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Hundreds of Thousands protest in Egypt


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#76    Corp

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

Thing is Devil this topic is about the protests in Egypt, started by Egyptians, against a leader they selected in a generally open election, with the Egyptian military stepping in to take charge. And what are people doing? b****ing about Obama. Now the US has done a lot of dirty things in the international scene. Most countries do. And often their involvement comes back to bite them and it would be far wiser if the US took a huge step back from the whole region. But from what I can tell anyway this is a completely Egyptian situation. Obama isn't trying to get Morsi to stay in power, he's not arming anyway, and the Egyptians seem able to form opinions on their own without the US telling them what to think. So bringing up Obama in this thread reeks of political bias and general bitterness.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#77    Yamato

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:30 PM

Who doesn't have political bias?  There isn't a person alive on this earth, so what's wrong with reeking for what you are?

The policy reeks of the welfare state and foreign interventionism.   Railing against Obama for what he says is a basically meaningless and politically safe way to stick one's partisan dog in the fight without disturbing the bipartisan policy that's been ongoing for decades now and I use the word safe because focusing on rhetoric doesn't broach the money on the taxpayers' dole to subsidize Egypt and....wait for it.... Israel.   *gasp!*   Because as everyone knows, suggesting that we reassess our unconstitutional foreign policy is tantamount to antisemitism wherever Israel is concerned.   It also puts one in bed with radical-Islamists if I base the real reaction to such thinking on the actual replies I've received here.

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#78    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:05 PM

View PostCorp, on 04 July 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Thing is Devil this topic is about the protests in Egypt, started by Egyptians, against a leader they selected in a generally open election, with the Egyptian military stepping in to take charge. And what are people doing? b****ing about Obama. Now the US has done a lot of dirty things in the international scene. Most countries do. And often their involvement comes back to bite them and it would be far wiser if the US took a huge step back from the whole region. But from what I can tell anyway this is a completely Egyptian situation. Obama isn't trying to get Morsi to stay in power, he's not arming anyway, and the Egyptians seem able to form opinions on their own without the US telling them what to think. So bringing up Obama in this thread reeks of political bias and general bitterness.


Not bitterness, but rather anger and disappointment. When the ambassador of US remains silent or fails to clearly condemn the repressive policies of Mursi, the torture and murder of protestors even on the grounds of the presidential palace, yet tries to force the opposition to participate in cosmetic talks to improve Mursi's image; when she fails to mention any of the causes of the people's anger but cant stop herself from telling them to 'sit down and shut up' :  
"Some say that street action will produce better results than elections. To be honest, my government and I are deeply skeptical," Patterson said at a seminar in Cairo. "Egypt needs stability to get its economic house in order, and more violence on the streets will do little more than add new names to the lists of martyrs." it is reasonable to expect that her remarks will anger many people. Obama's policy has been questioned also in Washington.  http://thecable.fore...people_in_egypt
Mme. Ambassador has the tact of a tornado in a china shop!

  
As for the position of the administration towards the ouster of Mursi, someone should remind them of the following:


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness… That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed… That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”   From the 1776 Declaration of Independence









































































  


#79    Merc14

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:05 PM

Kerry was on his boat all day but don't worry, he phoned it in.
http://www.cbsnews.c...-dept-concedes/

If Condie Rice had played this game the lefties here would be screaming bloody murder.

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#80    Zaphod222

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:02 PM

View PostCorp, on 04 July 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Thing is Devil this topic is about the protests in Egypt, started by Egyptians, against a leader they selected in a generally open election, with the Egyptian military stepping in to take charge. And what are people doing? b****ing about Obama. Now the US has done a lot of dirty things in the international scene. Most countries do. And often their involvement comes back to bite them and it would be far wiser if the US took a huge step back from the whole region. But from what I can tell anyway this is a completely Egyptian situation. Obama isn't trying to get Morsi to stay in power, he's not arming anyway, and the Egyptians seem able to form opinions on their own without the US telling them what to think. So bringing up Obama in this thread reeks of political bias and general bitterness.

Err... no. Obama threw Mubarak under the bus, and helped Morsi. And now he is meddling in Egyptian politics to help the Muslim Brothers remain strong. The current US admin is involved in this up their ears with their Muslim Brotherhood support.

That might lost on you, but it is not lost on the Egyptians.

Edited by Zaphod222, 06 July 2013 - 04:03 PM.

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#81    Yamato

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:58 PM

Throw his Swiss bank accounts under the bus too while we're at it.  :angry:

The first most obvious way to not support the Muslim Brotherhood would be to stop extorting billions of dollars from the US taxpayer and handing it to them.  

