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Ecuador refuses US aid; offers $23 m instead


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#16    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:35 PM

View Postpallidin, on 27 June 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

I have mixed feelings about Ecuador.

One one hand I respect that they are a potential "haven"
Indeed, it's nice to know that one might have a place to go if the political s**t hits the fan regarding one's actions.

On the other hand, I don't like their criteria for it, as they seem to allow non-extraditable residency to certain criminal types.
If approved, of course.

Snowden, for example, has been charged with espionage and has a demand placed on him to stand trial in the US.
Importantly, no-one disagree's that Snowden stole state secrets. Which is a serious crime in any country.

And, no-one disagree's that he revealed those state secrets to third parties. Also a serious crime in any country.

If one has access to, and a "beef" about state secrets, in the US there are numerous safegaurds for him to "whistleblow" without retribution.
That precious availabilty does not exist in many countries outside the US.
Many other countries just, well, kill you.

As such, in reality, he should have stayed here, "lawyerd-up" and asked for trial to present his case to the public and Congress.

But he choose not to do so, either out of paranoia or some other mental agenda, and instead fled and now it's presumed the Chinese and Russian intelligence services have all his stolen NSA data, some of which he may or may not have desired to make public.
I think he clearly wants to make a martyr of himself. And what better way than by going into Exile, like Trotsky? And of course, if the US does try to put any kind of pressure on plucky little Ecuador, they'll be the Great Bully once again.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#17    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:44 PM

Well one thing is certain. It is Ecuador's president who is trying to turn this into more Snowden-driven-drama and not our president.

What a few congresspersons state is not the official government view and never has been.

While America can be a bully toward our Latin American neighbors, more so in the past, the legacy is there and Ecuador and Venezuela certainly capitalize on it as a play for their own domestic audience. Meanwhile they still wheel and deal with us and business continues as usual.

When it comes to Venezuela they have Citgos all over some parts of our country.  Chavez also gave heating aid to low income Americans at one point in time after our domestic budget slashed LIHEAP funds (with respect to questionmarks' comments of, "Now they should start a collection for CARE packages for US food stamp recipients and we would have seen it all.")

So while they play up the production to their home audience both our countries are also in bed together to some degree. Those ties that bind us are more important than the present wedge the Snowden affair is causing between us. Don't see any long term ramifications. This is our American version of saber rattling which could be dubbed "oil stick dipping". Yep, we might need an oil change when it comes to foreign policy with Latin America because we are certainly losing influence and instead of trying to gain it back or make them out to be enemies we need to strengthen our partnerships with them as equals.

Edited by The world needs you, 27 June 2013 - 08:02 PM.


#18    F3SS

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:41 PM

I kind of admire their gusto in a way. Maybe Snowden and Ecuador will set a trend. Whistleblowers will pop up like daisies, other nations will offer asylum, we will pis those countries off, they will retract our foreign aid and the icing on the cake is that they will even pay us back a little money. What an incredible turn of events. We will save billions and make millions all the while knowing the dirty little secrets our government keeps. Win win win.

Edited by F3SS, 27 June 2013 - 08:41 PM.


#19    F3SS

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:18 AM

Uh oh! What's this? A growing trend? I'll take it. I know it's just the people and not the government but...

Quote

‘OH AMERICA, KEEP YOUR MONEY!’: EGYPTIAN DEMONSTRATORS CALL PRESIDENT MORSI A ‘DOG’ AND THE U.S. ‘ACCURSED’

http://www.theblaze....e-u-s-accursed/



#20    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:48 AM

well good.
America gets some extra cash in pocket to pay their debts.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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#21    Wickian

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

I would like nothing more than to see the U.S. become less involved with how other countries run themselves.


#22    Raptor Witness

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

It's nice to see that all roads don't lead to Rome II.

God Bless Ecuador ... for their bravery. They're poor, but they have great dignity.

It also sounds like a place that might survive the firestorm that is coming.

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#23    xFelix

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 27 June 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Well one thing is certain. It is Ecuador's president who is trying to turn this into more Snowden-driven-drama and not our president.

How did you get that from those articles? Ecuador simply said if you want something you ask for it, you don't threaten us... I actually support them standing up to our government because they have been doing this crap forever now, all they do is threaten other countries, they never actually consider doing stuff the peaceful way.

Even what they call diplomacy pretty much goes like this:
"If you don't give us what we want, we will do x"

As opposed to:
"We want Y, what can we do to get Y from you"

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#24    Babe Ruth

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:02 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 27 June 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

I rather like their sense of humour.
They definitely seemto want to take over from Venezuela as the S. American country that does its best to annoy Uncle Sam.

I rather like the courage displayed by Ecuador.  David & Goliath image. :tu:


#25    xFelix

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:58 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 June 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I rather like the courage displayed by Ecuador.  David & Goliath image. :tu:

I don't know about David and Goliath, but I am pretty sure if our government tried to declare on Ecuador they'd be in a for the fight of their lives, cause they'd finally be fighting a war by themselves. The government is doing a great job of making enemies, and an even better job of linking them together. Why be afraid of a country, when you know you have other countries supporting you? You might not have been following South American issues because the media tends to focus on what we are doing in places around the world, but South America has been growing some strong ties amongst themselves. The US wont do squat but bark and blackmail the UN to do something. We've already seen this course of action before, it's called Cuba. Just 90 freaking miles off the coast and here's this real jerk of a guy publicly mocking, insulting, and challenging the President, meanwhile all the President did was run and blackmail the UN to impose an embargo. Yeah let's starve the citizens he's holding hostage, that'll hurt him real bad. If he tries that with Ecuador, the most he would get is South America really ticked off. We can say it's an unfair fight, assuring ourselves of how great the US is, but we haven't seen the other side to that coin.

We only have a fighting force of about 3 million troops.. One single South American country could completely dwarf our troops if it came to it. I won't even begin to mention the unity they've all been working towards recently, and other countries agreeing with them that our diplomacy is garbage... Not to mention the ones already in the US... What then? Stale mate? All I see is "Cool story.. Now show some respect Mr.President, you must not remember your place is North America, and we aren't North America". Even though South America isn't as rich, they are still the big brother of the Americas, not the other way around.

Edited by xFelix, 28 June 2013 - 04:01 PM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#26    Raptor Witness

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:54 AM

I think I'm going become an ambassador for their products in the U.S.

Here's what we currently buy from them:

Ecuador was the United States= 35th largest supplier of goods imports in 2011.
U.S. goods imports from Ecuador totaled $9.6 billion in 2011, a 29.1% increase ($2.2 billion) from 2010, and up 335% from 2000.
The five largest import categories in 2011 were: Mineral Fuel (crude) ($7.5 billion), Fish and Seafood (shrimp and prawns) ($673 million), Edible Fruit and Nuts (bananas, plantains) ($511 million), cocoa ($247 million), and Live Trees and Plants (cut flowers-roses) ($149 million).
U.S. imports of agricultural products from Ecuador totaled $1.1 billion in 2011. Leading categories include: bananas and plantains ($465 million), cocoa beans ($235 million), and nursery products (cut flowers) ($149 million)

Edited by Raptor Witness, 29 June 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#27    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:05 AM

So if Ecuador boycotts the U.S., there might be a shortage of Fish and Seafood (shrimp and prawns), Edible Fruit and Nuts (bananas, plantains), cocoa, and Live Trees and Plants?! The foul b******* holding the US to ransom like this!!

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.





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