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DOMA ruled unconstitutional


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#196    danielost

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:32 AM

View Postninjadude, on 04 July 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:



The constitution does.

No it doesn't

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#197    shadowhive

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:43 AM

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

There are no marriage rights in the constatution.  Because the founding fathers left to the religon.  The states sw a way to make money so they started selling marriage licenses.  But they still recognize non ceramony karriages.  We call themh legal unions.
The laws giving the so called rights to be gay and marry your gay lover is the only rea laws for marriage on the books.  Maybe a few states have had to make multy raciaul marriage legal.

This gay right is the latest attack on marriage and the traditional marriage and family. China did their attack on families by outlawing brothers and sisters.

Reconising other unions and families is not an 'attack' on anything. The attitude that it is... is just crazy. Hetrosexual marriages will not be effected by equal marriages in the slightest so how exactly is it an attack? I do want an explanation for how it is, because I have yet to hear one just people crying out it's an attack without actually offering a how or why.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
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#198    HerNibs

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 04 July 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

I thought it was up to the Supreme Court?

Before an issue reaches them, it is up Congress.

My point is that any legal, tax paying, american citizen should share the same rights as any other legal, tax paying, american citizen.  

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#199    HerNibs

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

There are no marriage rights in the constatution.  Because the founding fathers left to the religon.  The states sw a way to make money so they started selling marriage licenses.  But they still recognize non ceramony karriages.  We call themh legal unions.
The laws giving the so called rights to be gay and marry your gay lover is the only rea laws for marriage on the books.  Maybe a few states have had to make multy raciaul marriage legal.

This gay right is the latest attack on marriage and the traditional marriage and family. China did their attack on families by outlawing brothers and sisters.

There is right to equal liberty.  Amendment 5.  http://documents.lat...overturns-doma/

Let me introduce you to the 14th Amendment -


Quote

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.[1]


Now, regarding marriage laws - lots and lots on the books.  Can't marry more than one person.  Can't marry sister/brother/mother/father.  Can't force someone to marry.  Can't marry children.  How property is divided or held.  Medical decision abilities.  And on and on...

Sure, the state makes money on marriage licenses, just like the church does for the religious ceremony.  So?

The state issued marriage license is what matters in this discussion.  It is a CONTRACT.  Not a vow before a deity.  A CONTRACT.  Legal and binding.  Requiring formal legal processes to break.  It is a contract that is recognized state to state as binding.

A couple may be "married" by a church or religious group, unless a state issued contract/license is issued IT IS NOT A LEGAL MARRIAGE.  It is basically a vow of commitment that holds no legal binding unless a state recognizes common law marriages.  Even in those cases THE LEGAL PROCESS MUST GET INVOLVED AT SOME POINT.

So it is really two different discussions - religious idea of marriage (not being challenged) and the legal contract of marriage (being challenged).

A couple that has only had a religious ceremony and no state recognized contract cannot make medical decisions for each other unless they go to court to obtain that right and provide evidence of common law marriage.

And NO, you do not forfeit any rights by others obtaining equal footing.  If your neighbor dies, do you get extra rights?  NO.

Nibs

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#200    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:34 PM

The Chinese one-child policy was born of a serious fear of famine.  It is I think regrettable but understandable.


#201    ninjadude

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

There are no marriage rights in the constatution.

No. This is in YOUR response previously. It had nothing to do with gay marriage. You are intolerant. Clearly do not understand the constitution.

Quote



Quote

So.... Are gays actually Accepted Equally in society now?
Daniel says:
No, a court order or a law cannot make that happen.


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#202    danielost

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:29 PM

And what is wrong with what posted.

To prove me wrong.  You will have to post the section in the coinstitution about marriage and where a married person has more rights than a single person.  Not a law in the constitution.

Then tell me of any law that made something accepted in sociaty when it was passed.

If you can't apolijise to me.  Say your sorry.