And somehow I'm the Islamist.  Da Derp Dee Derp Da Teetley Derpee

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#82    docyabut2

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:20 AM

It does remind me of our revolution where people want to be free of dictatorship  tyranny and all though we all love our beliefs, freedom of religous domination,where all people are equal in a state.Its make one want to fight with them.


#83    spud the mackem

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:07 AM

Civilians v Army, no contest the civilians must know they are going to be killed or injured, so why do they do it...There are other ways of protesting rather than facing a line of trained Military....Why do the middle east countries have to run around the streets every time they protest,they are not going to win,but they ALL do it,time after time..Perhaps they've never hears of general strikes, Nobody goes to work which is a silent protest,the agressors (Gov't), would start taking notice very quickly,and get around the peace talk table.Then the civilians would have a chance of winning.The radical trouble makers sit back and watch people get killed but they dont get involved.

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(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#84    Zaphod222

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 07 July 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Civilians v Army, no contest the civilians must know they are going to be killed or injured, so why do they do it...

Because they are fighting a jihad. When islamists get killed fighting for their god, they go straight to heaven. Don´t tell us you did not know that?

Here is a video of Morsi suporters, one of them carrying an Al-Quaeda flag, murdering two opponents of Morsi:

http://www.youtube.c...&v=96uKI-QowFM#

Nice guys all around. Note that Obama still insists that the Muslim Brotherhood must be included in the new government. He never made such a claim for supporters of the secular Mubarak.

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#85    Zaphod222

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:18 AM

View PostYamato, on 06 July 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Throw his Swiss bank accounts under the bus too while we're at it.  :angry:

The first most obvious way to not support the Muslim Brotherhood would be to stop extorting billions of dollars from the US taxpayer and handing it to them.  

And somehow I'm the Islamist.  Da Derp Dee Derp Da Teetley Derpee

Maybe you are not. But when the topic is Israel, you always parrot all the islamist talking points. Hook, line, and sinker.

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#86    third_eye

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 07 July 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Maybe you are not. But when the topic is Israel, you always parrot all the islamist talking points. Hook, line, and sinker.

at the same table to do the very same ... just from the opposite point of view ... and quite rabidly too I might add ...

No ?

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#87    Yamato

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 07 July 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Maybe you are not. But when the topic is Israel, you always parrot all the islamist talking points. Hook, line, and sinker.
Well let's see, they're extorting money from me to oppress Palestinians.  I think they should extort money from Japanese taxpayers like you.  Then you can sit there and take it and not complain about it for fear of people like me accusing you of being "Islamist".   Why can't you understand the principle?   It's simple beyond count.   Respect civil liberties universally for all.  Live your life free by spending your own resources how you want to spend them.  Problem with that?  What's the hairy problem?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#88    Yamato

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:06 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 07 July 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

at the same table to do the very same ... just from the opposite point of view ... and quite rabidly too I might add ...

No ?

~
Doesn't make any difference to me whether Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, Pagans, Pink, Purple, Blue or Orange.   Not strongly opposing the most heinous violations of civil liberties on this earth for ridiculously lame political reasons is his game.  And because Israel happens to do it to Muslims, a sheer matter of incidence has led him into repeatedly making claims about me personally, particularly assaulting my religious beliefs.   It's not my religious beliefs that find his anti-Muslim views so putrid, it's my love of liberty.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#89    Black Red Devil

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostYamato, on 07 July 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well let's see, they're extorting money from me to oppress Palestinians.  I think they should extort money from Japanese taxpayers like you.  Then you can sit there and take it and not complain about it for fear of people like me accusing you of being "Islamist".   Why can't you understand the principle?   It's simple beyond count.   Respect civil liberties universally for all.  Live your life free by spending your own resources how you want to spend them.  Problem with that?  What's the hairy problem?

Couldn't agree more.  The common denominator is "oppression" and countries that support Govts who oppress others (whether or not they're from the same gender, religion, color, creed) are just as responsible as the oppressors.

Edited by Black Red Devil, 07 July 2013 - 11:38 AM.

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#90    spud the mackem

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 07 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Because they are fighting a jihad. When islamists get killed fighting for their god, they go straight to heaven. Don´t tell us you did not know that?

Here is a video of Morsi suporters, one of them carrying an Al-Quaeda flag, murdering two opponents of Morsi:

http://www.youtube.c...&v=96uKI-QowFM#

Nice guys all around. Note that Obama still insists that the Muslim Brotherhood must be included in the new government. He never made such a claim for supporters of the secular Mubarak.
  Yep I know Jihad,the problem is that every time there is a dispute,off they go shouting Jihad,but why does Religeon come into it ?,because Murderers don't go anywhere but Hell. (I wont watch a video of a real life issue of someone being Murdered).

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win




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