Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 2 votes

Where are YOU on this map ?


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#16    ChrLzs

ChrLzs

    Just a contributor..

  • Member
  • 2,858 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast (Qld, Australia)

  • I only floccinaucinihilipilificate
    when it IS worthless...

Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostRedHouseHendrix, on 26 June 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I thought it was common knowledge that under hypnosis you can remember things that in a normal state you wouldn't be able to remember.
Yeah - trouble is, 'common' knowledge' is often extremely wrong.  Regression hypnosis is widely discredited, and major bodies such as the American Psychological Association recommend against relying on such 'testimony' in any way unless there is corroborating evidence.  You need to update your knowledge..

Quote

Also, lets attack the person name...that will discredit them.
I have a funny name too, but it doesn't worry me at all if you say so - it's the actual argument that you can put together that counts.  And Marjorie Fish's research is highly flawed.  Did you know that she herself is reported to have backed away from her 'correlation' shortly before she passed away?  Do you know why?

Quote

I don't think that Marjorie Fish is any stranger than John Smith or Alice Clark, its just a name.
Then why continue to focus attention it - let's talk about her 'research' and how valid it is.  So far you haven't said a single thing about that.  First up, do you have any sources or references for her research methodology?  I'll post some links if you don't - but that won't look good so here's your chance to get in first...

Quote

If you believe this story or just think its worth further investigation don't let these skeptics bully you
I would have though it would be best to engage in debate than simply dismiss the views of people you don't like.  Anyway, as we delve into Marjorie's research, we will soon see who knows their topic...

{irrelevant link removed}
Why do you keep bringing up this stuff which is not part of the case under discussion?  Trying to change the topic, perchance?

If you wish to look at Drasin's ad hominem laden garbage, which is also heavily flawed then start another thread.  I'll happily take that subject on also, but NOT HERE.  Got a problem with individual posts? - then report them instead of handwaving.

So, let's start with Marjorie's research, shall we?  Please provide your favorite links and let's look at what she did, very carefully, step by step, in a logical and fair fashion.  Here's a starting point to get a better picture of Ms Fish - do you agree with/accept this 'bibliography' of Marjorie?
http://www.kochkybor...ll/fishbibl.htm

And I trust you know why the name 'Atterberg' is important..?  Let the debate commence - others are welcome to join in, but I would suggest you know the topic well - if you just start googling now, you will be way behind...

___
All my posts about Apollo are dedicated to the memory of MID - who knew, lived and was an integral part of, Apollo.

#17    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 8,631 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

View PostRedHouseHendrix, on 26 June 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I thought it was common knowledge that under hypnosis you can remember things that in a normal state you wouldn't be able to remember.
That turns out not to be the case.  In fact, it's just the opposite -  hypnosis can help you "remember" things that never happened.

Quote

HYPNOSIS, even self-hypnosis, can sometimes result in the creation of false memories -- the belief that something happened even though it never did. A psychologist at Ohio State University in Lima and fellow researchers found that even when people were warned about the possibility of acquiring pseudo-memories under hypnosis, more than a quarter of them did anyway.
Dr. Joseph Green, a professor of psychology at Ohio State and co-author of the study, said, ''There's a cultural expectation that hypnosis will lead to more accurate and earlier memories, but that's not true.''

Source and some study results: NYTimes

Of course, if you'd rather believe what you've witnessed on TV dramas, well...

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#18    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,969 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:49 AM

Sigh. Betty and Barney - I don't even know where to begin on how utterly ridiculous that whole story is.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#19    ChrLzs

ChrLzs

    Just a contributor..

  • Member
  • 2,858 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast (Qld, Australia)

  • I only floccinaucinihilipilificate
    when it IS worthless...

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:16 AM

Hmm.  Where did RedHouseHendrix go, I wonder?  Still googling, perhaps..

___
All my posts about Apollo are dedicated to the memory of MID - who knew, lived and was an integral part of, Apollo.

#20    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,969 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 30 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostChrlzs, on 29 June 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

Hmm.  Where did RedHouseHendrix go, I wonder?  Still googling, perhaps..

Chrlzs, good posts!

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#21    DingoLingo

DingoLingo

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  • Joined:05 Jul 2011

Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:43 PM

I loved Sagan's view on the Hill's and the star map betty drew..




#22    rose quatz

rose quatz

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 33 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cornwall, UK

  • "If we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world."

Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:04 AM

the real problem with any ufo experience story is that it will never stand up as 100% evidence because theres always a thousand different reasons why it could be fake..the only way that ufos could be proven to be real is if every single person on the planet witnessed them 1st hand.. and by that I mean seeing is believing appart from the few that will automatically deny what they have seen and choose to suppress any memory of the incident..


