not the OIC (Officer in Charge), that would have been Frederick Meiwald, and Salas was a 1st Lt at the time of the alleged encounter and was considered "second in command" as Meiwald's deputy.

From Spiritwalker:  

Quote

Very interesting replies to say the least. And some replies with such vehement emotion! I did find a very interesting televised event on YouTube from a show from Larry King debating this very topic and most interestingly a video of an UFO disabling a test rocket launched from Malmstrom U.S. Air Force base. If any wishes to see the "evidence" look up "Best Larry King UFO Debate Ever Pt. 1 7/18/08". It is without a doubt the very best debate I, myself, have ever seen. It is a five part video with the most notable so called UFO geeks and scientists. No matter what side of the fence you set on I think anyone will finish watching these with a different frame of mind. I hope those of us who so quick to judge will be as quick to watch the evidence.

A UFO disabling at test launch from Malmstrom?  Seriously?  No such thing ever occurred, as there has never been a test launch from any operational ICBM from an actual alert facility in the history of the US ICBM force.  It was proposed numerous times, but due to political pressure (local, state, and federal) never was carried out.

True, there were numerous test launches out of Vandenberg AFB, where operational ICBMs were pulled from an actual alert missile silo for Follow-on Test and Evaluation programs.  Hastings tried to play one of these test shots as proof that a UFO had interfered/intercepted a Minuteman in-flight over the Pacific, but I "shot" his theory/fantasy down in a series of comments on The UFO Chronicles.  I'll be happy to supply that exchange if people have interests.

Regards Tim H.


#34    S2F

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostTim Hebert, on 01 July 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I'll be happy to supply that exchange if people have interests.

I admit, you have my attention. I'd like to see the exchange if you don't mind sharing it. :tu:

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#35    Tim Hebert

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:19 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 01 July 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

I admit, you have my attention. I'd like to see the exchange if you don't mind sharing it. :tu:

I'll post it in a new thread as not to be off-topic in this current thread.  Perhaps by tomorrow?

Best Regards,

Tim H.


#36    Scudbuster

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:31 AM

View PostTim Hebert, on 01 July 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

OK, if one is hell bent on toeing the Hastings/Salas line, at least get some modicum of facts straight in support of this fantasy.

From Scudbuster:

No, Salas was not the OIC (Officer in Charge), that would have been Frederick Meiwald, and Salas was a 1st Lt at the time of the alleged encounter and was considered "second in command" as Meiwald's deputy.

Regards Tim H.

Ah - who cares if he was the NCOIC, OIC, 1st Lt,  a 2nd loeuy or a visiting Lt. General?  He was there, his testimony is on record, I've seen it numerous times.

And you? - you weren't there.


#37    Tim Hebert

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:04 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 02 July 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

Ah - who cares if he was the NCOIC, OIC, 1st Lt,  a 2nd loeuy or a visiting Lt. General?  He was there, his testimony is on record, I've seen it numerous times.

And you? - you weren't there.

You seemed to care by your attempt to elevate Salas to a position that he didn't have.  Which testimony are you referring to?  He has had different versions of the night in question.  His own crew commander couldn't, or wouldn't, verify what Salas' claims to have happen.

Oh, I'm betting that you were not there either. :yes:  

And technically, neither was Salas.  He was 90 feet underground...and saw nothing.

There were others on that site, at least 8 individuals.  They've never come forward to verify Mr. Salas' claims.  Don't you find that interesting if not giving you some degree of suspicion?  Or, are you the type that will buy, hook, line, and sinker, any claims that supports your fantasy with out ascertaining some sliver of fact?

Edited by Tim Hebert, 02 July 2013 - 02:15 AM.


#38    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:03 AM

ITs the Book sales thats the real Deal !

This is a Work in Progress!

#39    psyche101

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 02 July 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

Ah - who cares if he was the NCOIC, OIC, 1st Lt,  a 2nd loeuy or a visiting Lt. General?  He was there, his testimony is on record, I've seen it numerous times.

And you? - you weren't there.

The others like Eric Carlson who were there and siad that Salas is full of crap. I woud suggest you shave a look why Walt Figel was ousted from Hasting 2010 conference when even though Walt was less then ten miles from the location, and offered to give his testimony.

I woud say they care, because they were indeed there, and they know Salas is full of crap, and is making up stuff. Tim might not have been at that actual site at the time like Eric and Walt, but you do realise that Tim is indeed a former SAC missile crew commander??

What you have done is cherry pick one lone testimony over others that contradict it. Not to mention that technical details such the the wires that the alleged fault "hopped" along did not exist, so it woud seem that Salas actually knows less about the overall situation than Tim does.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#40    psyche101

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 01 July 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

I admit, you have my attention. I'd like to see the exchange if you don't mind sharing it. :tu:

I will second this, thanks for the kind offer Tim. Always a treat for the critical thinkers to have you pop in mate. I you ever make it to Australia, there is a cold beer in my fridge for you. :tu:

Really decent of you to share you expertise with us IMHO. I know it would not have been this easy to come by in the first instance.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#41    Scudbuster

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostTim Hebert, on 02 July 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

You seemed to care by your attempt to elevate Salas to a position that he didn't have.  Which testimony are you referring to?  He has had different versions of the night in question.  His own crew commander couldn't, or wouldn't, verify what Salas' claims to have happen.

