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Telepathy through Time?


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#1    Threewhens

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:48 PM

Hello.

Lately, I've been exploring the phenomenon of retropsychokinesis, which is basically an area of parapsychology that explores whether the human mind has the ability to influence the past.

The idea is basically that instead of using telepathy to send a message across space, you try to send a message across time.

Has anyone ever tried sending messages across time?

Thanks.


#2    Hugh

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:59 AM

I've always been fascinated with this idea.

What if the brain could generate tachyon flow?

Don't the theoretical tachyons move faster-than-light (FTL)?

Could they then move backwards in time?

What if we could send information using tachyons (or some other means) to ourselves in the past?

I tried an experiment over several weeks based on this idea.

After the local lottery numbers were drawn each week, I wrote them down and then tried to focus on sending them FTL to myself in the past at a certain time using thoughts (and hopefully some tachyons!).

Then, when that pre-draw time came up each week I tried to focus on thoughts (or tachyons!) that I knew that I would be sending back to myself after the draw was over with the winning numbers.

Unfortunately, I didn't win the lottery, but I really enjoyed the experiment and the attempt to communicate through time this way. :)


#3    Threewhens

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:36 AM

View PostHugh, on 24 June 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

I've always been fascinated with this idea.

What if the brain could generate tachyon flow?

Don't the theoretical tachyons move faster-than-light (FTL)?

Could they then move backwards in time?

What if we could send information using tachyons (or some other means) to ourselves in the past?

I tried an experiment over several weeks based on this idea.

After the local lottery numbers were drawn each week, I wrote them down and then tried to focus on sending them FTL to myself in the past at a certain time using thoughts (and hopefully some tachyons!).

Then, when that pre-draw time came up each week I tried to focus on thoughts (or tachyons!) that I knew that I would be sending back to myself after the draw was over with the winning numbers.

Unfortunately, I didn't win the lottery, but I really enjoyed the experiment and the attempt to communicate through time this way. :)

Thanks for sharing your experiment, Hugh.

On the subject of tachyons...haven't we already made particles exceed the speed of light? Physicists have gotten waves to travel at 300 times the speed of light. And this was achieved in the year 2000 (http://www.guardian..../20/technology2).

Another device that makes radio waves travel faster than light has also been invented (http://www.guardian..../20/technology2).

So shouldn't superluminal time travel already be possible?

Maybe it'll be a while before we can send entire humans into the past, since we're complex organisms composed of billions of atoms and there's a risk of the human dying. But sending information into the past might be more doable. The device that allows radio waves to exceed light speed might be able to do that.

It would be really great if we could do this telepathically, though. We could send messages or dreams to ourselves or other people, in the past.

I'm going to try some retropsychokinesis experiments of my own, starting off small and hopefully expanding. I've gotten my hands on some books on the subject, hopefully there's some information I can use.


#4    Hugh

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

Great to hear Threewhens. I'd be interested in hearing about your experiments with this idea.

II truly believe that the human mind has the potential to achieve so much more than we currently think is possible.

I also believe that we are connected to others, and the universe and through time much more closely than we think as well.

With the proper understanding, control and execution, I think that this idea would work, and it wouldn't involve the creation of any paradoxes within the totality of all that exists.

What I mean by that is, from one particular viewpoint it may look like there is a paradox, but in the big picture, all is accounted for and perfectly understandable. :)


#5    Jessica Christ

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:12 PM

The time travel through meditation thread might be of interest here.

http://www.unexplain...l=&fromsearch=1

Prayers can also help those in the past and futute.

The universe = space + time.

Outside of it there is no past or future because everything is happening at once.


#6    Threewhens

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:59 PM

^Thanks for showing me the other thread.

The people in the other thread seemed to be focusing on how you could "change" the past by changing your perception of it. But I'm more interested in attempting to actually change the past, not just my perception of it. Even a small change would be a milestone.

Although I'm not exactly sure how, I do have reason to believe that it is possible. Previous retropsychokinesis experiments have shown that the mind may be able to produce small changes to past events. For example, the experiments performed by Helmut Schmidt:

"Schmidt went on to run experiments similar to the original ones (PK effects on electronically generated random data), the only diference being that the data was prerecorded (and, importantly, unobserved), rather than generated in "real time" as the experiments were carred out. Despite being extraordinarily counterintuitive, the results suggested strongly that unobserved random events which occured in the past are subject to psychokinetic influence - in other words, the human mind can in some (limited) sense "influence" or at least "select" the past." (http://www.fourmilab...p/proposal.html).