It has been fifty give or take years.  Since the government has passed civil right laws, and there are still people out there who do not except blacks in our society.  I do, I don't even see skin color.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#203    danielost

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:34 PM

Her nibs where in your post does it talk about mariage or married people.  The statement all citzens covoers both married and single.



Those marriage laws talked about are drawn from christian taboos on marriage. It was these laws that kept utah from becoming a state, until the mormons stopped the practice of plural marriage.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#204    danielost

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:36 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 July 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

The Chinese one-child policy was born of a serious fear of famine.  It is I think regrettable but understandable.

And it makes it harder to speak against the government.  No family to watch suffer or murdered to upset the populice.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#205    danielost

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:39 PM

Life liberty or property.  Didn't see the word marriage in there.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#206    Thanato

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:39 PM

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

There are no marriage rights in the constatution.  Because the founding fathers left to the religon.  The states sw a way to make money so they started selling marriage licenses.  But they still recognize non ceramony karriages.  We call themh legal unions.
The laws giving the so called rights to be gay and marry your gay lover is the only rea laws for marriage on the books.  Maybe a few states have had to make multy raciaul marriage legal.

This gay right is the latest attack on marriage and the traditional marriage and family. China did their attack on families by outlawing brothers and sisters.

Daniel if you want traditional Marriage. Then you want the ability to sell your daughter to a family for either more land, more power, or some sort of resource. That is traditional Marriage

Marriage is not religious. There is a much richer tradition for non religious marriages in this world then their are religious.

Now I have this question for you. How is having two men or two women married an attack on the institution of marriage and family? Give me a real answer with facts please.

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#207    Br Cornelius

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

Quote

Now I have this question for you. How is having two men or two women married an attack on the institution of marriage and family? Give me a real answer with facts please.

That question has been asked about four times now, we can safely assume that Danial cannot justify his faith based belief or he would have done so. Thats the problem with faith, it needs no justification other than itself. To prefer tradition over facts is the cancer at the core of religious belief.

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#208    rashore

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

There are no marriage rights in the constatution.  Because the founding fathers left to the religon.  The states sw a way to make money so they started selling marriage licenses.  But they still recognize non ceramony karriages.  We call themh legal unions.
The laws giving the so called rights to be gay and marry your gay lover is the only rea laws for marriage on the books.  Maybe a few states have had to make multy raciaul marriage legal.

This gay right is the latest attack on marriage and the traditional marriage and family. China did their attack on families by outlawing brothers and sisters.

I think heterosexuals have already done a fine job in messing with the notion of traditional marriage and family.. divorce, living in sin, commonlaw marriage, children out of wedlock, children being used as pawns between parents that are not together, marriages in vegas that only last hours, celebrity marriages for the sake of popularity, civil unions, adoption and foster care of children instead of having your own children, having multiple marriages... Not much there for the "gay right" to attack anymore. Besides, not much of an attack since they want to join forces with the straight folks, not oppose them.

And most straight folks don't participate in "traditional" marriage anyway. Women weren't sold off by their fathers, or forced to marry their rapists, or the guy who won the battle... Most folks don't participate in polygamy or accept having concubines either.

And lots of laws about marriage on the books beyond a few states and interracial marriage. Though some states never had laws on the books about interracial marriage, a lot did. And quite a few of those states repealed before 1967 when the supreme court overturned the rest. There are a lot of other marriage laws on the books too, some of which are still standing, some not. There has even been federal law about marriage- DOMA being rather notable, especially since it's the original topic of this thread.


#209    danielost

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

View PostHerNibs, on 05 July 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:



My point is that any legal, tax paying, american citizen should share the same rights as any other legal, tax paying, american citizen.  

Nibs

Your right.  But now in several states gays have the right to be married.  None gays don't not in the law books.  There are laws regulating marriages but only gays have a right to marry., in those states.

And utah has laws against plurel marriage.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#210    danielost

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:45 AM

Rashore I agree that the most destructive against normal marriage and families are straight people.  Maybe I should say none gays.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.




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