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Chronological order of the bible


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#91    Mr Walker

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

View Postfullywired, on 10 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Truly amazing!!!! :w00t:

fullywired
Naa! fairly typical for a boy growing up where and when I did.

  Some of my school mates went on to do truly amazing things like flying one of the  the last  aircraft into saigon in the vietnam war to evacute  australian personel while dodging sams, along the only narrow air corridor available, then retiring to smuggle bibles into russia and the soviet union.

Or getting out of iran about 3 hours before the borders were closed and the revolution  began, or having everything stolen  by armed bandits while travelling on a train in india and walking into the embassy in a loin cloth. Or establishing the english language school at the univeristy in brunei for the sultan of brunei He asked the sultan what the budget was, and the sultan replied "What do you mean budget? just buy everything you need and hire the best staff you can get".,

Or setting up the chinese equivalent of our satellite television network. Or teaching at chinese and japanese schools for most of your life. Even my nephews doctorate in nuclear molecular biology is more amazing. Oh and one boy and one girl from my class of about 20 high school graduates went on to be well known australian actors and television/ film stars.

Edited by Mr Walker, 11 July 2013 - 01:02 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#92    Mr Walker

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 10 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Walter Cassels ("Supernatural Religion," available online) has written six chapters on the relationship of miracles to the Bible.  In essence, Christianity cannot survive without miracles because a lack of them would mean that whatever knowledge is laid out in the Bible is accessible to rational thought - and that is not a miracle.

If you are going to claim that "miracles" are the product of an advanced technology, then science would require you to present some evidence supporting the conclusion that such a technology actually exists (or has existed).  Your beliefs have been arrived at through "faith" and may be valid for you, but because they can't be verified by impartial observation, have no validity outside of yourself.  We all have beliefs that we arrived at through "faith" (even us "scientists") that are valid only to us.  This is an important issue whether we believe in god or not - because god is in your mind does not imply that you are in god's mind.
Doug

No it takes other evidence to know that you are in god's mind lol.

I dont have beliefs. I have assumptions and potentials based on  demonstrated physical realities. I am not saying that, when an "angel" or entityl manifests physically in front of me, and is visible for a long distance around me to others, that this IS a hologram or a being arriving by transmat. Just that I have those alternatives scientifically  available to me, when someone from 2000 years ago did not Miracles predate christinity just as god predates christianity. God and miracle are just human words for certain things. Neither is the "right" or most descriptively accurate word, and many other words have been used and are still used, to describe them.

ps of course all the words/knowledge  in the bible is/are accessible to rational thought. They were written by humans, and thus every word and every concept is available to all other humans,  because our minds all function the same. Read the bible and your mind comes to understand the knowledge, words and concepts, stored in the minds of people from 4000 to 2000 years ago. You can do the same for ancient sumerian and babylonian egyptian or chinese writing.

Edited by Mr Walker, 11 July 2013 - 01:14 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#93    Doug1o29

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

View PostJor-el, on 10 July 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

My friend, the parties are long dead in one case and the other has been publicized all over the world but happened over 30 years ago, I think everyone who is interested in the subject has already formed an opinion...
So what have the professional journals said about these cases?  You probably can't find actual scientific articles on all of them, but at least some should have been examined by genuine experts.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#94    Doug1o29

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:16 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 11 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

No it takes other evidence to know that you are in god's mind lol.

I dont have beliefs. I have assumptions and potentials based on  demonstrated physical realities. I am not saying that, when an "angel" or entityl manifests physically in front of me, and is visible for a long distance around me to others, that this IS a hologram or a being arriving by transmat. Just that I have those alternatives scientifically  available to me, when someone from 2000 years ago did not Miracles predate christinity just as god predates christianity. God and miracle are just human words for certain things. Neither is the "right" or most descriptively accurate word, and many other words have been used and are still used, to describe them.
Some Quakers believe that "angels" can be people you know and have known for a long time.  An inspired bit of wisdom or a kind act could be a message from god.  "Angels" are only messengers anyway, so why could a human not carry the message?  Kind of blurs the bounds between the physical and the divine.

Quakers have deliberately avoided the creation of a dogma that tells people how they have to believe.  As a result you find a lot of free thinkers in Quaker meetings.
Doug

Edited by Doug1o29, 11 July 2013 - 01:17 PM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#95    Jor-el

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:36 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 11 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

So what have the professional journals said about these cases?  You probably can't find actual scientific articles on all of them, but at least some should have been examined by genuine experts.
Doug

Many of them were reported by the journals themselves... that's why we know about them.

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#96    Doug1o29

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:58 PM

View PostJor-el, on 11 July 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:


Many of them were reported by the journals themselves... that's why we know about them.
In other words:  science correcting its mistakes as expected.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#97    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:04 PM

If God exists then everyone is in His mind all the time; ergo no God.  There are moral problems with saying a being exists who could stop the suffering but doesn't, no matter what sort of myth you invent to try to explain it all away.  It's really not brain surgery here.


#98    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 July 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

If God exists then everyone is in His mind all the time; ergo no God.  There are moral problems with saying a being exists who could stop the suffering but doesn't, no matter what sort of myth you invent to try to explain it all away.  It's really not brain surgery here.