His experiment is described briefly here (from article "Martial Arts Students Influence the Past"):

"Schmidt's experiments are described briefly. They involved a group of martial arts students as subjects, being shown prerecorded random numbers via an electronic display. The numbers had been generated some months earlier by an apparatus involving a radioactive source and a decay counter (radioactive decay timings being as "truly random" as anything one can find in nature). The students attempted to exert a mental "influence" on the visual display, whose behaviour was determined by the prerecorded numbers. In this way, they would be supposedly influencing the statistical distributions of the numbers themselves. "Remarkably", the article claims, a significant bias was found in the numbers, "one that had a less than 1 in 1000 probability of occuring by chance". It is claimed that "elaborate precautions were taken to prevent any cheating". Precise descriptions of experimental procedures in many similar experiments carried out by Schmidt can be found in the numerous articles available in the RPKP archive." (http://www.fourmilab...kp/martial.html).

Although his experiments have been replicated, I do wish that there were different retropsychokinesis experiments to look at as well.

I'm not sure if anybody here is keeping up with Dr. John Cramer's experiments, but he is a physicist that is actually trying to send a signal backward in time. Last time I checked, progress had slowed due to financial problems, but it will be fantastic if he's able to do it (http://www.messageto...mmunication.php).

Edited by Threewhens, 24 June 2013 - 07:02 PM.


#7    Hugh

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:40 AM

Interesting links! I like the tachyon visualization picture. It would be cool if they actually do exist and can be controlled, although for every great use there are evil ones too unfortunately...

Threewhens, what kind of experiments were you thinking of trying?


#8    Simatong

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:01 AM

I honestly think that time displaced psychokinesis is possible (like having a person with psychokinetic abilities manipulate the probability of such and such phenomenon happening on a certain day and at a certain time, though this would have to do with probability manipulation and chronokinesis, the latter of which I believe would only affect future time, for reasons I will explain below). Other than that, I believe it would more or less be impossible for a future self to effect a past self because, well~~~the future you doesn't exist yet; the future is directly dependent on outcomes and factors pertaining to its past (our present). I believe that the reason that precognitive people can see into the future is because (assuming they are genuinely accurate), what they see is a glimpse of what is going to happen, kind of like a preview. Some might argue that if they see an event in the future(I use "see" assuming that the individual is a clairvoyant precog)  then it must already be happening in the future. Not so. n some ways it is kind of like meteorology; the meteorologists gives you a forecast about tomorrow or the day after tomorrow's weather even though the weather hasn't happened yet. It doesn't mean it's happening in the future, you are just being told what probably will happen.

Anyway, my point is, and I truly believe, that a non-existent entity has no way of affecting a past event. That is analogous to saying that a rose can affect the seed it was planted to be. Since the rose depends on the planting of the seed to exist, it is, as of that point in time when planting is about to comment, a non-existing, and thus a (physically) non-influential entity.
As for test itself, something that seemingly conclusive, if it fulfilled all scientific parameters and was peer-reviewed, would be the talk of the town. Since it's not, I have to assume there were some issues with it.


#9    Threewhens

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:21 AM

View PostHugh, on 25 June 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

Interesting links! I like the tachyon visualization picture. It would be cool if they actually do exist and can be controlled, although for every great use there are evil ones too unfortunately...

Threewhens, what kind of experiments were you thinking of trying?

I'll probably start with something somewhat similar to what Schmidt did, attempting to influence random numbers. I'll start out with something very basic. I can't replicate his experiment exactly, since I don't have access to the same equipment that he used, but I'll make do with what I have access to.

I'll try using the random generators from here (http://www.random.org/), most likely I'll try them all, but first only the ones dealing with numbers (such as the dice roller); I'll have a friend generate the numbers (so that I can't see them), and then afterward I can begin trying to influence the outcome retroactively.
I'll do this at least 5 times.

So the numbers will already have been generated by a friend in the past, and it'll be my job to attempt to influence them from the present.