#23    MrBene

MrBene

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 372 posts
  • Joined:31 Jul 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rio Gallegos, Argentina

  • A regular guy

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:33 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 24 June 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

My guess is Travis Walton. That's my favorite abduction tale since it's credible, and the witnesses are trustworthy according to the polygraph tests.

First time I read about Walton I really wanted to believe him, until I made a little research and I found some stuff against his story. Still a cool story.


#24    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,035 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 03 August 2013 - 01:39 AM

That was one of my favorite, but some how I think something in the car made them hallucinate, gas fumes or something:)


#25    GoldenRabbit

GoldenRabbit

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 190 posts
  • Joined:22 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 03 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

View Postslaughtr, on 24 June 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

All you skeptic folks I hope someday an alien ship comes and zaps your ass up and let's see if defending an article matters you say some of the most dumbest bull I've ever heard.Truth could hit you in the face and you still wouldn't believe it.Every case I have studied the similarities are there and really why would somebody lie about being snatched up damn......Since you all have the answer stay off the site making dumb comments....fake know it alls go work for nasa then they need you.

Cool story Bro ;)

Go The Bunnies :tu:

#26    Steve3951

Steve3951

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2013

Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:46 AM

Re: Comments by Chrizs AKA Psychic Spy Posts June 21 and June 24,2013

Steve Pearse here....

My apologies to one and all for the late entry to your forum. Throughout life we wear many different hats and my plate has been very full lately--so your comments about my failure to respond to your Psychic Spy persona comments is just rubbish. If that was your best shot-you have missed the dart board. So Yes, I'm here in your backyard to defend the article. For more information you can refer to my web site:
www.hillwilsonstarmap.net/

Re: And may I suggest that the 'story' might be a little more accurately reported if, instead of restating claims as if they actually happened, you make it clear they are claims.  For example, sentences like this (of which there are many):
"Betty and Barney Hill started having nightmares"

FYI: I have been researching this Extraterrestrial Hypothesis case for over 12 years, and my comments in the article are a reflection of the advanced stage of my personal research into this matter via direct dialog with Betty Hill's niece Kathleen Marden and others for over 6 years. For your information Betty Hill passed a polygraph test adminstered by a well known attorney F. Lee Bailey. Nevertheless I do take note of your nitpicking. For your information, which is in John Fuller's book-there was physical evidence on the back of their car.  

Re your comments: Unless, of course, you have an extreme case of confirmation bias or "I-believe-everything-I-hear" disease...
I suspect I know why...


That of course would be dependent on the topic of conversation, and in this case its called academic research. I have yet to see any signs that you have any real depth of knowledge or understanding about the article that I wrote, so in the end your flippant remarks have no value beyond trash talk.
  
Re: I suspect I know why...

Well please enlighten me Chrisz....

As far as defending my theory--stay tuned for further developments as i address other crazy comments posted here...

See Rogue Scholar entry...June 24th.
On the plus side, if this is all the map these aliens have made, they can't be exceptionally more technically advanced then us. Maybe only a couple hundred years.      

P.S. The estimated age of the universe is 13.7 Billion years, half of the stars are over 10 Billion years old, and its been discovered that planets are ubiquitous (numerous) throughout the cosmos. Dan Wirtheimer at SETI believes that the age of first contact with an alien civilization will be at least billion years. Millions of years is more likely...

Steve


#27    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,969 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 04 August 2013 - 03:52 AM

View PostSteve3951, on 04 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Re: Comments by Chrizs AKA Psychic Spy Posts June 21 and June 24,2013

Steve Pearse here....

My apologies to one and all for the late entry to your forum. Throughout life we wear many different hats and my plate has been very full lately--so your comments about my failure to respond to your Psychic Spy persona comments is just rubbish. If that was your best shot-you have missed the dart board. So Yes, I'm here in your backyard to defend the article. For more information you can refer to my web site:
www.hillwilsonstarmap.net/

Re: And may I suggest that the 'story' might be a little more accurately reported if, instead of restating claims as if they actually happened, you make it clear they are claims.  For example, sentences like this (of which there are many):
"Betty and Barney Hill started having nightmares"

FYI: I have been researching this Extraterrestrial Hypothesis case for over 12 years, and my comments in the article are a reflection of the advanced stage of my personal research into this matter via direct dialog with Betty Hill's niece Kathleen Marden and others for over 6 years.

And some of us has been at it for longer than 12 years. So what?

Quote

For your information Betty Hill passed a polygraph test adminstered by a well known attorney F. Lee Bailey. Nevertheless I do take note of your nitpicking.

