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DOMA & Gay Marriage


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#31    Kowalski

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 27 June 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:


I asked a very simple question and that was "why is there a difference"?


There isn't. If you support, homosexual marriage, and say people should be able to marry whomever they choose, then you should also support polygamy. If you ask me, it is not the domain of the government to define what "marriage" is.


#32    Capt Amerika

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:42 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 26 June 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

One thing missing though is *consenting adults* so it's not just about love.  Marriage *IS* a contract.  And I don't object to polygamy but I think it should be common sense that determines how far it goes.  Why not have one woman and two men married?  Perhaps the wealthier you are, the more spouses you can maintain (it's good to be the king).  But 1 man and 12 women or 5 men and 9 women?  Really?

Thank you for making a simple statement regarding polygamy, that is all i was asking about myself but it seems it was more in fashion to just spew hatred towards me and my question when i posed it.
I was just trying to figure out where the line is to be drawn when it comes to marriage and equal rights.
but all i got was hate and intolerance.  peoples true colors tend to shine through in moments like this.


#33    Capt Amerika

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 26 June 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Still confused by what you're communicating, you're sounding redundant.

I saw this as a huge gain in freedom, freedom from the religious bigots that are still prevalent in our societies.  Freedom from a dogma that was developed over 1700 years ago (one that the people who try and uphold know little about).

Just because a prejudice is backed by a mainstream religion, doesn't make it less prejudice.  Just because a bigot has a mainstream religion behind him, doesn't make him less of a bigot.

So let me get this straight....
I, who have never taken ANY action against a homosexual or treated someone different because of their sexuality am a bigot be cause i dont agree with the act of homosexuality.
I, a person who doesnt attend any religious forum at all and doesnt identify as religious am automatically bound by religious dogma just because i dont agree with homosexuality.
I have accepted that homosexuals exist and quite frankly i dont care.  (and here i thought that was me showing tolerance)
But as it turns out, according to you, i am a bigot because i don't agree with the same thing you do.

If i am an intolerant bigot and you are a hero for your treatment of others - I guess i dont know what to think anymore, because i find your inability to accept the simple fact that not everyone is going to agree with homosexuality as quite intolerant.
Maybe this would be a good time for you to do some personal reflection exercises.


#34    Capt Amerika

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:06 PM

View PostEnderOTD, on 26 June 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Nice rant, but I think you missed the point of his post, he was just asking why trumpeting gay marriage is held as moral but the same people might consider polygamy immoral.  Whether his questioning is legitimate or not is another question in and of itself.  Personally from what I can tell the same people who fight against gay marriage are the same people that have a problem with polygamy, because it isn't defined as marriage in their interpretation of what ever holy book they believe.  But I agree with you, the fact that government is even involved in such civil liberties is a complete waste of time, energy, and tax dollars.  If Americans could just drop the bigotry and realize that majority has no say in individual rights of minority groups, and class everyone as equals, with no one group having more or less rights than any other, this country could actually solve real problems.

You are spot on.
My post had absolutely nothing to do with my views on the morality of gay marriage.
It was only meant to raise the question of how far will the line be pushed.
I added the reynolds case in particular because it was the case that used morality as a reason to deny polygamy and if morality was what was stopping gay marriage it seemed like a logical question.
Unfortunately not all people such as yourself actually read the post and comprehend the question, some jump straight on the offensive and go nuts.


#35    shadowhive

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 27 June 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

You can "wish" i didnt pose the question but i did.
If you dont have an answer that's fine but dont waste a paragraph lecturing me on my personal opinion.
I asked a very simple question and that was "why is there a difference"?
You may not like the question but it is relevant now.
Since Morality is no longer a reason for denying anyone who wants to marry, why should polygamy not be allowed?

I only don't 'wish' people pose the question because, to me, they're two seperate issues and I don't get why polygamy gets bought up time and again.

I thouht I had made a clearer comment about polygamy, but it seems my computer or the site cut it off and I didn't realise to now, so.

To answer your question about polygamy is that I think it should be legal. As long as all parties involved consent I don't see an issue with it at all and don't see any moral objection that holds any real weight. In terms of marriage the only important thing should be that all parties should be consentual.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
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#36    Capt Amerika

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 27 June 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

I only don't 'wish' people pose the question because, to me, they're two seperate issues and I don't get why polygamy gets bought up time and again.

I thouht I had made a clearer comment about polygamy, but it seems my computer or the site cut it off and I didn't realise to now, so.

To answer your question about polygamy is that I think it should be legal. As long as all parties involved consent I don't see an issue with it at all and don't see any moral objection that holds any real weight. In terms of marriage the only important thing should be that all parties should be consentual.
Good solid answer.
I would have to agree that if gay marriage is okay polygamy would also have to be approved.
I would be interested though in seeing if anyone agrees with gay marriage yet disagrees with polygamy and what the reason would be.


#37    Walter White

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:52 PM

Polygamy is just greedy, only problem I have with it.

I can't even get one wife yet I'm supposed to be happy with you having two?  No dice!!

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#38    RavenHawk

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:58 PM

There is a stigma with polygamy.  In recent memory, it is just *those* Mormons that practiced it.  Therefore there must be something shadowy about it.  But the Mormons practiced it because it was Biblical.  And even then, I think the Mormons may have got it wrong.  I don’t think that the rank and file in Biblical times practiced polygamy.  It was a privilege of wealth and position.  Kings, Patriarchs, and men of wealth had many wives.  And Polygamy may not really have anything to do with homosexuality, but in today’s world, they are tied together whether that is correct or not.  As far as homosexuality in the Bible being referred to as “an aberration”, or “immoral”, or ”unnatural”, or “an abomination”, it really was never defined.  But Paul is the one that tied the act with such terms.  Back in the day, homosexuality was indeed “an abomination” because it was against GOD’s law, not because the act was unnatural (which it was natural).  But that law was perhaps the first law on the books.  And that was to be fruitful and multiply.  It’s all about procreation.  Well, in today’s world of 7 billion, don’t you think that law is an abomination?  Do we really need to be any more fruitful?  I keep saying this, but this law is but 1 law of 613 established in the Bible and over half do not apply to Gentiles.  How many are not followed at all?  If we break one law, then we break the entire covenant.  Or do we?  What has changed?

