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How things started with me


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#16    ouija ouija

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:45 PM

I'm not sceptical about what you say, it's just that it's almost totally outside my sphere of experience. I am open to what you are saying and certainly interested in it ....... that's as much as I could say right now.

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

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#17    scots_nomad

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

View Posts33ker, on 25 June 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Did you find out what the picture with c.ds meant? Also a very big welcome to UM.

Hi S33ker and thanks for your welcome and your interest.  I wouldn’t say the six armed spiral pattern made from my CDs had any one specific ‘meaning’ as such but it was very relevant, significant and meaningful insofar as it told me a hell of a lot even before I got round to talking with them.

Before the spiral pattern appeared things had been getting weirder and weirder over a period of a few weeks, growing increasingly ‘bigger’ and more bizarre with each day that past however the sudden appearance of that spiral pattern represented a huge step in that process to me.  The weirdness had started with what seemed to me at the time to be a whole bunch of weird coincidences.  In the beginning I was happy to accept that that was all it was, ‘Coincidence’, however with every day that past the coincidences got both more frequent, more bizarre and more improbable – the phenomenon wasn’t just growing, it seemed to be growing exponentially!  (I have previously described it as being hit by an avalanche of WEIRD!).

At the same time as those coincidences started I also started having numerous problems with anything electrical.  During that period it seemed like every electrical item in my house had developed a mind of its own – my air conditioners, my shower, my electric kettle, my lights, my landline telephone seemed to decide whether or not they were going to work on a completely random basis, sometimes working fine and at others refusing to work at all for no reason I could ever identify only to start working perfectly normally again later without anyone ‘fixing’ anything (and I lost count of the number of times light bulbs just exploded (literally) as I walked into a room or walked past them (Something I could only remember happening once during my life before that period and yet happening maybe 6 times during that month!).

On top of that I was beginning to suspect that someone had hacked into my computer, my email system and my mobile phone as it seemed that someone was monitoring and censoring what emails or texts I sent to people – certain emails I tried to send just wouldn’t ‘Go’ no matter how many times I pressed ‘send’, and yet if I saved that text as a draft and typed out a new mail to the same person it would send without a problem but if I tried to send the saved draft mail immediately after that they still wouldn’t send!  On other occasions text messages I sent to one friend were sent to someone else I knew (even when I had used the ‘Reply’ function to an incoming text, so it obviously wasn’t a case of me accidentally sending it to the wrong contact!).  I had so many problems with losing my internet connection midway through drafting long emails that I got into the habit of typing any long email messages out on a Word document first and then copying and pasting them onto and email once completed however as soon as I came up with that ‘fix’ my computer developed a habit of completely freezing up for no apparent reason, forcing me to ‘crash out’ and restart the computer thus losing the document I was working on (I was trying to write a book at that time and frequently lost who paragraphs of unsaved work through similar unexplained problems).  I really had numerous problems with both my hand-phone and my computer during that period that had never been a problem either before or since – I would repeatedly find that I suddenly had no signal when I wanted to make a call or send a text even when in the centre of the city surrounded by other people using their hand-phones without a problem, I frequently found that I had no credit left in my phone (I used prepayment cards in Vietnam because it’s easier that way as a foreigner) and on one occasion I had no credit even after I had just added $20 credit before trying to make a call, and on one of the weirdest occasions I saw the power bars on my freshly charged up phone could down from 5-4-3-2-1 within one second as I was waiting for my phone to send a text but perhaps the strangest of all of that type of ‘the weirdness’ happened just a night or so before the spiral appeared on my phone!

I was drafting a long email to one of my friends on a Word document prior to copying and pasting it to my email system and at one point during the mail I wrote a paragraph about ‘the weirdness’ that was going on all around me at that time.  As soon as I wrote the paragraph I though it made me sound a bit nuts and a bit paranoid so I thought about deleting it right away but couldn’t make up my mind whether I should or not.  I decided to highlight that paragraph in Blue Text in the meantime (to make it easy to find later) and then finish typing out the rest of the mail before deciding whether to leave the blue text paragraph in or not.  Maybe 10 minutes later I finished drafting the mail and scrolled the document up so I could reread the paragraph again and decide whether to leave it in or delete it however to my complete amazement and disbelief when I scrolled up to where the blue text paragraph should be it was already deleted and all that was left in its place was a question mark – also in blue text! (and it wasn’t as if I had ended the paragraph with a ? and somehow accidentally deleted the rest of it somehow, as the original paragraph I had written ended up with a whole load of exclamation marks!!!!!!  (just like that :yes: )

Anyway, the point I was really trying to make here was that no matter how strange and how inexplicable all the weirdness had been up until that point the sudden appearance of the spiral on my floor took thinks to a whole new level because even though I had no idea how ‘whoever it was that was behind things’ (because by that point I was convinced that someone was behind all those things and that they were picking on me for some reason) was doing it, I could imagine that it was possible for them to be doing it from a distance, possibly even from  another country entirely (NB My former employer were the German company Siemens, who at that time manufactured mobile phones, communication systems, computer and power infrastructure and control systems and they were certainly a potential suspect as I was not on particularly good terms with them at the time, but to be honest I still doubted that they had the capability or organisation to orchestrate all of the stuff that had happened).  The sudden appearance of the spiral on my sitting room floor however took things to a whole new level AND brought things a whole lot closer as someone of something HAD to have been inside my house to have done that!

Well I was going to say a whole lot more about why the spiral patter itself was significant and relevant and about what it told me about ‘them’ however I spent so much time explaining the earlier ‘minor weirdness’ issues (strange how minor they seem to me now however at the time each passing day’s new events each seemed sooo BIG!  :yes: ) that this post is already more than long enough so I will leave my response there for now and maybe pick it up again in a later post.

Bye for now :st

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#18    SSilhouette

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:16 PM

It's like the crop circles in England and elsewhere.  They often show up in helixes and spirals.  I've thought quite a lot as to how this is communication as to how the universe and our physical world is built and functions.

Did they tell you why it was important that we need to know this now?  Are you still in contact with them?  I have experienced some very strange phenomenon which turns some of our ideas of physics on their heads.  I don't want to bring them up just now.  I'm riveted to what you're saying.  My experiences have to do with time and space.  That's all I'll say for now.


#19    NatureBoff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostRingFenceTheCity, on 25 June 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

Hi there scots_nomad and thank you for a wonderful heartfelt story. I'm similar to yourself in that I'm a former scientific officer with a very logical mind. I too have an alternative to the mainstream physics narrative. I too have had near-inexplicable experiences with 'intelligent hidden magical beings'. The message that I want give you is that because this is all relatively new to you, your mind is probably in overdrive to find a coherent explanation. I don't believe in ghosts or spirits, but I do believe in cryptids, animals that have evolved to be as smart as us, but also able to stay undetected to modern science (so far).

P.S. If you want a quick and easy way to see a new scientific revolution in the making, take a look at this thread 1,800yr Lunar Tidal Cycle Fits Glacial Data

All the best
Here's the local dogman story: Mystery beast causing panic in Quang Ngai province

Quote

According to Cao Tan Son, police chief of the Binh Dong Commune, these mysterious incidents have been occurring since May 7 at the foot of Dinh Mountain in Son Tra Commune.
However, no one has seen the strange creature that could have caused such large footprints measuring almost 12-15cm. Over 20 dogs have also been killed in the area and now around 280 households of the commune are living in panic.
Nguyen Thi Bich Ngoc, a 70-year-old woman was the first to find her dead pet dog on the night of May 7. She said that her dog was found without its head and some body organs.
On the same night, four dogs were also found dead in the same manner, approximately 15-20 kilograms from Ngoc’s neighborhood.
Many households living near the Dinh Mountain said they had heard very loud roaring sounds.
In related news, in the border districts of Si Ma Cai and Muong Khuong in the northwestern province of Lao Cai, people have repeatedly seen strange species of dog like animals.
The strange creatures have bitten about 15 people in Ban Me, Thao Chu Phin, Quang Than San and Si Ma Cai communes in the two districts.
According to local residents, the strange doglike creatures have slender, long bodies, slanting red eyes and their fur coat is marked with white spots, black and white spots or yellow stripes.
They are seen wandering in the villages trying to prey on housedogs or attacking other domestic bred animals like chickens, pigs, goats and horses. They attack any person who tries to drive them away.
Don't believe everything you read. They also have a nice side...

