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The Revelation of Jesus Christ


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#1    Bluefinger

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:19 AM

This is mostly intended for Christians.  However, if you have a response and do not believe in Jesus, please be respectful with your answers.  I've been doing some research on what was actually meant by 'the revelation of Jesus Christ.'  Here are some passages:

"But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed." (Luke 17:25-30 ESV)

This one is talking about the generation that rejected Jesus being destroyed.  It would seem as though that Jesus was saying that the Son of Man would be revealed in Jerusalem's destruction.

"Then he began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will." (Matthew 11:20-26 ESV)

The little ones in this passage, I believe, are the generation that would believe and escape this judgment.  There is plenty of passages in the Gospel narratives that suggest that the children of the generation that rejected Jesus would face that judgment.

"Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you..." (1 Peter 1:13, 20 ESV)

So evidently, the last times was the times just before Jesus' return.

It seems like there was a history that hasn't been covered.  From my research, it seems like there was actually an exile of Christians from Judea shortly before Jerusalem was destroyed.  1 Peter seems to support this as well as Revelation 12 does.  And here is my last one:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (Revelation 1:1, 2, 4-6 ESV)

According to this passage, Jesus had already received power, was ruling, and had already made His disciples a kingdom.  It seems like the revelation of Jesus Christ was the destruction of Jerusalem.  Tradition has it that Nero ordered a suppression of Christianity shortly before Rome went to war on Judea.  If I'm correct about this, then we should find more evidence of that throughout the Bible.  According to my research, half of Revelation was dedicated to describe the events that led to the exile of the Church and the events leading up to Jerusalem's destruction.

What do you think?  Is the revelation of Jesus Christ an event that has yet to happen, kept in suspense for over 2,000 years, or was it an event where the order of things were changed in heaven and reflected through the destruction of Jerusalem?  

What do you think?



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#2    Frank Merton

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:43 AM

The early Christians, like most new religions, were apocalyptic.  Paul clearly expected Jesus to return in glory in his lifetime.

When the prophesies don't work out as expected, people tend to find excuses for the delay, and begin to put doomsday off into the indefinite future.


#3    Bluefinger

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:18 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 24 June 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

The early Christians, like most new religions, were apocalyptic.  Paul clearly expected Jesus to return in glory in his lifetime.

When the prophesies don't work out as expected, people tend to find excuses for the delay, and begin to put doomsday off into the indefinite future.

I get what you're saying.

Do you think that maybe the switch in culture had more to do with this dilemma?  

What I mean is this:  The Hebrew eschatology pertained to the promises of Abraham.  It was anticipated that the Messiah would usher in the promises if only they were faithful to the Torah.  That is consistent with Old Testament prophetic writings.

In the Gospel narratives of Matthew and Mark, you find the same pattern.  The Pharisees anticipated that the Messiah would come and give them the promises that God made to Abraham concerning the Promised Land, military victory, blessings, and many offspring.  When John the Baptist arrived on the scene, the bubble was popped:

"In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the Lord; make his paths straight." But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not presume to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father," for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:1, 3, 7-12 ESV)

I know its a long read, but basically, John the Baptist was telling the Jewish leadership that God's wrath would come upon the Jewish Nation.  Historically, we know this to be true.  While the Pharisees expected blessings because of their obedience to the Torah, per Deuteronomy 28:1-14, they instead received curses for their unrighteousness as indicated by John the Baptist and laid out per Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

All throughout the Gospel of Matthew, the parables point to the kingdom being taken from the Jews and given to those bearing fruits of righteousness and repentance.

"What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, "Son, go and work in the vineyard today." And he answered, "I will not," but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, "I go, sir," but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him. "Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country. When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to get his fruit. And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them. Finally he sent his son to them, saying, "They will respect my son." But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, "This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance." And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons." Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes"? Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him." When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because they held him to be a prophet." (Matthew 21:28-46 ESV)

Basically, the inheritance of the promises of Abraham was going to be taken away from the Jewish leaders and given to anybody that followed Jesus.  Jesus used a parable that said this:

"but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" (Matthew 6:23 ESV)

The eye, or the light, was the religious leaders of that time, the rabbis.  It wasn't that the whole nation was bad.  It's just that most Jews followed the rabbis.  So, if the rabbis seriously erred and offended God, so did the rest of the nation that followed them.  As shown in the narratives, the whole nation rejected their messiah because the leaders that they followed rejected the messiah.

This is entirely a Jewish matter.  Yet, we interpret much of the Bible from a Greek perspective; i.e. through our philosophy.  When the Jewish nation was destroyed, nobody went around showing off their foreskins saying that they were blessed by God and everybody else was cursed.  Not even the Jewish Christians.  The Gentiles they preached to, then, easily filtered the Gospel narratives and epistles (the ones they didn't write) through a neoplatonic or whatever-have-you philosophy.  

So I sought out to get the historical perspective so as to properly circumvent the Greek influence and find out what the texts were truly saying.  I'm still researching it, but it seems like it's consistent throughout most of the New Testament.

Edited by Bluefinger, 24 June 2013 - 05:20 AM.

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#4    Jessem

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:44 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 24 June 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

The early Christians, like most new religions, were apocalyptic.  Paul clearly expected Jesus to return in glory in his lifetime.

When the prophesies don't work out as expected, people tend to find excuses for the delay, and begin to put doomsday off into the indefinite future.

Hey Frank :)

I just wanted to tell you that your half right. The original Christians were not apocolyptic :( . They were ready for heaven, and the fact that alot of them encountered Jesus First Hand, the original Christians were about faith and hoped for change. The apocolyptic nature was actually started by non-christians/Jews/pagans and so forth. Paul did hope that Jesus did come back during His lifetime, and alot of his followers prayed he did. The time did seem pretty dismal, but his true followers and scholars of his word knew it was not yet time for His return. The crop was not yet ready to be reaped. Alot of prophecie you speak of are'nt even of God, when you study Gods word you will see. On his death days he knew that Gods owrd must bespread, only because he knew that time was not the same for God as it is for us. NO ONE knows when frank, not even Jesus. Only God in Heaven :) The word itself tells us to be ready, people just like to pretend they know. No one does or will.

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#5    Ogbin

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

DEUTERONOMY 32:21 "They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people: I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

  1 PETER 2:9-10 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

ROMANS 11:7-8 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day."

ROMANS 11:11 "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

ROMANS 11:25-27 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, untill the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness fom Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."


#6    Jessem

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:23 PM

View PostOgbin, on 24 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

DEUTERONOMY 32:21 "They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people: I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

  1 PETER 2:9-10 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

ROMANS 11:7-8 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day."

ROMANS 11:11 "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

ROMANS 11:25-27 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, untill the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness fom Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Ogbin,
This is great scripture. But can you please explain why you posted thes in-particular?

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#7    Bluefinger

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:35 PM

View PostOgbin, on 24 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

DEUTERONOMY 32:21 "They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people: I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

  1 PETER 2:9-10 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

ROMANS 11:7-8 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day."

ROMANS 11:11 "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

ROMANS 11:25-27 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, untill the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness fom Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Awesome quotes Ogbin!  And very relevant.  

The Fullness of Gentiles, the fullness of inclusion of every nation under the authority of Jesus, the ruler of the kings of the earth.

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