Anybody can pass a polygraph if they actually believe what they state. That doesn't mean that it is true, though.

Quote

For your information, which is in John Fuller's book-there was physical evidence on the back of their car.  

Utter nonsense, but please do elaborate on what physical evidence that might be, with some references to a scientific analysis.

Quote

Re your comments: Unless, of course, you have an extreme case of confirmation bias or "I-believe-everything-I-hear" disease...
I suspect I know why...


That of course would be dependent on the topic of conversation, and in this case its called academic research. I have yet to see any signs that you have any real depth of knowledge or understanding about the article that I wrote, so in the end your flippant remarks have no value beyond trash talk.

Re: I suspect I know why...

Well please enlighten me Chrisz....

As far as defending my theory--stay tuned for further developments as i address other crazy comments posted here...

See Rogue Scholar entry...June 24th.
On the plus side, if this is all the map these aliens have made, they can't be exceptionally more technically advanced then us. Maybe only a couple hundred years.            

Right, and you truly believe that? 2 dimensional maps to navigate in a 3 dimensional space?  

Quote

P.S. The estimated age of the universe is 13.7 Billion years, half of the stars are over 10 Billion years old, and its been discovered that planets are ubiquitous (numerous) throughout the cosmos. Dan Wirtheimer at SETI believes that the age of first contact with an alien civilization will be at least billion years. Millions of years is more likely...

Steve

We all know that, but that does not mean that ET has the ability to travel here let alone visit us.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#28    ChrLzs

ChrLzs

    Just a contributor..

  • Member
  • 2,858 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast (Qld, Australia)

  • I only floccinaucinihilipilificate
    when it IS worthless...

Posted 04 August 2013 - 04:51 AM

View PostSteve3951, on 04 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Re: Comments by Chrizs AKA Psychic Spy Posts June 21 and June 24,2013
Who is Chrizs?  Look carefully - it is ChrLzs (pronounced Charles).  And AKA 'Psychic Spy'??  You do realise that the 'Psychic Spy' thing is an automatic level assigned to members here depending on their post count?  For that reason, I won't be making a big thing about you being an 'Alien Embryo'...

Quote

Steve Pearse here....
My apologies to one and all for the late entry to your forum.
That's ok, although when I disappear for a while, I generally try to pop by and explain my absence.  It seems particularly odd to not do that when your own article is published..

Quote

Throughout life we wear many different hats and my plate has been very full lately--so your comments about my failure to respond to your Psychic Spy persona comments is just rubbish. If that was your best shot-you have missed the dart board.
As stated above, it's *not* my Psychic Spy persona.  I'm just ChrLzs..  Now, as far as my comments being 'rubbish'.. the only one I can see criticising your non-appearance is this:

Quote

Tis a pity that it seems the author of that 'article' is not interested in defending it.  I suspect I know why...
That comment was posted after waiting 3 full days and nights after the publication of your article.  I'll let others judge how 'rubbish' it was after this unfolds.  I'll also happily elaborate on my suspicions, which I have to say have not been alleviated by the content of your post..  But let's move on to that, and see how well you play darts (?)....

Quote

So Yes, I'm here in your backyard to defend the article. For more information you can refer to my web site:
{spam removed}
No, that won't be happening.  This being a discussion forum (not a place to seek hits for your site), you can bring your claims here and defend them.

Quote

Quote

..may I suggest that the 'story' might be a little more accurately reported if, instead of restating claims as if they actually happened, you make it clear they are claims.  For example, sentences like this (of which there are many):
"Betty and Barney Hill started having nightmares"
FYI: I have been researching this Extraterrestrial Hypothesis case for over 12 years, and my comments in the article are a reflection of the advanced stage of my personal research into this matter via direct dialog with Betty Hill's niece Kathleen Marden and others for over 6 years.
1. Please learn to quote properly.
2. Please answer the point made and don't just change the subject.
3. Your alleged 12 years of 'research' is irrelevant.  Verifiable experience in real, cited investigations - be they scientific or legal - might be of interest, but it's what you present here that matters.
4. Anecdotes are not evidence and are of very little worth even if they were not from a potentially biased source..