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#20    ouija ouija

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:17 PM

Did 'they' ever explain to you how they constructed the CD spiral?

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

It is only when you form your question precisely and accurately that you receive the true answer.

#21    scots_nomad

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:28 PM

View PostSSilhouette, on 25 June 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

It's like the crop circles in England and elsewhere.  They often show up in helixes and spirals.  I've thought quite a lot as to how this is communication as to how the universe and our physical world is built and functions.

Did they tell you why it was important that we need to know this now?  Are you still in contact with them?  I have experienced some very strange phenomenon which turns some of our ideas of physics on their heads.  I don't want to bring them up just now.  I'm riveted to what you're saying.  My experiences have to do with time and space.  That's all I'll say for now.

Hi SSilhoutte :st  I would have to write so much to answer all the questions in your second paragraph fully but I will try to give some short answers here and maybe explain more later as the thread goes on.  Firstly, they told me lots and lots of things which certainly helped me understand  ‘how the universe and our physical world is built and functions.’ But whether we actually NEED to know that is a matter of opinion I guess.  They also told me some practical stuff which could be hugely beneficial as well as telling me some stuff that with hindsight I would rather not have known.  I’ll explain more about that stuff later I guess.

Regarding whether I am still in contact with them:  Yes but not in the same way (It really would be impossible for me to have had any kind of ‘normal life’ if we continued to communicate in the way we did in those first few weeks).  To me those first few weeks were like a really intensive crash course and during that time I learned a lot about them and also a hell of a lot from them.  During that time they taught me/showed me a lot of other ways they could communicate with me or at least send me ‘hints’ or give me little nudges to bring things to my attention.  One of the methods of communication the demonstrated to me was basically telepathy (I wouldn’t say they taught me how to do it because in truth I didn’t have to do anything – they showed they could hear my thoughts and taught me how to recognise when they were replying…I will do a post specifically about that soon because the first day they demonstrated telepathy was actually quite funny…And maybe I should also mention here that they had a hell of a sense of humour – It wasn’t all fun but at times they really were hilarious!...More to come on that later too).  The really intense crash course lasted about a month but after that we continued to communicate daily but less frequently for another couple of years, but it was always their intention to wean me off that and back to a more normal life where I would get back to making all my decisions myself without discussing things with them first. These days it is more just occasional hints and nudges but I know they can still ‘hear me’ if I want them to.

Regarding turning our understanding of physics, space and time on its head, I really do have sooo much to tell about that but again that will have to wait until later posts because I would have to explain a lot of other steps along the way first.

Glad you are finding the posts interesting and hope you continue to enjoy. :yes:

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#22    scots_nomad

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 25 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Did 'they' ever explain to you how they constructed the CD spiral?

Hi again Ouija.  I would have to answer ‘yes and no’ to that question.  I never specifically asked them how they constructed the spiral but it is similar to something I mentioned in my last post yesterday about how some weird things that happened during the weeks leading up to my first contact with them had seemed SO BIG at the time and yet seemed to be relatively trivial in hindsight after seeing how much weirder things actually got!

In my other post yesterday I noted that the appearance of the spiral on the floor had marked a huge step up in the weirdness which seemed to take things to a whole new level.  As I mentioned yesterday it was the first time that I realised they had been in my house whereas I could imagine that all the stuff before that point was being orchestrated remotely from somewhere else, but it also told me a whole lot more than just that.  For example, I would have known they had been in my house if they had just moved the piles of CDs from one side of the room to the other or if they had just formed the CDs into a simple square or a circle or even if they had just scattered them across the floor, but the spiral pattern explained/demonstrated a whole lot more than any of those other scenarios would have.  The pattern was logical, mathematical, precise which to me showed that I was dealing with something pretty intelligent, but in addition to that the pattern was beautiful and impressive, which said a whole lot more than just ‘they were clever’.

THE most significant thing about the spiral pattern to me however was that I knew it was IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to have made that pattern with my CDs in so short a time!  I would guess it would take me days, maybe even a week to copy that pattern EXACTLY and with the same degree of precision.  Obviously you would ned to go through all the CDs and put them in colour order but that is far far more complicated than it sounds because it is only the colours at the exposed parts of the CDs that would be seen when the pattern was in place (because they all over lapped each other) and yet they had done it so precisely that each arm of the spiral faded as subtly and gradually as the colours in a spectrum.   Sure it may be possible to construct the spiral pattern a bit quicker if a team of people worked on it rather than just one, but the sorting out of the CDs could only be done by one mind and even the laying out the pattern side of things couldn’t really be explained by having lots of people involved as you couldn’t fit enough people into my sitting room to have built it that quickly!  I knew as soon as I saw the spiral on my floor that it was impossible – I think that was actually the first thought that went through my head when I saw it, but knowing something is impossible is not really much comfort when you can see that impossibility in front of your eyes!

When I finally started talking to them I never really thought of asking how they had managed to build the spiral so quickly because I guess I was far more interested in seeing what else they could do.  Not that I specifically asked them to show me what they could do…Maybe I would have done so if necessary but pretty soon into our conversation I realised that they were progressively showing me what other amazing (and impossible) things they could do – each one even more amazing than the last so basically I just went along for the ride and let them decide what ‘tricks’ to show me next.  There are many examples of things I could tell you about – I am sure I will describe more later but I will tell you about one particular ‘demonstration’ they gave me a couple of days into our first chats which made the spiral thing seem like child’s play:

As I mentioned before, I was in the process of packing up my (company supplied) house at the time this all happened – I planned to put my stuff into storage in Vietnam, go back to UK for a holiday and then find a new place to live when I returned to Saigon.  I had been packing things away for a few days before ‘the big event’, and every day during the 3 weeks that followed, in spite of all the bizarre stuff going on around me, I would spend a few hours trying to get myself organised to move out, however  every time I left the house I would come back to find things completely moved around, with things I had already packed away now spread all over my house.  It began to feel like I was taking one step forward and two steps back as far as getting ready to move was concerned, and eventually one day I just lost my temper and started shouting at them for not letting me get on with my packing.  In the middle of my rant ‘they’ said ‘It’s OK, we can help you’.  I told them they could stuff their help as I had seen how much mess their help made, but they insisted and said ‘We can help you in ways you can’t even imagine yet if you let us.’  I said “OK, do it then’, and stood back to see what they would do.  I seriously expected to see things start flying around the room, but instead they said,

“OK, pick up a bundle of your stuff.”
“What kind of stuff?”
“Pick up a bit of everything that’s lying around.  As much as you can hold.”

I picked up some books and magazines, some paperwork, a bundle of CDs and basically some of anything else that was lying around, and when my arms were full I said,

“OK, what now?”
“Now just throw it all over your shoulder.”
”Aye!  Go **** yourself!”
“Just trust us.  Throw it all over your shoulder and let us show you what we can do.”

