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Meet a Muslim Person


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#16    Zaphod222

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:43 AM

I would like to ask those 3 nice muslim outreach guys if they think Shariah should replace the law of the land.
Because about 50% of young British muslim want exactly that -- I don´t think the figure is much different in other countries.

Even Yamato might get a rude awakening from his dreamy wishful thinking, if he asked the right questions.

Edited by Zaphod222, 28 June 2013 - 07:43 AM.

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#17    mysticwerewolf

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:14 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 28 June 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Will I get to keep my head?

I  guess I will allow that ....
I am sure that there are nice people out there( I hope your one of them) of that faith  but as I said I have only met one that was human ( he treated others with respect when they were not doing the same.  he  followed the same rules that Most of the rest of us, he Didn't scream and yell and assault someone then Try to yell discrimination.  I know that I should not judge others By religion, ( or any one of a dozen reasons)  And my apologies to those who don't fit the stereotype in the story but this dislike runs deep.
I've had an assistant manager of that faith  push me against a wall ( mild concussion resulted) because I  asked him to tone it down while I was on the phone with a client, ( he and another male  of that persuasion were arguing in my ear... literally inches away )I thought I was polite but...)_  I knew someone ( female whom I was NOT interested  at the time) marry  someone of the faith we are talking about who although he promised she did not have to change faiths get beaten weekly because she refused to...eventually she just vanished.   I had one stick a metal knife point up in my drivers seat..(  he admitted it "you really should lock your doors Scott someone might just put a knife in your car seat. ) I woud have casterated myself if I had not first looked the car over  as I always did/do. I tried to be nice and when that didn't work I ignored him up until the knife incidence   I had someone of the persuasion walk up the street ( I suspect he was a cleric because of how he was dressed ) and stare into the house until I stepped outside and asked if something was wrong, he picked up a large stone and threw it at me missing me by inches but Breaking the 4' X 6' Plate glass window behind me, had a friend die in an airplane crash caused  by a group of the faith. and the list goes on. I was even threatened once by a coworker that he been in Mogadishu and knew how to use a gun, but ran when I told him so did I and I tend to carry it most everywhere ( had a license at the time and  Did not carry it at work but he didn't know that.) There are  a couple more stories. That I am not going to go into because of the anger I still experience  when I think of them.

Edited by mysticwerewolf, 28 June 2013 - 08:22 AM.


#18    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:20 AM

This video receives the PA seal of approval. Most people in the video were equally approving. It's unfortunate that the guy at the end spoiled  it. Sadder still, we're two posts into page 2, and two or three posters here could conceivably slot into the role of the last guy in the video. Though being the internet, they'd probably simply walk by and not say anything to them in real life.

I've lived with Muslims my entire life. There's a large migrant population in my area and I went to school sitting in classeswhere almost every single period there'd be two or three hijab's, and an equal number of Middle Eastern men. I worked at a job that has Muslim workers. I've taught at a school where only 15 of 400 students turned up on the Muslim festival of Eid (the rest were with families celebrating the end of Ramadan).

I can say I've only rarely met the evil Muslim. The rest represent the true face of Islam. I won't but into the hatred and accuse true Islam of bring violent and extremist.

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#19    Zaphod222

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:17 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 28 June 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

I can say I've only rarely met the evil Muslim. The rest represent the true face of Islam. I won't but into the hatred and accuse true Islam of bring violent and extremist.

How do you define the "true face of islam"? I would say the "true face of islam" is the content of the islamic teachings; the Koran, the Sunna, and the Haddith. And that, is virulent to the extreme.

By your logic, simply arguing that the majority of the believers are harmless, you would also have to argue that Nazism is a harmless ideology. Do you?

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#20    libstaK

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:27 AM

View Poststop yield, on 28 June 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

I've met some very hostile Iranian muslims. Some muslims tried to kill my mom and a Jewish friend. You'd have different view if it happened to you.
Yes, toward a hostile regardless of the colour of their skin or religious beliefs I would have a different view, I don't want to believe I would look at everyone who followed the same belief as an enemy though.  I would prefer to judge each person I meet on their own merits.

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#21    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:31 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 28 June 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

By your logic, simply arguing that the majority of the believers are harmless, you would also have to argue that Nazism is a harmless ideology. Do you?

Here is a quick video, of a few buddies that speak about how nice of a guy their friend really was...



He wasn't that bad really?  Just a little hic up in Boston, a few killed and so many injured, but hey he was a nice guy...right?..Of course he was to those who knew him.

I am not saying we should judge all the same way. ..  But, it goes to show you, sometimes we think we know someone and BAM shock hits us and can leave us dumbfounded. This is my point and the point of the video... People can get a shock..I have seen people over here react in shock because they found one of their neighbours was an actual IRA man..They said their neighbour was one of the nicest people they have met, do anything to help you, this news of him being a member of the IRA really left them dumbfounded..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 28 June 2013 - 10:46 AM.

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#22    xFelix

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

While I agree with the facts that you presented, that he was thought to be nice and then turned out to be the complete opposite.. I have to point something out to you and everyone else in this thread...

Everyone has that same capacity. Christians, Nazi's, everyone from every walk of life. Sitting here judging an entire religion based on some people's capacity to look nice while really being a threat is well, irrational. We all have bad apples, and we demand we don't be judged by our bad apples, but here we are judging others by their bad apples.

Look at our prisons, how many serial killers are devout Christians? How many murderers and such? Everyone has bad apples.

Edited by xFelix, 28 June 2013 - 12:27 PM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#23    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 28 June 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:



How do you define the "true face of islam"? I would say the "true face of islam" is the content of the islamic teachings; the Koran, the Sunna, and the Haddith. And that, is virulent to the extreme.

