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Mind over Matter


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#1    QuiteContrary

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:28 PM

Wasn't sure where to post this thread if it needs to be moved.

Anyway, this may seem an odd question from a skeptic, but I know how meditation can have a profound effect on calming an anxious mind and lowering blood pressure.

Anyone have any information on the mind's power to heal more serious "stuff"?

I am also looking for any recommendations for  "middle of the road" books on  the topic.

I won't be debating anyone, as I am genuinely interested in exploring this more, even being skeptical.

Thanks

Edited by QuiteContrary, 26 June 2013 - 08:31 PM.

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#2    FlyingAngel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

Yes, placebo pill is an example. The mind is a powerful thing.


#3    QuiteContrary

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:56 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 26 June 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Yes, placebo pill is an example. The mind is a powerful thing.

That it is.

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#4    White Unicorn

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:38 AM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 26 June 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Wasn't sure where to post this thread if it needs to be moved.

Anyway, this may seem an odd question from a skeptic, but I know how meditation can have a profound effect on calming an anxious mind and lowering blood pressure.

Anyone have any information on the mind's power to heal more serious "stuff"?

I am also looking for any recommendations for  "middle of the road" books on  the topic.

I won't be debating anyone, as I am genuinely interested in exploring this more, even being skeptical.

Thanks

Just a thought to give you. It's not really mind "over" matter!

A key to successful meditation is that the consciousness will only has effects when it becomes one with the matter.  You can believe and think of your arm moving and visualize it moving but it won't really happen unless the arm is one with you and you just simply move it because you KNOW it is part of you!

There's a big difference between imagination, visualization and really influencing any type of effects in matter.  A lot of visualization meditators focusing on healing fail to understand that simple concept and fail.


#5    B Randomly

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:41 AM

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=248335

Here is a thread from a little while ago that touches on this(mind over matter)... not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but definitely touches on a couple medical things.


#6    QuiteContrary

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:41 AM

View PostB Randomly, on 27 June 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=248335

Here is a thread from a little while ago that touches on this(mind over matter)... not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but definitely touches on a couple medical things.

Yes, thank you. Interesting article.

What do monks or yogi's die from? Do they experience disease? That is what I am interested in, like the man with cancer in the article.

And the weight loss one I found very interesting.

I've read about controlling breathing and blood pressure and know it can even be dangerous. But I'd like to hear more on disease, either life-threatening or chronic.
I do understand that depression and loneliness and a pessimistic attitude can be detrimental to any health condition, but I'm interested in beyond that.

Is it a matter of somehow feeling "power" over a condition that helps generate the body to heal? Rather than giving in or giving up which can be so detrimental?
Or, is there not enough empirical evidence to support the body curing incurable disease? Sorry for the last sentence as I didn't want to make a debate out of this.

I understand all about seeking higher power to heal, but I'm not looking for that path either.

Any book suggestions?

Edited by QuiteContrary, 27 June 2013 - 02:48 AM.

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#7    QuiteContrary

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:50 AM

View PostWhite Unicorn, on 27 June 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

Just a thought to give you. It's not really mind "over" matter!

A key to successful meditation is that the consciousness will only has effects when it becomes one with the matter.  You can believe and think of your arm moving and visualize it moving but it won't really happen unless the arm is one with you and you just simply move it because you KNOW it is part of you!

There's a big difference between imagination, visualization and really influencing any type of effects in matter.  A lot of visualization meditators focusing on healing fail to understand that simple concept and fail.

Any books or references on "better" or correct or productive visualization meditation.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 27 June 2013 - 02:51 AM.

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#8    John from Lowell

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 27 June 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Any books or references on "better" or correct or productive visualization meditation.

HI,

There are way too many to mention. However the one that came to my mind was this.
http://www.amazon.co...04615994&sr=8-1
and this
http://www.brucelipton.com/

I hope they help you.
John

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#9    Threewhens

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:52 PM

I forgot what this experiment was called, I saw it a documentary once: two groups of patients needed to have surgery on their knees due to arthritis. One group got the surgery, but for the other group, the doctors just cut open and closed the knee, but didn't do any actual surgery.
Afterward, both groups reported that the problem with their knees had been fixed.

I'm not sure if meditation can heal anything serious, but it seems like when one has a very strong belief that their problem has been cured by medical intervention (even when it really wasn't), the mind has a way of making the body play along.


#10    QuiteContrary

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostJohn from Lowell, on 27 June 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

HI,

There are way too many to mention. However the one that came to my mind was this.
http://www.amazon.co...04615994&sr=8-1
and this
http://www.brucelipton.com/

I hope they help you.
John

Thanks!

PS I checked them out and found another, put three on order.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 27 June 2013 - 08:05 PM.

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#11    White Unicorn

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 27 June 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Any books or references on "better" or correct or productive visualization meditation.

I'm sorry I don't really have any books to recommend.  IMO there are  no "correct" methods of visualization since it's very individualized.

Biofeedback research  is good start if you are looking for control over your body, some of them actually give you ways to test results. You must have some way to know if you are getting physical control over your own body to know what works for you. Like one simple way, is  experimenting with a heart beat and blood pressure monitor. They have more expensive devices that monitors brain waves that the researchers use, but it's really not necessary to go that far.  However you have to somehow measure real effects at first,  then you KNOW when it's working for you because you can see your results and realize what was "different" about your meditations when you achieved results.

Buddahist monks are well known masters of this and alternate states of consciousness, but you have to read too many books if you're trying to do it without a teacher. You don't have to be of the Buddist  tradition to master alternate states of consciousness. Consciousness is the key to mastering visualizations, it's a state where you are in complete attunement with your subconscious which controls the body. You have to get to that state where your conscious and subconscious work together and communicate. Subconscious communicates more in images and symbols that is why people use that to meditate, but you  have to add that something else that is actually your "conscious will" to connect to the imagery in order to manifest, you can actually "feel"  that connection when it happens. You need to learn to recognize that feeling of consciousness to learn control it. Once you do you don't need a "job aid" anymore.  Your subconscious can communicate with you and let you know what you need to change so it can do it's job better too....like if you are lacking something it needs or getting poisoned by something in your enviroment,  it will let you know once you understand how to communicate with it!

No one book, philosophy or master can really teach it. It comes with time and meditation within yourself. You can only learn by doing and seek tips from others who have mastered a certain aspect that you are seeking.  They will not ask for money, try sell a book or their personal beliefs but try to help you learn :)





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