I decided to trust them, so I just heaved everything over my shoulder, expecting to hear it all flutter gently to wherever it was supposed to go, but instead what I heard was exactly what anyone would expect to ear if they did something so stupid – I heard the CDs crash onto the hard marble tiled floor and all the paperwork and magazines scatter and slide on the floor!  I spun around whilst shouting,

“You ****KING…!”, but I cut off mid-scream, as when I turned around I saw that everything I had just thrown over my shoulder had sorted itself out and landed perfectly sorted into tidy piles on the floor! (NB The CDs were not only perfectly piled but also sorted out alphabetically by genre, as I had been trying to arrange them for days!)

“Wow!  That’s ****ing impossible!”
“Is it really impossible?”
“Phhhhww…Well, I suppose they’ve got to land somewhere, and I suppose in the old ‘infinite number of monkeys’ kind of way it’s not completely impossible, but it’s gotta at least be extremely improbable – even by the standards of how my life has been recently!”
“So not impossible then?”
“No, I suppose technically it’s not impossible.”
”Good!  That’s how we want you to think from now on!  We can do anything in this house as long as it isn’t impossible -  you’ve just got to learn what is possible.”
“OK this could be cool, let’s do a bit more tidying up.”
“OK, you know what to do.”

I picked up another load of paperwork, magazines, CDs and god knows what else in my arms then threw them over my shoulder.  Once again it sounded exactly as you would expect it to in normal circumstances but when I turned around I was delighted to see that not only had everything separated and organised itself in mid-air but it had all fallen directly on top of the piles of similar stuff from my first throw.  I realised that this second pile of CDs would have messed up the alphabetical order of the CDs though because they obviously couldn’t have fallen into the correct space within the first pile.  When I pointed that out to my friends they said ‘Well you know what to do, don’t you?’

‘Ahhh!  Throw the whole pile over my shoulder again?’

I picked up the whole pile of the recently sorted CDs then looked around to see what else I could throw along with them.  I saw an unopened bottle of red wine on the floor (there was actually a whole load of bottles of wine and spirits sitting on the sitting-room floor – A couple of friends had been over at my house the night before ‘Contact’.  When I asked them what they wanted to drink they asked what I had so rather than running through a list I had decided to bring all of the bottles of alcohol through to the sitting room to let them see as I knew I was going to be packing them away into boxes soon anyway).  I picked up a bottle of red wine and said,

‘What would happen if I threw this along with the CDs?’
‘Why don’t you try it and see for yourself?’

That seemed like a good idea (!!!???  I know it probably sounds like a crazy idea to you now but those were strange times for me and it did seem like a good idea at the time!

I threw the CDs and the bottle of wine over my shoulder and heard the CD crash onto the hard marble tiles just like before and I also heard what sounded like the bottle smashing on the hard floor tiles.  I turned around to ssee how they were going to sort that little problem out and I was horrified by what I saw – the wine bottle had indeed smashed on the floor…Or actually going by the mess it had made it seemed like it had exploded on the floor as there was broken glass and red wine everywhere and I was particularly horrified to see that a great deal of the wine seemed to have landed on the cream coloured emulsion-painted wall leaving a huge red stain which reached about five feet up the wall!

‘What the ****???????????????”
“Well what did you expect woiuld happen when you threw a glass bottle over your shoulder?’
‘Oh **** you!  I knew you were gonna **** this up!  **** you!’

I started toward my kitchen to get a wet cloth to see if I could wipe the wine off the wall before it stained as I knew my landlord would be coming to inspect the house before I got my deposit back and no doubt he’d want to keep it if he was going to have to repaint the place.

I heard my friends say ‘Wait!  Just leave it!’ but I really had had enough of their crap by that point so I just shouted ‘**** you!’ once more and carried on into the kitchen.  I returned with a wet cloth and tried to wipe the wine off the wall but it soon became clear to me that I was just making it worse.

‘’We told you to just leave it.’
‘**** you!’

I returned to the kitchen and brought a sweeping brush and dust-pan for the broken glass and a pile of clothes (actually it was old clothes that I had decided to throw out while I was doing my packing).  Twenty minutes or so later I had cleared up the glass and wiped the wine from the marble floor tiles but there was nothing I could do about the mess on the wall.  I sat on my sofa fuming and wondering how I was going to explain that to my landlord and thinking about whether I should go out and buy paint and a paint brush to try and repaint that wall myself, which was really the last thing I wanted to be doing on top of all the other things I had to attend to before I could finally hand the house back and head back to the UK to see my brother.

I can’t remember how my friends got me speaking to them again after that little episode but needless to say they did.  I never tried throwing my stuff over my shoulder again though – you know what they say ‘If you want something done properly then do it yourself’

The following day I was carry on with doing my packing ‘the old fashioned way’ and I was chatting and joking with my friends at the same time.  At one point I picked up another bottle of red wine from the floor and prepared to wrap it in packing paper and put it into a cardboard box.  As I picked it up I said,

‘I’m keeping a tight grip on this one this time!’

My friends said,

‘Are you sure you’ve got a good tight grip on it?’

I knew I did have but suspecting that my friends were going to do something stupid like knocking it out of my hand I tightened my grip even more.

‘Sure I’m sure.  I’m not making that mistake again!’
‘Are you absolutely sure?’
‘You better not knock this out of my hand or I will be really p***ed off!’
‘We’re not going to knock it out of your hand but just look at it to make sure you’ve got a real tight grip’

I knew they were up to something but I had no idea what so I looked at the bottle and tightened my grip even more.  Right before my eyes I saw my fingers, which had been gripped tightly around the glass bottle, just slide right through/into the bottle.  It was as though the bottle became a mirage leaving my hand clutching at thin air!  The bottle was still where it had been but my hand had disappeared into it, and then – just like the kind of delayed action you get in the Roadrunner cartoons where the Coyote runs off the edge of a cliff and has time to look at the camera and hold up a sign saying ‘Yipes!’ before falling – I watched the bottle start to fall quite literally through my fingers before crashing to the floor and smashing once again!!!!  At least none of it seemed to have hit the wall this time but once again the whole floor was covered in broken glass and spilled red wine.

I went MENTAL at my ‘so-called friends and let loose a whole burst of nothing but expletives!

‘OK calm down Wee Man, we just had to show you that we could do that if we want to but this time please you just sit down and leave the cleaning up to us.’
‘You better do it right ****ing now then coz that wine is going to stain the grout beteen those tiles and it will never come out!’

I sat on my sofa and watched as the red wine seemed to just drain away down into the grout between the tiles…Actually that is a pretty crap description of what actually happened because it wasn’t just soaking down into the grout, there was obviously something weirder than that going on – Imagine one of those horror movies where blood starts to just seep and ooze out of the walls.  Now imagine that instead of doing that through the walls the blood was actually oozing up from the cracks between white marble floor tiles and then spreading out to cover an area of the floor about 6-8 feet in diameter.  Now play that whole image in reverse and that is basically what I saw that day.  The wine just oozed away down between the joints of the floor tiles and when the last of it was gone the grout between the tiles was left clean and white and the floor was completely dry and ‘unsticky’ (as it would have been if I had just mopped up the wine myself.

‘OK, that’s very clever but what about all the broken glass?’
‘Don’t worry about that we’ll clear that up later.’
‘**** that!  I’m in my bare feet here so if you don’t clear it up right now I’m going to have to put some shoes on and do it myself’
‘Don’t worry, the glass isn’t a problem to us’
‘I know it’s not a problem to you but it’s a problem to me so you better clean it up right now’
‘Don’t worry about it Wee Man, we’ll take care of the glass but we want you to come over to the TV just now and have a close look at this’
‘Aye sure I will!’