Oh, I'm betting that you were not there either. :yes:  

And technically, neither was Salas.  He was 90 feet underground...and saw nothing.

There were others on that site, at least 8 individuals.  They've never come forward to verify Mr. Salas' claims.  Don't you find that interesting if not giving you some degree of suspicion?  Or, are you the type that will buy, hook, line, and sinker, any claims that supports your fantasy with out ascertaining some sliver of fact?

Haha....funny chit mon - my "fantasy".  Gawd.

And no, I do not buy all the crap that's out there. How many times do I have to state in here that 95% of the stuff that is floated around about this topic is garbage?

Send me a link so i can see these other people you are talking about......if you really have it.


#42    Scudbuster

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 02 July 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

The others like Eric Carlson who were there and siad that Salas is full of crap. I woud suggest you shave a look why Walt Figel was ousted from Hasting 2010 conference when even though Walt was less then ten miles from the location, and offered to give his testimony.

I woud say they care, because they were indeed there, and they know Salas is full of crap, and is making up stuff. Tim might not have been at that actual site at the time like Eric and Walt, but you do realise that Tim is indeed a former SAC missile crew commander??

What you have done is cherry pick one lone testimony over others that contradict it. Not to mention that technical details such the the wires that the alleged fault "hopped" along did not exist, so it woud seem that Salas actually knows less about the overall situation than Tim does.

C'mon Psyche, you know me better than that.

If you have something different, send it along or post it.


#43    Tim Hebert

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostScudbuster, on 02 July 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

Haha....funny chit mon - my "fantasy".  Gawd.

And no, I do not buy all the crap that's out there. How many times do I have to state in here that 95% of the stuff that is floated around about this topic is garbage?

Send me a link so i can see these other people you are talking about......if you really have it.

Alright, let's start off fresh here and my apologies for sounding abrasive.  First off there is no link concerning  "these other people" because "they" have never come forward to provide any form of substance to Salas' claim.  Salas had been asked about this problem, but never had a coherent answer why these individuals never came forward.

Why do I know that there were other people?  At each topside alert facility (Launch Control Facility, now days, Missile Alert Facility) there would be 8 individuals on site ( 2 Flight Security Controllers, 4 Armed Response personnel, Facility Manager, and site cook).  Salas' story hinges on one of the FSCs calling in a report that a UFO is hovering in front of the LCF's entry gate and that one of the security personnel was injured.

To this day, these individuals have never come forward to corroborate the story, though they certainly where there.  It's the identity of "they" that is one of the burning questions.  And...there is no supporting evidence that anyone was injured and taken off the site to seek medical attention.

I don't know how much of this case that you have researched, but there are numerous inconsistencies in Mr. Salas' story.  These inconsistencies have evolved over time.  I have highlighted these problems on my blog site (www.timhebert.blogspot.com) under a series of posts, "The Oscar Flight Mystery."  I'm not suggesting that I presented a definitive answer to the incident, but I attempted to underscore those problems associated with Salas' story.  I do present links in most, if not all, of my posts to support my stance.

Regards,

Tim H.

Edited by Tim Hebert, 02 July 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#44    Scudbuster

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostTim Hebert, on 02 July 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Alright, let's start off fresh here and my apologies for sounding abrasive.  First off there is no link concerning  "these other people" because "they" have never come forward to provide any form of substance to Salas' claim.  Salas had been asked about this problem, but never had a coherent answer why these individuals never came forward.

Why do I know that there were other people?  At each topside alert facility (Launch Control Facility, now days, Missile Alert Facility) there would be 8 individuals on site ( 2 Flight Security Controllers, 4 Armed Response personnel, Facility Manager, and site cook).  Salas' story hinges on one of the FSCs calling in a report that a UFO is hovering in front of the LCF's entry gate and that one of the security personnel was injured.

To this day, these individuals have never come forward to corroborate the story, though they certainly where there.  It's the identity of "they" that is one of the burning questions.  And...there is no supporting evidence that anyone was injured and taken off the site to seek medical attention.

I don't know how much of this case that you have researched, but there are numerous inconsistencies in Mr. Salas' story.  These inconsistencies have evolved over time.  I have highlighted these problems on my blog site (www.timhebert.blogspot.com) under a series of posts, "The Oscar Flight Mystery."  I'm not suggesting that I presented a definitive answer to the incident, but I attempted to underscore those problems associated with Salas' story.  I do present links in most, if not all, of my posts to support my stance.

Regards,

Tim H.

No problemo.

I always like to see other testimonies, etc no matter what the incident is.

I'll check out your blog here sometime soon.


#45    skookum

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:37 AM

Posted Image

There again if the above was the kind of rubbish they were looking into, you can see why the MOD pulled the plug.

Posted Image




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