Quote

For your information Betty Hill passed a polygraph test adminstered by a well known attorney F. Lee Bailey.
Oh dear.
1. Polygraphs are not admissible as evidence in most jurisdictions.  Do you know why?  Let us discuss that in detail..
2. Polygraphs, no matter how expertly used, are (obviously) totally and completely useless if the person holds false beliefs.  Let us also discuss that..
3. What experience did the well-known attorney have in psychology?  In using a polygraph? In the admissibility of polygraph-verified evidence and how that relates to actual reality?  Me, I would have thought a polygraph expert would be better than a supposedly well-known attorney.
When was the test given, and under what circumstances, Steve?
And may I ask, is that the same F. Lee Bailey who was disbarred in two US states?
(I already know the answers to those - I'm just wondering why you are leaving out some rather important details... but don't worry, I'm collating a list of all the omissions that I will bring out a bit later)

Quote

Nevertheless I do take note of your nitpicking.
Please continue to do so and properly address each point I make, thanks.

Quote

For your information, which is in John Fuller's book-there was physical evidence on the back of their car.
Again, do you need me to explain what a discussion forum is?  I can't find any mention of this in your article, so bring it here for discussion.

Quote

Well please enlighten me Chrisz....
I (and Badeskov) have begun that above.  Please address the points we've made ... and we'll see if it is working.

Edited by Chrlzs, 04 August 2013 - 04:58 AM.

___
All my posts about Apollo are dedicated to the memory of MID - who knew, lived and was an integral part of, Apollo.

#29    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,969 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:19 PM

Just to add to Chrlzs' excellent post, here are a couple of links where this case has been discussed before for those interested.

http://www.unexplain...ic=120143&st=45
http://www.unexplain...pic=82017&st=45

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov, 04 August 2013 - 05:20 PM.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#30    Steve3951

Steve3951

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2013

Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:49 PM

Sundew post 22 June

Hi Sundew

Post:
I wonder if I showed most of the readers here a map of a few dozen stars, could anyone reproduce it, from memory, after a supposedly traumatic event like an alien abduction, and do so with enough accuracy that it would be recognizable? And where would it be recognizable from? Earth? Or the supposed alien's home world? And at what orientation (i.e. which way is "up" or perhaps north), it could be quite different to you and to "them"? You could draw several dots on a page and a computer might match them up with stars in the night sky, but if your drawing was off by just a fraction it could easily match them with completely different stars. There is also the magnitude, color, etcetera of the stars to consider. To me this map seems rather worthless on the face of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re:

I wonder if I showed most of the readers here a map of a few dozen stars, could anyone reproduce it, from memory, after a supposedly traumatic event like an alien abduction, and do so with enough accuracy that it would be recognizable?

The star map that Betty Hill drew was drawn in several years later in 1964 as a post hypnotic suggestion from Dr. Simon, and there is information that hypnosis does help to recall information. So your question should be whether or not hypnosis can improve ones memory. This article written by John Ryder says Ph. D. says yes.


Does Hypnosis Improve Memory?

Attention, memory, and focus.
Published on September 28, 2009 by John Ryder, Ph.D. in Hypnosis: The Power of Trance



Over the years many clients have come to me asking for hypnosis to find lost jewelry, valuable papers, or items that were simply misplaced. Most of the time I have been successful in helping these people retrieve their items. The same applies to actual memories that may have been forgotten. The research literature is full of studies that document the power of hypnosis to enhance memory. Most studies are laboratory based experiments that usually show a significant increase in the recall of hypnotized subjects as compared to normal controls. Articles about psychology are full of stories of people who recover lost things or recall memories that presumably were lost.

Have you added more to your original posting?  

Is your proposed "few dozen stars" map going to be just a bunch of random make believe stars or real stars that have the potential of harboring a habitable planet within it's goldilocks zone? Fish at least tried in her ZR theory to make sense out of the 26 star map attempts and ended up using some unorthodox means to achieve her goal of naming ZR as base stars. The challenge you are posing is interesting, but incomplete since we don't know whether your hub star is in the southern hemisphere or northern hemisphere. Using the Right ascension and Declination of your hub star could be used to search for other nearby stars that might have habitable planets.

The Key to understanding this is the full conversation between them as the leader being challenged Betty to identify the location of our sun. The two large nickel sized stars were blown up to get her attention--but she never tried to. The star map in my opinion answers to fundamental questions which is where they come form and where we are in relationship to our solar neighborhood.  The up is a higher declination on the celestial sphere-with our position at 0,00,000.   

Re:

There is also the magnitude, color, etcetera of the stars to consider.

And the spectral type of the star, the age of the star, and the M/H rating, whether or not its variable, the TEFF reading to mention a few other etc-etra items.

As a suggestion you might read up on the metallicity aspects of planetary formation.

Re:
To me this map seems rather worthless on the face of it.

This is a simple graphic of Betty Hill's star map and the proper indentification of the stars involved. See the iink to see the stars is provided on my web site.

You really need to educate yourself---Recommend that you re-read the article

See my web site: www.hillwilsonstarmap.net


Steve





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users