(Walking to the TV would have involved me in walking over about 10 feet of floor which was completely covered in chards of broken glass – Once again the bottle seemed to have almost exploded rather than just smashing so there was hardly a footprint sized area of the flor which didn’t have broken glass on it)

‘Forget the glass completely Wee Man, don’t even look at it, just come over to the TV and you can leave it to us to make sure you’re OK…You can trust us this time.’
‘Mmm OK I’m going to try this but NOT coz I trust you coz I wouldn’t trust you as far as I could throw you right now, but if I get so much as a tiny sliver of glass in my feet then that really is us done for good and I’m just going home to see my brother as soon as I can get this fikking mess cleaned up enough!’

I got up and walked to the TV in my bare feet without even looking at the glass on the floor…so far so good, my feet weren’t cut to shreds.  They started showing me something amazing on the screen (can’t remember specifically what it was now because they did that so many times) but pretty soon I had completely forgotten about the glass on the floor and I just wandered around in the room with my eyes fixed to the TV screen and not a thought about the risk of ripping the soles of my feet to shreds.  Maybe 15 minutes later I sat back down on the sofa and for the first time since I stood up I thought about the broken glass that had been on the floor.  I looked down expecting to see that they had somehow managed to make it all disappear while my eyes were fixed on the TV but it was all still there – It really didn’t make any sense because I had been walking all over that area for 15 minutes in my bare feet and hadn’t so much as scratched myself.

‘OK I want to go make a coffee now, will you still make sure I don’t cut my feet open here?’
‘Trust us.’
‘**** you!’

Despite my lack of complete trust I got up and walked over the glass-strewn floor to the kitchen and made a coffee.  I also decided that I wasn’t going to push my luck any further so I pulled on a pair of training shoes when I was in there but when I went back into the sitting-room with my coffee all the glass had disappeared.

‘There!  Are you happy now?’
‘Well I’m glad you cleared it up…But as far as I am concerned you b*****ds still owe me a bottle of wine!...Two in fact!’

OK, that was a long post so I will end it there but I hope it both answers your query and also shows a bit more of the relationship I had with ‘them’…In that example there I refer to ‘them’ as ‘my friends’, and I do actually think of them like that…but just like my real life circle of friends we had some fun trying to take the p*** out of each other (except in the case of ‘them’ and me it tended to be almost exclusively them taking the p*** out of me!).

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#23    julia52

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:39 PM

hiya scots

interesting posts..

and, since no one has asked i will do the honors :)

have you ever seen a ufo?  have you ever had unexplained lights come in or around you?

i won't go into the whole 'drill' but you do realize that many of your occurances smack  of et interaction?

the geometric designs, the electrical disturbances..the seemingly 'manipulated' things and occurances..just saying, entities are not usually that thorough

may i ask why you are listening to whatever it is talking at you?  you must realize whatever is contacting you may not be a good thing?  and might be just messing with you?

if i were you? i would look at different forums where there are topics like the 'personal alien and ufo experiences' and also topics like 'high strangeness'..i would want to find out as much info as i could(this is me personally now)before i came to a conclusion of what the source of these voices were

you call them your 'friends'..perhaps you and i have a different meaning of the word? none of my friends would try to mess with my head, my appliances, my life..just saying

please be cautious with the info you feel you are receiving..they are known to be consumate liars and like to 'get into the back door' so to speak, of many folks' heads..


#24    White Unicorn

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:28 AM

View Postscots_nomad, on 24 June 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Hi Ouija ouija :st (or can I call you Ouija for short? :yes: Actually when I spoke to them I was more interested in why they spoke to me at all rather than why they didnt speak earlier but the answer they gave to my question probably answers yours too:

When I asked them for the very first time why they were speaking to me they said something like,

“Because you were still paying enough attention and because your mind was still open enough to hear us.  You hadn’t already decided that you, or anyone else, already had all the answers but you also hadn’t decided that there wasn’t an answer, and you had enough faith in yourself to believe that if there was an answer out there you could be capable of understanding it.”
”Yeah maybe, but there must be loads of other people out there like that, so why me?”

“It was you that invited us to talk, we just answered your call.”
“Yeah, but I only did that once you made it absolutely obvious you were there and that you could hear me!”
“Exactly!  It wasn’t the just fact that you called out to us, coz we hear your people calling out to us all the time, whether they believe we are here or not, it was when you called out to us that made the difference.  You are the first person who has ever called out to us and actually expected a reply based on a logical process of elimination.  If you had called out to us yesterday or at any time during the last few weeks we would have to have ignored you, because we would have known that you were just guessing.  Similarly, if you hadn’t called out today we would maybe have given you one or two more chances because you were so close, but if you hadn’t called out by then then we would have had to give up on you and go try to find someone else to talk to, because you would have shown that you weren’t ready to face the truth.  As it was though, you called out at EXACTLY the right time.  You had ruled out every other possibility of what could be happening to you and worked out that we MUST be here.  Logic like that can’t go unanswered as far as we are concerned.”
“OK, I can kind of see that in a way, but I still only found you because you started picking on me a few weeks ago, so why me?”
”We try to contact all of your people all of the time, but there are strict rules about how we can go about that.”
”Rules?  Whose rules?”

“Ours!  We can only bring people towards us one step at a time – like a paper trail.  Your people have got to find each piece of the trail before we can put down the next.  Some people start off on the trail but soon get lost, others lose interest and start to look for other things, but most never really get started.  You managed to find all the stepping stones – even the real difficult slippy ones nearest the end.”

(That’s not exactly verbatim but it’s a fairly close version)


To be honest with you Ouija, before all this started with me I was a COMPLETE skeptic about EVERYTHING!  I believed in logic and science and nothing else.  I am not at all religious or superstitious and thought that anyone who claimed to have a paranormal experience was either mistaken or lying so if they had just talked to me without the slow gradual build up (which actually spread over weeks, getting stranger and stranger by the day) I would probably have checked myself in to the nearest hospital straight away for a check up :-)

Hope that sheds some light on your query, and thanks for taking the time to reply.

Whatever you chose to call these entities, et,  angels,  energy beings, etc they like guiding many people now  to discover all kinds of knowledge  in the some of the same kind of weird methods you described to make their points known.  I honestly think "whatever they really are"  want the sceptics with some scientific interests who are willing to  test things out for themselves, and learn different ways of communication.   I think if you don't take them at face value and test them to see if you can trust them, they actually have a higher respect for you then a blind believer and they laugh at the silly totally materialistic people.   I think this is where a lot of traditions come up with such words as  chosen, initiated, humble, worthy, truth seekers ...someone sceptic, but  open minded and a sincere desire to learn more about what they really are. It's scary to think about  what their motives are behind the communications and actions to instill a belief in you. There are good and bad ones out there and my only advise to anyone who gets any of these experiences personally is to judge them by their "fruit" as they say!  You must not loss all your sceptism  about  why they think it is important to reach out to you, bad ones  could lead you into too much trust and deceive you very easily after they proved their existence to you and the things that happen so mysteriously.

BTW the six shape spirals have lots of symbolism dealing with powers of manifestation in the physical universe...think of matter coming into being there is up, down, north, east, west and south and it spirals outward....a conscious thought that extends its being into the world that has free will and causes and effects.


#25    scots_nomad

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:05 PM

Hi Julia and Unicorn :st

Thanks for your concerns Julia but you don’t need to worry about me, I am comfortable enough with the situation.  So far you have heard only a tiny fraction of what is a very long and winding story with MANY twists and turns so it is easy to jump to assumptions but having been through it I feel safe enough.  I am not saying that because I think they are safe and harmless…on the contrary really coz I have seen what they could do if they had a mind to, and if they chose to make my life (or anyone’s life) a complete hell they could do so in sooooooooooooooo many ways so it is their restraint rather than any confidence in my ability to ‘handle them’ which makes me comfortable enough.