By your logic, simply arguing that the majority of the believers are harmless, you would also have to argue that Nazism is a harmless ideology. Do you?
I'm referring to their teachings. I am of the view that the violent teachings of the Qu'ran are about wars, and only extremists believe they are "at war" with the West and/or Christianity. As such, unless Muslims are at war they cannot use the warlike passages of the Qu'ran to support their view. The Bible also has passages that can be used to justify violence, but the extremists who do so are equally wrong as the Muslim extremists.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 28 June 2013 - 12:58 PM.

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#24    redhen

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

View Poststop yield, on 28 June 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

You're not alone. I have some horrible experiences with their male ego. It's not racism or discrimination as long as it's true.


Not hard to figure out where this misogynist tendency comes from, here's a valid description of a Muslim paradise.



I think you can disregard the poster's comments about race, I suspect these virgins were not even human but celestial beings. Perhaps I'm wrong.


#25    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostxFelix, on 28 June 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

While I agree with the facts that you presented, that he was thought to be nice and then turned out to be the complete opposite.. I have to point something out to you and everyone else in this thread...

Everyone has that same capacity. Christians, Nazi's, everyone from every walk of life. Sitting here judging an entire religion based on some people's capacity to look nice while really being a threat is well, irrational. We all have bad apples, and we demand we don't be judged by our bad apples, but here we are judging others by their bad apples.

Look at our prisons, how many serial killers are devout Christians? How many murderers and such? Everyone has bad apples.

Who ever said it doesn't apply to everyone?  My post and the main point of it all was - It can be anyone. The video posted is just used as a more recent example of how so many guys felt shocked at the friend they felt was a good guy and then something happens and it leaves them dumbfounded

I laid out another example of neighbours feeling the same shock towards a friend / neighbour they knew so well..  Was I singling out my own people when I used the Irish man who turned out to be IRA, that left his friends and neighbours in shock...this was not another example?   Listing one or two examples ( like I did ) does not in anyway single people out..  They are just examples and nothing more.

Quote

Sitting here judging an entire religion based on some people's capacity to look nice while really being a threat is well, irrational

Who here is judging the ENTIRE religion?  Please by all means, show me where you have seen someone judging the ENTIRE religion, I may have missed it..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 28 June 2013 - 01:37 PM.

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#26    and then

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 28 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

I'm referring to their teachings. I am of the view that the violent teachings of the Qu'ran are about wars, and only extremists believe they are "at war" with the West and/or Christianity. As such, unless Muslims are at war they cannot use the warlike passages of the Qu'ran to support their view. The Bible also has passages that can be used to justify violence, but the extremists who do so are equally wrong as the Muslim extremists.
PA they seem to think they ARE in  a war.  I realize it's pointless to argue it with someone who has decided to look for only the best in their faith.  But this conflict is having real consequences and they will only worsen with time.  I hope you never have to see a tragedy in your own life to realize why I feel the way I do.

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#27    RavenHawk

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

I like the op clip, but is it a lie?  At the end of the clip, it states a quote that says something about not judging a person by their religion, but by whatís in their heart.  That is true, but Islam implants its doctrine into the heart.  What three friendly faces do on the sidewalk does not change that doctrine.  If I was invited into a Muslim home to share a meal, I would feel right at home.  The hospitality would be very generous.  Beyond that, the doctrine takes over.  It didnít show if anyone asked the questions I would have asked.  The same questions I ask here and get excuses and dodges from.  I would love to ask those three the same questions.  Iíll guarantee you that after a little time, they wonít know the answers because they donít know their own faith or they will get very aggressive because I am cutting too close to the quick of their comfort zone.

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#28    RavenHawk

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:28 PM

View Postredhen, on 28 June 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Not hard to figure out where this misogynist tendency comes from, here's a valid description of a Muslim paradise.

I think you can disregard the poster's comments about race, I suspect these virgins were not even human but celestial beings. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Man, if this guy was here, heíd be shunned faster than Marv Albert or Paula Deen.

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#29    Zaphod222

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 28 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Who here is judging the ENTIRE religion?  Please by all means, show me where you have seen someone judging the ENTIRE religion, I may have missed it..

Well, I for one, am judging the "entire religion". In the same way that I judge the "entire ideology" of Nazism, and the "entire ideology" of communism. Because these are thought systems that can and should be judged.

Note that that is not the same as judging every single person that nominally belongs to these thought systems.

I think we really need to clarify the terms here.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#30    Zaphod222

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 28 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

I'm referring to their teachings. I am of the view that the violent teachings of the Qu'ran are about wars, and only extremists believe they are "at war" with the West and/or Christianity. As such, unless Muslims are at war they cannot use the warlike passages of the Qu'ran to support their view. The Bible also has passages that can be used to justify violence, but the extremists who do so are equally wrong as the Muslim extremists.

And who are you to lecture muslims about their interpretation of the Koran? You are a non-muslim and have zero credibility.

Note that the leading muslim scholars, both Sunni and Shia, do indeed argue that there can be no peace with the non-muslim world ("dar al harb") until they have submitted under islam.
And your relativism with the bible underlines this point. To its credit, Christianity has had its age of enlightenment, and christian churches do indeed NOT take the old Testamentarian passages as orders from God. Islam, on the other hand does.

Now, if and when you become a respected muslim scholar on par with Yussuf Al Qaradafi, and you take him on on equal terms, you can pontificate about what your real islam is.

But until then, all you do is spout your own wishful thinking.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)




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