Edited by RavenHawk, 27 June 2013 - 03:51 PM.

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#39    green_dude777

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:27 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 27 June 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Do you see what you did right there?
You showed a great deal of intolerance for my right to not agree with homosexuality.
I dont treat anyone different, i would be friends with a homosexual if i knew any.  that doesnt mean i have to agree with their actions.
I dont agree with Democrats but it doesnt mean i want them to all die and go away....
Once again, i posed a simple question that had nothing to do with my stance on gay marriage and you failed to even address the ONLY purpose of my post.
My ONLY question was "Why should polygamists not be granted the same rights as homosexuals to marry who they want"?

But thanks for taking the time to show intolerance towards my personal views.

See post #22, when someone else said the same thing.  I did answer, and to sum up the recap, they should.  I clearly said the government, or anyone for that matter, shouldn't be involved in others business if they aren't doing any harm.

I think polygamists should be allowed to marry, just like gay people, or transgender people, or a person and their sheep, or a person and their car.  If someone isn't bothering me or anyone else, they should be free to do as they will.

I think that makes it a little more clear.  :tu:


#40    green_dude777

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 27 June 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

So let me get this straight....
I, who have never taken ANY action against a homosexual or treated someone different because of their sexuality am a bigot be cause i dont agree with the act of homosexuality.
I, a person who doesnt attend any religious forum at all and doesnt identify as religious am automatically bound by religious dogma just because i dont agree with homosexuality.
I have accepted that homosexuals exist and quite frankly i dont care.  (and here i thought that was me showing tolerance)
But as it turns out, according to you, i am a bigot because i don't agree with the same thing you do.

If i am an intolerant bigot and you are a hero for your treatment of others - I guess i dont know what to think anymore, because i find your inability to accept the simple fact that not everyone is going to agree with homosexuality as quite intolerant.
Maybe this would be a good time for you to do some personal reflection exercises.

Your words buddy.  That quote you have there wasn't even a reply to you.  I named no one in that post, so if you're classifying yourself as a religious bigot, more power to you. I also never claimed to be a hero, and never would I.  (especially considering that word is thrown around way too often, but that's another topic)

With the way you're questioning reading comprehension by some, you really missed this one "For the record, I don't think any government should be involved in any marriage or union between people.  I don't think the government or others should even feel they have the right to tell someone they can't do something because of their 'moral standards'.... If someone isn't hurting anyone else, don't worry about it." That literally is the third sentence of my first reply.  Just because it wasn't as short as you like, or worded how you wanted, doesn't mean I didn't answer your question.

Edited by green_dude777, 27 June 2013 - 04:37 PM.


#41    green_dude777

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 27 June 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Good solid answer.
I would have to agree that if gay marriage is okay polygamy would also have to be approved.
I would be interested though in seeing if anyone agrees with gay marriage yet disagrees with polygamy and what the reason would be.

The reason most likely would be hypocrisy.  I'm guessing there are some that disagree out of jealousy (I'm looking at you Walter White), and some will have some reason about the greater good being hurt by a group of people being married to each other.


#42    questionmark

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 27 June 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

The reason most likely would be hypocrisy.  I'm guessing there are some that disagree out of jealousy (I'm looking at you Walter White), and some will have some reason about the greater good being hurt by a group of people being married to each other.

It is more about the anachronistic thinking that the next should not have more than you, and certainly not more fun or happiness.

If you look at many puritan laws it is all about that: a total enmity towards fun.

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#43    Jeremiah65

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

As a selfish, freedom loving libertarian...my take is...why should I care?

It does not effect my marriage or my family.  It's like the Lewis Black routine...what's going to happen?  Bands of gay people are going to break into your house and force you to watch them have sex?...seriously...from a freedom and liberty loving philosophy...I give a resounding..."Who cares?"

You can marry who or whatever you want...marry your mailbox...marry your "personhood" corporation...makes not a shiz to me.

That being said...I do expect certain standards of public morality to be adhered to.  I do not want to see a man and a woman dressed provocatively and fondling each other in public and I don't want to see it from the LGBT community either.  It's called public decency and as long as that is upheld...then what two consenting people...or whatever...do in the privacy of their bedroom is absolutely no concern of mine...or anyone else for that matter.

Want to get religious about it?  The issue...like abortion... in my opinion,  is between these people and whatever God they pray to...not my choice and none of my concern...period.  If you believe this is a terrible sin...then take solace that one day they will have to face God for it...but it is their soul...not yours.  "If a man be ignorant, let him be ignorant"...

Edit to add:
I can agree with some folks position that the GOV should not be involved in civil unions...however...I understand why that is.  It comes down to allocation of assets in death or divorce and in order to do that, there had to be a "law" to define this "civil union" in such times...just an afterthought.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 27 June 2013 - 05:40 PM.

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#44    WhyDontYouBeliEveMe

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

I think you all should move to japan . There you can marry anything and anyone you want, even your own pillow :D


#45    Capt Amerika

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostWhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 27 June 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

I think you all should move to japan . There you can marry anything and anyone you want, even your own pillow :D
Can i marry as many pillows as i choose?  :)
btw...the reason Polygamy doesnt catch on as a popular arrangement is the additional mother in-laws.





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