White Unicorn’s post was close to the mark in many ways – the last thing ‘my friends’ want is blind faith or gullibility – From day one of our chats they made it clear that they wanted me to learn for myself and make up my own mind about them.  As a consequence of that my understanding of who/what ‘they’ were evolved and changed almost on a daily basis so I can understand why people may jump to incorrect conclusions if they here only isolated parts of the story.  There was a time during our conversations where I really did believe this was ‘simply’ ET interaction as you (Julia) put it, and with hindsight I can see that they were happy to let me believe that for a while as it was all part of the process of opening my mind further and further.  I guess many people would now want me to say who or what I believe ‘they’ are now, but I am not going to do that because I can see that the way they ‘taught’ me was the best way to explain everything so I would prefer if everyone made up their own minds once they have heard the whole story (or at least enough of the whole story!  I have written many thousands of pages about my experiences already but still have a great deal of the story left to tell).

The longest journey starts with a single step as they say so for this post I am going to go back and tell you what happened immediately after they invited me to come out to my garden to talk for the very first time (i.e. immediately after the incident with my jumping DCs), but like I said above, try not to jump to any conclusions based only on the few posts you have seen so far…there were many twists and turns to come after this!

When they said ‘OK, let’s talk, but it would be easier if you come out to your garden’ I headed toward my front door…Well actually what they really said was:
‘OK, let’s talk but it would be easier if you came out to your garden…But bring a hat, it’s very bright out here…And maybe you should bring your beer with you…You might need it!’

So I picked up the bottle of beer I had been drinking and collected the baseball cap I wore when playing golf from the cupboard beside the door and was about to open my door and step outside but with my hand on the lever handle of the door I stopped and thought to myself ‘What the hell am I getting myself into here?’.  I thought about it for a few seconds and then thought ‘Well there is only one way to find out!’ so I opened the door with absolutely no idea what I would see when I did.

What I actually saw was nothing at all…Well nothing at all unusual anyway, just my garden, and the garden path leading down to the large double gates of my houses walled garden.  I walked down the four steps that led down to the garden path and looked around but still saw nothing unusual in any way, but then I heard the same voice that had invited me outside to talk and the conversation went like this (NB: their voice started in a totally accent-less monotone)

"HI"
"Hi"
"What's your name?"
"John"
"Are you scared John?"
“Should I be?”
“No, but are you?”
"Well, if you wanted to harm me I guess you could easily have done it by now."
"That's a good way to look at it, and we assure you that you have nothing to be scared of and that we don’t mean you any harm.  Where are you from John?"
"I’m from Glasgow, but live in Saigon, Vietnam"
"Glasgow where?"
"Glasgow, Scotland"
"Scotland where?"
"Are you taking the p***?"
"Scotland where?"

(NB: There was no change of stress or accent in their voice, they just repeated the question EXACTLY as they had said it before.)

"Scotland, Britain!"

(My accent did change - to my ‘OK, if you want to play silly buggers then I will play along until I understand things a bit better’ voice.)

"Britain where?"
"You are taking the p***!"
"Britain where?"
"****!  Britain Europe! Britain UK! Britain, Britain!!!  What do you mean ‘Britain where?’? How bad is you people's geography for **** sake?"

(NB: I assumed I was talking to an American at that point – Whatever was behind all the weird stuff that had been happening for weeks seemed to have huge resources and technology beyond my imagination so I figured it had to be someone like the CIA or some other ‘shady’ ultra-secret department like that!)

"We mean ‘Britain - which planet?’!"
"Oh ****!  I see where you are coming from……Sorry!”

I paused (actually I wandered around in my garden for what felt like an embarrassing amount of time unable to say or think anything other than ‘****ing hell!’ or ‘Oh for **** sake!’.  A couple of times I stopped and tried to compose myself a bit, each time I apologised for my very basic language and my total inability to put a coherent thought together, each time they told me that it was perfectly understandable and that I should take as much time as I felt I needed, and each time I said ‘Thanks’…before going back to wandering around my garden saying ‘Oh for ****ing hell!’).  Finally I felt that I had pulled myself together enough to proceed,

“Wow!  I think I better sit down for this one!"

I sat on the edge of the wooden poolside sun-lounger and then continued,

“Britain, Earth!  It's the third planet from a star we call the sun, or Sol, but I don't know what you might call it."
"We know where Earth is.  We knew roughly where you were, because from where we are 'pure logic shines out like a beacon in the night, but we still have to recalibrate our instruments to pin point you exactly.  We see a lot of background noise from up here.  We have got you in focus now.  So...how are you doing John?"…

Before anyone jumps to any premature assumptions here (either about me or about my friends) I feel I should add this second extract from my first book.  Prior to this bit of the conversations my friends and I had been talking about a few of my (real life) mates, and I had mentioned something about one of my friends who lives in Geneva.  A short time later they asked me,

…"So what was your friend's name?"
"Which one?"
"The one in Switzerland."
"Hey wait a minute!  I never mentioned Switzerland, I just said she lived in Geneva, so how come you know Geneva is in Switzerland but you didn't know where Scotland was?"
"Don't you ever take the p*** out of your mates for a laugh? Of course we know Scotland, in fact it’s one of our favourite places."
"You b****rds!  But I will let you off for what you said about Scotland!...Wait a minute!  Before I let you off.....Just how many 'favourite places' do you have exactly?"…

That was how our conversations began and that was why I initially assumed that I was talking to ‘an extra terrestrial’, but there were many twists and turns to come which showed me that things weren’t quite that simple.

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#26    scots_nomad

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

I mentioned in one of the above posts that as well as being mind-blowing, enlightening and all that stuff there was also a great deal of hilarity in our chats, so just to give me somewhere to start with 'specifics' I've decided to explain that bit. I'm going back to about halfway through our very first day chatting when they (I never know whether to call them he/she/it/or they so generally I will refer to them just as 'my friends) took me by surprise by asking:

"What language is that you are speaking John?"
"What?"
"What language is that you are speaking John?"

(They had a really annoying habit of repeating exactly what they had just said - but nothing more - whenever I replied to one of their questions by saying "What?". And when I say exactly, I mean with every tone exactly the same as before, just like they were rerunning a tape of themselves.)

"No! I mean, how can you ask that when I have been speaking it and you have been answering it for ages?"
"What language is that you are speaking John?"

(The annoying habit also applied when my response didn't actually answer the question they had asked! That was really annoying!)

"It's English! What language are you answering in?"

They completely ignored my counter-question and just continued with their line of enquiry,

"It's like English, but we know English and this is not it."
"Aww, I see what you mean! It is English, but I am speaking with a Scottish accent so it will sound different."
"No, it’s not that either. We know Scottish accents, but that is not it."
"It is! I have been living away from Scotland for a while, so my accent may have changed a bit but this is still a Scottish accent."
"Yes, we can hear the accent, but that is not it. Even when we take the accent out, it is still not English. What other language might it be? What language do you think in?"
"English! I think in English! Maybe I think in English with a Scottish accent, I don't know, but I know that it is English ‘cause that is the only language I speak."
"No, it’s not English."
"It ****ing is!"

(We had previously agreed that I should not bother filtering my language to remove swear words.)

"What language did you think in as a child?"
"English!"
"Ok, let's try another way. We have read all of the books in there in your living room. Which of them is written in the language closest to the language you used as a child?"
"Ahhhh! I think I see where you’re going. Let me look ‘cause I can't remember what books are there."

I started to walk toward the window into my living room and at the same time I tried to visualise the pile of books I had by my TV. There were about maybe a dozen or so, but I didn't have to think beyond the one that was on top of the pile. I stopped walking toward the window...

"The Big Yin's book! I mean..."

I was going to clarify that ‘The Big Yin’ was Billy Connolly but I didn't get a chance to utter another sound because a voice I recognised immediately replaced the previous monotone that I had been hearing for ten minutes or so...