As the control group, I'll also have a friend produce a set of numbers that I don't influence.

Unfortunately...I know nothing about analyzing probability in data. I guess if I tried something basic, such as focusing on one number (4?) throughout, and comparing how many times 4 appears versus other numbers, that would be a start. But I'll try to get in touch with one of my math professors and ask if one of them could assess the probability more accurately. I can report the results back here afterward, whether I'm successful or not.

And it's not exactly a time travel experiment, but it is something interesting and relevant that I found, just for fun. It's called the "Time twisting tool": http://www.timetwist...ndsintothepast/



Quote

I honestly think that time displaced psychokinesis is possible (like having a person with psychokinetic abilities manipulate the probability of such and such phenomenon happening on a certain day and at a certain time, though this would have to do with probability manipulation and chronokinesis, the latter of which I believe would only affect future time, for reasons I will explain below). Other than that, I believe it would more or less be impossible for a future self to effect a past self because, well~~~the future you doesn't exist yet; the future is directly dependent on outcomes and factors pertaining to its past (our present). I believe that the reason that precognitive people can see into the future is because (assuming they are genuinely accurate), what they see is a glimpse of what is going to happen, kind of like a preview. Some might argue that if they see an event in the future(I use "see" assuming that the individual is a clairvoyant precog)  then it must already be happening in the future. Not so. n some ways it is kind of like meteorology; the meteorologists gives you a forecast about tomorrow or the day after tomorrow's weather even though the weather hasn't happened yet. It doesn't mean it's happening in the future, you are just being told what probably will happen.

Anyway, my point is, and I truly believe, that a non-existent entity has no way of affecting a past event. That is analogous to saying that a rose can affect the seed it was planted to be. Since the rose depends on the planting of the seed to exist, it is, as of that point in time when planting is about to comment, a non-existing, and thus a (physically) non-influential entity.
As for test itself, something that seemingly conclusive, if it fulfilled all scientific parameters and was peer-reviewed, would be the talk of the town. Since it's not, I have to assume there were some issues with it.

It seems like you're basically saying that the future does not exist yet, and therefore it cannot influence anything yet. Unless they believe in simultaneous time (or something similar to that), most people won't argue on that idea, so I see your point.

I have read a little bit about chronokinesis - isn't that basically where one attempts to speed up or slow down time? Or is there more to it?

I haven't been able to find a debunking of Schmidt, but if you're able to find any, then it would be very good if you'd let us know - the truth is important. I did a Google search to try to see if anyone had debunked him, but didn't really find anything. Since my experiments will be more for personal enjoyment, and I lack access to sophisticated equipment, they won't be as carefully controlled as his were.

Edited by Threewhens, 25 June 2013 - 06:44 AM.


#10    Simatong

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:20 AM

View PostThreewhens, on 25 June 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

I'll probably start with something somewhat similar to what Schmidt did, attempting to influence random numbers. I'll start out with something very basic. I can't replicate his experiment exactly, since I don't have access to the same equipment that he used, but I'll make do with what I have access to.

I'll try using the random generators from here (http://www.random.org/), most likely I'll try them all, but first only the ones dealing with numbers (such as the dice roller); I'll have a friend generate the numbers (so that I can't see them), and then afterward I can begin trying to influence the outcome retroactively.
I'll do this at least 5 times.

So the numbers will already have been generated by a friend in the past, and it'll be my job to attempt to influence them from the present.

As the control group, I'll also have a friend produce a set of numbers that I don't influence.

Unfortunately...I know nothing about analyzing probability in data. I guess if I tried something basic, such as focusing on one number (4?) throughout, and comparing how many times 4 appears versus other numbers, that would be a start. But I'll try to get in touch with one of my math professors and ask if one of them could assess the probability more accurately. I can report the results back here afterward, whether I'm successful or not.

And it's not exactly a time travel experiment, but it is something interesting and relevant that I found, just for fun. It's called the "Time twisting tool": http://www.timetwist...ndsintothepast/





It seems like you're basically saying that the future does not exist yet, and therefore it cannot influence anything yet. Unless they believe in simultaneous time (or something similar to that), most people won't argue on that idea, so I see your point.

I have read a little bit about chronokinesis - isn't that basically where one attempts to speed up or slow down time? Or is there more to it?