"Awwwwwwww Rrrrrrrrrrrri-ite Wee Man! Now wur talkin’!"
"****ing hell!"

From then on they spoke to me with Billy Connolly's voice! And I don’t just mean they spoke like him or they spoke with his accent, for the rest of that day (and indeed for the rest of our conversations) it was just like I was talking and having a laugh with Billy Connolly himself. I guess most of you won’t know who Billy Connolly is but he's a comedian from Glasgow who is now based in Hollywood and does a bit of straight acting too but he happens to be my favourite comedian and also the funniest person I've ever seen - at times I laughed so much that I really did nearly wet myself! From that point onwards I have referred to it/them as either Big Yin or Big Man and they generally call me Wee Man, and even though I’m 6 feet tall it feels appropriate…

It’s hard to recreate the humour in all of it now because so much of it depended on their tone and their amazing comic timing but there was one bit of our first day’s chat that comes to mind which really had me in stitches.  I can’t remember off-hand what brought us to this point in the chat but this bit started when they said:
“…Anybody can see that you are 'no David' now, but maybe you'd be surprised at how well you could clean up with our help if you try!"
"Ya cheeky ba****ds!  Or is that another one of them 'sort-of-compliment' thingies?"
"Do you understand what we meant exactly?"
"Well these days people would probably say 'Well, I know I am no Brad Pitt', but I know who David is."
"We'll get to that, but first of all tell us who would say 'I know I'm no Brad Pitt' like that?"
"I suppose lots of people say it."
"But who specifically has said it to you?"
"Ahhhh!  You mean my mate Andy?  He said that very thing to me in a bar in Abu Dhabi after he told me a really funny true story about a couple of ugly, fat, dyed-blonde British women that we knew who began to think they were gorgeous because of all the attention they got in Abu Dhabi!  ****ing hell!  You people really have been following me around for a while!"
“Longer than you can possibly imagine, but just to refresh everyone’s memories could you tell us what Andy said?”
“Well another one of our mates was flying back to the Manchester for business and when he boarded the plane he saw a couple of those girls already on board.  He didn’t really know them but he had seen them around in a few of the bars and clubs we go to so he said ‘Hi’ but they just completely ignored him.  He just left it at that and sat down but when they arrived back in Manchester they were right behind him as they got off the plane so he waited until they set foot on the tarmac then turned around and said ‘Welcome back to Britain ladies….What does it feel like to be ugly again?’!”
"And do you remember exactly what you said when Andy said that?"

I burst out laughing - I was doing a lot of that 'that' day...some of the time!

"Yeah I remember, and I suppose that would have to go down as one of my top five 'Funniest Lines Ever'…How many's that now?  About twenty?"

"Aye it’s about twenty.  Twenty-three to be exact, but who’s counting!"
"Well you obviously are!"
"That's what we do, but never mind that for now, tell us what your line was."
"Well he had ended his story by saying something like ‘Don’t get me wrong, I know I’m no Brad Pitt myself, but…’ and I said something like "No, you’re certainly no Brad Pitt...well not unless you’re talking in Cockney rhyming slang!"

(They laughed, but they had obviously heard it before!)

"So do you know your 'no Brad Pitt'?"
"Yeah, I am definitely no Brad Pitt."
"What about David?"
"What about David?"
"What David do you think we mean?"
"I assume you mean Michelangelo’s 'David', the so-called perfect example of the male of the species."

(Applause)

"Why do you say 'so-called'?"
"Well, how can I put it?....Let's just say that if you're gonna make a statue of me then you are gonna need a bigger bit of marble!  Boom-boom!"
"OK.  Can you tell us exactly how much bigger?"
"p*** off!  Just make sure it's bigger!  I don't want you lot spoiling my reputation just to save yourselves a few bob on the cost of the marble."
"OK.  If you won't give us an exact size, can you at least give us a clue?  For example, would you say it had to be 'bigger by a long chalk', maybe?"

I was p***in' ma'self again by this point!

"**** off you lot!  In fact I've just have a better idea!  I want a ****ing fig leaf!  Boom-boom"
"Did you say a 'fig leaf' or a 'big leaf'?"
"**** off, you’re at it!  Just make sure I get a fig leaf!"
"So,...you don't want a big leaf then?"
"**** you!  Aye, I want a big fig leaf, and before you ask what size 'exactly', the size is 'big enough!'.  And if you don’t know what size that is up there then I feel sorry for you…Or actually I feel sorry for your women!  You’re the smart ones so just make sure you find out what ‘big enough’ means before you start my statue!"
"No problem Wee Man."

Maybe I was just imagining it, but there seemed to be an emphasis on the ‘Wee’ bit when they said ‘Wee Man’!
"Hey!  You cheeky ba****ds!  I'll get my lawyers on you next!"
"OK, ok!  'Big enough' - No problem!  We know what big enough means and we’ve got plenty that size up here, but we’ve still got a problem with you.”
“Why??  Big enough is big enough, so just make sure that it’s ****ing big enough!  What’s the problem with that?”
”Well…If the fig leaf has just got to be ‘big enough’…Does that mean that you want an elastic one?."
I was totally gone by that point!  I couldn't speak for laughing so I was desperately making the 'time-out' sign with my hands.

No matter how hard or how serious the conversation, having a laugh and a sense of humour can help get you through

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#27    scots_nomad

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

Attached File  TV spirals picture.jpg   28.84K   72 downloadsI just put the photo attached to this post up in the Gallery page of this site but decided to show it here together with an explanation:

Right back at the start of that period when my life to be becoming engulfed is a whole series of escalating bizarre events one of the first strange phenomena that I noticed was that at times certain shades of blue seemed to ‘look weird’ to me sometimes – sort of as if they were glowing by emitting their own light rather than merely reflecting it.

The weird thing I then noticed was that it wasn’t constant – some blue objects could look ordinary one minute then seem to glow and then later go back to looking ordinary.  I had no idea why that was but after a while I noticed that that ‘phenomenon’ always seemed to precede something weird or bizarre happening.  I never knew what to expect, but whenever I saw blue like that it seemed to be saying ‘Pay attention to everything because something weird is about to happen’

Anyway, one day I had MTV on in the background to get some music while I was messing around with something else.  At one point my TV lost the incoming signal and the screen went blue but when I looked at it I noticed that it was the glowing shade of blue I just mentioned (obviously the TV screen would have been glowing anyway but this just had that ‘extra dimension’ to it).  As an experiment I got my hand phone and took a photo of the TV screen because I wanted to see if that ‘extra blueness’ would show up in a photo, and if so whether the photo would remain the same even after whatever weird phenomena had passed.
Almost as soon as I took the photo the signal came back and MTV reappeared on screen but when I looked at the photo I had just taken, rather than being a plain blue screen (glowing blue or otherwise) the screen on the photo was covered with this really strange pattern of spirals (as I mentioned before, spirals seemed to come up very often both before and after the chats with my friends started).

I know that the lines of a TV screen  can cause interference patterns which create strange effects on TV (such as when someone wears a jacket with a check pattern on it) so I don’t know whether that was what happened with that photo but since that time I have tried taking photos of similar blue screens many times from many angles but every other photo I ever took just came out normal.

Edited by scots_nomad, 28 June 2013 - 07:47 PM.

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#28    scots_nomad

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:49 AM

I’m not sure whether anyone is still following this or whether I am just typing to myself here but I’ll explain a bit more about what happened during the very early stage of our chats.  This bit of the conversation actually took place before the post I made yesterday while they were still using their monotonic, accentless, emotionless voice:-

“So have you any idea what you have done John?”
“What I’ve done?  I’ve done nothing, I was just surviving.”
“Oh you have done something John!”
“What have I done?”
“You have just made a quantum leap.”
I raised my eyes brows and smiled when I heard that phrase,
“We see you smiling at that John, does that mean that you know what a quantum leap is?”
“Nooo, it wasn’t that!  It was just the word ‘quantum’ that made me smile as I had been beginning to think I had been caught up in some weird quantum theory something.”
“So you understand quantum theory?”
“Oh no!  I know a little bit about it but I certainly can’t say I understand it.  I’m not sure any one down here really does really but they know it works even if they aren’t really sure why.”
“So how do you know about it?”
“Mmm, maybe from old science fiction books I’ve read…No actually they wouldn’t really go into any kind of detail on it so I guess I probably picked up bits of it from watching Open University programs on TV.”
“You did an Open University course?”
“Nooo!  But when I was young I got into a habit of sleeping on the sofa in the living-room far more often than I slept in my bed and usually I would leave the television on.  Back in those days most television channels stopped about midnight or one o’clock in the morning so the only thing to watch were the Open University programs that used to be shown on BBC2 during the night.”
“So what age were you back in those days?”
“I don’t know, twelve?  Maybe thirteen?  I’m not really sure.”
“And you could understand university level quantum theory?”
“Well I can’t say I could understand it – I would only catch the odd program now and again so I didn’t see the whole course but I could generally follow whatever bit they were discussing…well in layman’s terms anyway.”
“That’s very impressive.”
“Meh, I was really just passing the time…So what is a quantum leap then?”
“Well most civilisations will make a leap of logic every century or so - It varies but that tends to be about the average.  That is what we mean by a quantum leap.  The thing is that usually quantum leaps only come about when a few great minds all work together to achieve it but you have managed to do it all on your own which is quite amazing.”
“Mmm, well like I said, I don’t feel I’ve really done anything coz all I was trying to do was survive.”
“You have certainly done something John, something big!  We are always watching out for quantum leaps and I can tell you that yours is the first one this year!”
“Oh.”
“You don’t seem very impressed by that.”
“Well, after the big build up you gave it I was expecting you to say something more than ‘this year’, I mean it’s only June so we are just talking about six months.”
“We are talking about at least six months John…In fact I have just had it confirmed to me that it is actually the first one this century!”
“Oh.”
“Oh?  You still don’t seem impressed about that John.”
“Well it sounds good when you say ‘this century’ but that is only four years so far…Maybe three depending on when you start counting from.”
“But we are talking about the first one this century in the whole of the universe!  Isn’t that impressive?”
“Mmm, well again it sounds good, but for all I know that is exactly the same thing as saying it’s the first one on Earth this century – Sure the universe is a big place but for all I know we are the only civilisation in it!”
“Ahh you are still thinking very logically John.  That’s good!  But take my word for it you have done something very impressive.  So impressive that our experts up here are still trying to work out exactly what you have done.  You see John, normally when a civilisation makes a quantum leap it moves up to the next layer of logic.  Very occasionally a civilisation can jump two logic levels in one leap however we KNOW that you have jumped at least five levels and possibly even as many as twenty-seven!”
“Wow, that does sound a bit impressive but I assure you it was just sheer luck.  I was just taking leaps in the dark most of the time just trying to find a way to survive.”
“No John, that’s not possible.  Sure there may have been some luck involved, which is why we are not yet sure exactly how many levels you have jumped.  We can tell you that you are on the twenty-seventh level just now but we know as a minimum you have leaped five levels based on pure logic and it is probably much more than that.  That is one thing we want to find out from talking to you today.”
“Well OK, but I still think it was all pure luck.”
“We are never wrong John.  Sure you could possibly find one stepping stone by pure luck but can you imagine what the odds would be of managing to cross twenty-seven stepping stones in a row with your eyes closed and with each stepping stone being in a different direction and with the distance between stepping stones increasing each time?”
“Well I don’t know what to tell you.  There were certainly a few times when I felt like I was making a huge leap of faith but to be honest I was only hoping that I would land on something solid.”
“Were you only hoping or were you expecting?”
“Mmm, well I wasn’t really just jumping blindly into the abyss.  I always had a reason for doing whatever I did, but at times it just seemed such a crazy reason that I really wasn’t sure where I would end up.”
“Thanks John, that is just the kind of information we wanted to know from you and I can tell you that you have definitely moved more than five levels on pure merit.”
“Hmm, OK.”
There was a short pause and then they said,
“Would you like to see what twenty-seven layers of logic looks like?”
‘What the **** does that mean?  Who knows, but it could be pretty crazy!’
“Yeah, why not?  So what do I do?”
“Just stand there, close your eyes and tell us what you see.”
“Close my eyes and tell you what I see?  I won’t see anything if I close my eyes!”
“Are you sure about that?”
“Well I suppose I’ll see the inside of my eye-lids…It you can actually see the inside of your eye-lids.”
“Are you sure about that?”
“Yeah, pretty much.”
“I wonder how we could verify if that is right.”
I laughed.  The voice may be completely emotionless but he was still a right sarcastic ba****d!
“I know!  Why don’t I close my eyes and see what I see?”
“Yes, that could work.”
I closed my eyes for about two seconds and then opened them again,
“I was right!  I saw nothing.”
“You saw absolutely nothing?  That shouldn’t be!”
“Well I saw the kind of ‘echo’ of the sun if you know what I mean – Like if you have been looking at the sky and you turn away you can still see a small glow in the darkness…It works with light-bulbs too.”
“Ahh!  That’s what you were supposed to see, but are you sure it was the echo of the sun?”
“Yeah, pretty sure.”
“I wonder how we could double check that?”
I thought to myself ‘Sarcastic ba****d!’
“OK I’ll shut my eyes and have another look shall I?”
“If you wouldn’t mind.”
I closed my eyes for another few seconds and had a better look at the glowing spot.  I opened my eyes again and said,
“Ahh  I see what you mean!  It isn’t just the echo from the sun it is kind of like an orb.”
“What do you mean ‘It’s like an orb’?”
“Well, do you know the round golden globe thing in the British crown jewels?  It was sort of like that.”
“Oh that’s not right.  It shouldn’t look like an orb and it certainly shouldn’t be golden.  Perhaps we have to adjust something here.”
“No, it wasn’t golden and it wasn’t exactly like an orb.  There was no wee cross on the top of it for a start and it looked more like iron than gold…Kind of like an old cannon-ball, and the bands around it weren’t covered in jewels, it looked more like old fashioned rivets…And the band running from top to bottom went all the way around whereas I think the band on the crown jewels’ orb only goes down to halfway.”
“Ahh!  Why didn’t you say that before?  That is exactly what you were supposed to see.  You know it really would help us if you would try to be a bit more accurate with your descriptions.”
I felt like a little boy being scolded by a matron,
“Sorry…but it is still kind of like an orb!”
I am pretty sure I heard a disdainful ‘tut!’ in the background but I couldn’t swear on it.
“OK, so close your eyes and look at the ‘orb thing’.”
I could tell by the way they said ‘orb thing’ that they were still not too impressed at my description.
“OK, I see it.”
“Can you see it clearly?”
“Yes.”
“Where is it?”
“It’s right in the centre of my view.”
“How big is it?”
“Huh?  You want me to measure it?”
“No, just give us an idea of how it looks to you.”
“Mmm…Maybe like looking at the Sun from Earth…Except it’s not up in the air…Not like looking at the Earth from the moon because it would be much bigger…maybe like looking at the earth from Mars, although I have no idea what that would be like…No wait, that’s dumb, it would be much smaller if I was that far away…Can I say like a tennis ball floating at about arms-length in front of me?”
“OK, that’s good enough, but it is good that you thought of it as looking at the Earth because that’s what it is.”
“No it’s not, it’s nothing like the Earth!”
“We mean that is what it represents!”
Hey if they were gonna be pedantic then why couldn’t I?
“That is the Earth bound inside its current layer of logic and you are looking down on it from the next logic layer out, OK?”
“Yeah, OK.”
“So that is where you would have jumped to if you had only jumped one logic level.  Are you ready to go to the next one?
“Yes.”
“OK, here goes.”
“Woahhh!”
This will be hard to describe but I will do my best:  The small orb representing the Earth rotated to my left by about ninety degrees, but at the same time the point at which I seemed to be looking at it from slid outwards and upwards and to my right at an angle of forty five degrees, so rather than looking at it directly in front of me as I had been before I was now looking down on it, from about twice as far away as I had been before and there seemed to be a thin translucent shell around ‘The Earth’ at about the distance I had been watching from originally.  The whole manoeuvre had been ‘accompanied’ by a dull metallic sound, kind of like very heavy steel doors sliding shut. The globe had swung left as I swung out and up and right and it all felt so real that I actually felt it in my stomach in a similar way to times when I have been watching film footage taken from a helicopter as it flies over the edge of a high cliff, except a little more ‘nauseating’ because of the simultaneous sideways movement.
“Are you OK?”
“Yes, but I wasn’t expecting that!”
“OK, we will move you out to logic level five now which was the minimum leap we knew you had made, OK?”
“OK”
I had expected the same kind of thing to happen but this time taking me much further ‘out’, however rather than completing the whole journey in one go they ‘slid’ me from one level to the next to the next.  At each step the small globe in the centre had swivelled in a different direction – Sometimes downward, sometimes to the left, sometimes to the right and sometimes upward, but always by ninety degrees, and at each of those movements my point of view had also slid around in a different direction which was always more or less opposite and away from the direction that the small ‘orb’ had rotated, each time accompanied by the same sound of those heavy steel gates slamming closed…It was actually quite disorientating!
“Woahhh!  Are you trying to make me sick?”
“Are you going to be sick?  We can stop if you are?”
“No, I’m OK but maybe you could have warned me what to expect?”
“How?”
“Good point!  OK, I think I’m OK with it now anyway.”
“Good!  So that is you looking down from the fifth logic level.  How does that look now?”
By that point I could see no definition in the central orb at all, it was just a small lump giving off a slightly bluish-white glow surrounded by four translucent shells which also seemed to emit a slightly less intense bluish-white glow.
“It looks pretty far!”
“Yes, it was a big leap.  So Now we are going to take you out to the twenty-seventh logic level, are you ready for this?”
“As ready as I will ever be I guess.”
My whole world seemed to start twisting and turning and sliding and rotating time after time after time.  Sometimes I would be looking directly down on the quickly disappearing orb, sometimes I would be side on, sometimes looking from a forty-five degree angle either upwards or downwards and at other times I was looking from directly underneath.  It really felt as though my body was actually sliding between all those vantage points, upwards, downwards or laterally, but always outward at the same time.
I heard myself say,
“Stop!  I really think I am going to be sick here!”
“It’s OK, you are at the twenty-seventh level already.  So what do you think?”
From that final vantage point the small globe at the centre of it all had completely disappeared, or at least it had become so small that it was impossible to differentiate it from the numerous luminous spheres which surrounded it in ever more densely packed shells.
I took a while to respond to their question.  In fact it wasn’t really a response at all, more of thought which was spoken aloud,
“I suddenly feel a long, long way from home!”
They didn’t reply.
“Can I open my eyes now?”
“Yes you can open them anytime you want to.”
I opened them right away.
“I think I need to sit down now, I think I almost just got sea-sick on dry land!”
I almost collapsed back down onto the sun-lounger and they left me in silence while I tried to re-coordinate myself with the world around me.