I haven't been able to find a debunking of Schmidt, but if you're able to find any, then it would be very good if you'd let us know - the truth is important. I did a Google search to try to see if anyone had debunked him, but didn't really find anything. Since my experiments will be more for personal enjoyment, and I lack access to sophisticated equipment, they won't be as carefully controlled as his were.

From http://www.skepdic.c...psihistory.html

Look for the words Helmut Schmidt with the "Find" cache thingamabob. Basically, as seems to be the case with MANY parapsychologists, there doesn't seem to be a very reproducible effect going on.

Edited by Simatong, 25 June 2013 - 07:22 AM.


#11    Threewhens

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostSimatong, on 25 June 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

From http://www.skepdic.c...psihistory.html

Look for the words Helmut Schmidt with the "Find" cache thingamabob. Basically, as seems to be the case with MANY parapsychologists, there doesn't seem to be a very reproducible effect going on.

Thank you for the link, Simatong.

The only part I saw about Schmidt was the following:

"In the 1960s, physicist Helmut Schmidt started using random event generators to do micro-PK (MPK) experiments. According to Radin, over the years Schmidt provided solid scientific support for the PK hypothesis and the people involved in the PEAR group replicated Schmidt's work in 258 experimental studies and 127 control studies. C.E.M. Hansel, however, claims that regarding all the studies done after 1969 and before 1987 that attempted to replicate Schmidt’s work: “The main fact that emerges from this data is that 71 experiments gave a result supporting Schmidt’s findings and 261 experiments failed to do so” (Hansel 1989: 185). Radin says that between 1959 and 1987 there were 832 RNG studies by 68 investigators: 597 experimental studies and 235 control studies. The best of these studies are those done by Robert Jahn and his group at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research laboratory (PEAR), which closed down at the end of February, 2007, having convinced hardly anyone that they had discovered anything of any interest."

The problem seems to have been that most replications of the experiment failed to produce the same effect.

From this sentence (“The main fact that emerges from this data is that 71 experiments gave a result supporting Schmidt’s findings and 261 experiments failed to do so”), I wonder what was the difference between the 71 successful ones and the 261 unsuccessful ones? No problems were expressed concerning his randomization method, and the data's integrity was not called into question, either. I'll still carry out my own experiment(s), and we'll see whether they fall into the successful or the unsuccessful camp. One problem is that there was no mention of a control group in any of them (neither the original experiments nor the replications); controls would have helped a lot. Because if those 71/261 were different by chance rather than by any influence, then the control groups would have reflected some chance-related degree of difference as well. My methods aren't as accurate as theirs, but I am at least having a control group. I wonder why they didn't?

Edited by Threewhens, 25 June 2013 - 06:35 PM.


#12    Quaentum

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

First does telepathy travel faster than the speed of light?  If no then telepathy into the past can't even be considered.

Second, Telepathy into the past has the same problem as physical travel into the past.  Time travel is not space travel and the Earth moves millions of miles each day with it's movement around the sun and the solar systems movement around the galactic core.  The problem becomes for telepathy , does it have the range and can you target the one location in the universe where the Earth was then?  The possibility is so astronomically high that failure is pretty much a given.

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#13    Hugh

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:21 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 26 June 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

The problem becomes for telepathy , does it have the range and can you target the one location in the universe where the Earth was then?

Enter "spooky action at a distance". ;)


#14    Threewhens

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:12 PM

Hello,

I'm still reading and looking at different methods people have used to attempt to achieve a retropsychokinetic effect, and came across this:

http://windofthesoul...ering-the-past/

I can't find anything else on it except for the link within the article, though. I have no idea whether these people were successful ot not...I'm guessing not, since they were trying to do a very big task (stop someone on the Titanic from dying?), but it was an interesting thing to attempt.


#15    Threewhens

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:26 AM

Hello,

Just popping in to say that I'm still in the process of exploring what is the best method of retroactive influence. So far, I've found two people (on other websites) who claim that they have successfully altered the past multiple times. I have no way of verifying their claims, but they are the only leads I have, so I'll keep looking into their methods.

One claims to use some method of conscience projection that he invented, and the other claims to be able to delete events from the timeline using some other mental technique. The latter reminds me of "temporal cloaking".





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