A collection of facts is no more 'Knowledge' than a pile of stones is a house.

#29    VvROMULUSvV

VvROMULUSvV

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:23 PM

Okay scots_nomad, I've been reading your thread with interest from the beginning but as I digest each of your posts... something is becoming a little 'not quite right' about it all. You set your preamble early on that you were not concerned whether people took your accounts at face value (i.e. 'believe') but that's often nothing more than the old 'trust me' line.

You mentioned in your first or second post about your desire to write a book and I feel you've given away more than you think from this statement. Here are my observations that have become increasingly more obvious to me the more I read.

1. The amount of character dialogue you are presenting is increasing. No one could remember such detailed conversations at a near verbatim level years after they occur.

2. Your 'friends' as you call them have gained more and more of a personality the more you write. It's as if you are in character development here. Also, I love Billy Connolly too..but really? Remember when the Alien in the "Flight of the Navigator" scanned David's mind and suddenly had cool voice to make him less threatening? Yeah well...

3. I remember reading Anne Rice's novel 'Memnoch' in my final year of High School. Absolutely loved that book. 95% of it is just the Devil and Lestat having a continuous dialogue, where the Devil reveals all to Lestat, all the secrets of the Universe and God. Very much in a verbally volley like your characters. Antagonistic at times, forthcoming at other times.

4. I feel like you're using the UM site as a kind of lab rat, to see if you can actually come across believable and worthy to a demographic most likely to buy your future books.

I actually feel no animosity towards you, I think you'll make a great Fiction writer, but please be upfront with the members of this site. It does not feel at all like you're writing from experience but more so from an imagination. A lot of people here take these things very seriously ( I do too in general) and if you look at something like Whitely Strieber's "Communion", these kinds of occurrences (when real) are more likely to be filled with psychological anguish and suffering rather than a humorous and almost whimsical tale such as you have presented.

In essence - I call shenanigans big time on this one (and I'm not even a good sceptic!)


#30    ouija ouija

ouija ouija

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostVvROMULUSvV, on 29 June 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Okay scots_nomad, I've been reading your thread with interest from the beginning but as I digest each of your posts... something is becoming a little 'not quite right' about it all. You set your preamble early on that you were not concerned whether people took your accounts at face value (i.e. 'believe') but that's often nothing more than the old 'trust me' line.

You mentioned in your first or second post about your desire to write a book and I feel you've given away more than you think from this statement. Here are my observations that have become increasingly more obvious to me the more I read.

1. The amount of character dialogue you are presenting is increasing. No one could remember such detailed conversations at a near verbatim level years after they occur.

2. Your 'friends' as you call them have gained more and more of a personality the more you write. It's as if you are in character development here. Also, I love Billy Connolly too..but really? Remember when the Alien in the "Flight of the Navigator" scanned David's mind and suddenly had cool voice to make him less threatening? Yeah well...

3. I remember reading Anne Rice's novel 'Memnoch' in my final year of High School. Absolutely loved that book. 95% of it is just the Devil and Lestat having a continuous dialogue, where the Devil reveals all to Lestat, all the secrets of the Universe and God. Very much in a verbally volley like your characters. Antagonistic at times, forthcoming at other times.

4. I feel like you're using the UM site as a kind of lab rat, to see if you can actually come across believable and worthy to a demographic most likely to buy your future books.

I actually feel no animosity towards you, I think you'll make a great Fiction writer, but please be upfront with the members of this site. It does not feel at all like you're writing from experience but more so from an imagination. A lot of people here take these things very seriously ( I do too in general) and if you look at something like Whitely Strieber's "Communion", these kinds of occurrences (when real) are more likely to be filled with psychological anguish and suffering rather than a humorous and almost whimsical tale such as you have presented.

In essence - I call shenanigans big time on this one (and I'm not even a good sceptic!)
I agree with you, which is why I 'stepped out' of this thread a little while back.

Life is all too much ............................................. and not enough.

It is only when you form your question precisely and accurately that you receive the true answer.




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