I've tried explaining that many times the past couple years on this board, they don't understand.

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#99    Jor-el

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 10 July 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Ignoring what it says at the very bottom of Page 66 will not make it go away. To whit:

Subsequent Carbon 14 tests have dated the skeleton to 17,000 BC.

Seriously, they dated it? (as if I didn't know)

I wonder how, since they did not use the skull, and the rest of the skeleton disappeared from the Munich during the 2nd World War....

The museum director provided some small fragments of bone, which Protsch said were "most likely" part of the original skeleton.

Yeah science in action...

Oh, another thing.... C-14 has a half life of ~5,568 years, The maximum theoretical detection limit is about 100,000 years and he wanted to date a fossil that was supposedly over 500.000 years old using this method... what does that tell us?

Quote

Quote Reck all you want, it still doesn't alter that fact that the tests done is England on the samples showed he was wrong.

If I'm quoting Reck its because the testing is BS, as I have demonstrated above... You do not use bone fragments from an unknown or doubtful source to test the age of a known fossil... I think that's pretty basic.

You do not use a test that has an upper limiting factor inferior to the supposed age of the fossil in question... I think that's pretty basic as well.

But I think we have said all we are going to usefully say to one another... good luck with your belief in evolution.

Quote

Quote


In a letter dated 3 November 1974 to Alan L. Bryan, a colleague in Alberta, she said:

My capsule comment on the situation (expletives deleted) is that this is one of the most irresponsible public announcements with which it has ever been my misfortune to become involved. Of the three dating methods used by Malde on the materials, two are so new that we have essentially no information on their validity. The third (fission-track dating) gave an anomalous result of about 300,000 ± 300,000 (in other words, no date at all).

That's pretty well cut and dried. There were two questionable dating methods used and a third which essentially gave no meaningful date. That's a no-brainer.

cormac      

So you quote Irwin-Williams and you again ignore the evidence...

It seems Irwin-Williams got the fission track date wrong. (It was in the article... you ignored it.)

Steen-McIntyre, in a letter to J.L. Bada, cites the date given by that method as 370,000 ± 200,000; a wide range of error, but hardly meaningless. The experimental methods (Tephrahydration and Uranium series) have since been found to be reasonably reliable.

Believe what you want, but get your facts straight and be open minded.

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#100    Jor-el

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:28 PM

View PostHarte, on 11 July 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

The Hueyatlaco site might be genuine. Without confirmation, however, it must remain a genuine puzzle.

Maybe this will help in that regard:


Source

Also, more here.

Thank you for sharing this Harte, I will keep those links and use them in future...

Here is another in the same vein...

http://www.edconrad.com/

This is proof that man is not merely  a few hundred thousand or million years old and it is backed by testing...



Quote

Jor-el should run with this instead of bogus crap long ago disproven.

At least this is recent, and doesn't in fact violate any established theory - it simply indicates previously unknown migrations of either H. Sapiens or one of his predecessors like later forms of Erectus, just like Hueyatlaco might indicate.

Let me point out that it has already been established that Erectus knew at least something about traveling across the ocean, at least for short distances (Flores Island, Malta finds.) (EDIT: Sorry, that was Crete, IIRC, not Malta.)

Drop Cremo, Jor-el, and work with actual science.  It's more exciting because it's real.

Harte

I would drop him in a heartbeat if many of his assertions weren't in fact true, even if he used many examples that were in fact disproven... there are a number that are not... Hueyatlaco being one of them. Olduvai man being another.

There are dozens of others he didn't mention, like the ones your links provided, but the point is that there aren't supposed to be humans or even humanlike beings over 100 million years ago... and people are surprised and shout hoax when we have human and dinosaur footprints in the same rock bed...

No evolution as it stands is in error, unimaginably huge error... I'm sure you will disagree, but that is how I see it after the evidence is all wheighed.

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#101    Sherapy

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:10 PM

View Postscowl, on 07 July 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Odd that you think very few humans have these things. You should get out and meet more of us. You'll find there's nothing special about it.

No kidding, and MW will find that all walks of life experience joy and happiness and are not religious too! LOL




#102    Mr Walker

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:28 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 11 July 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Some Quakers believe that "angels" can be people you know and have known for a long time.  An inspired bit of wisdom or a kind act could be a message from god.  "Angels" are only messengers anyway, so why could a human not carry the message?  Kind of blurs the bounds between the physical and the divine.

Quakers have deliberately avoided the creation of a dogma that tells people how they have to believe.  As a result you find a lot of free thinkers in Quaker meetings.
Doug

Because of where i live, i have never met a quaker. From my reading i empathise with some of their beliefs but not others.

And there is a distinction between angels and human messengers from god. I have had humans come up to me  and say, "god told me to tell you this," then deliver a very personal and relevant message from god..Because god speaks personally to me, this is usually a deliberate physical affirmation that the message is not just from within my head but from an external source.

But then I have had a message and a physical delivery from a being who appeared human and interacted with a dozen other people, but dematerialised from an isolated bacony five floors above the ground. That has the parameters/ hallmarks of angelic behaviour  and ability, not human. My own personal theory is that angels are not spearate beings but physical manifestations or avatars of the totality of god. But that is just a theory. They could be a client race of god, using technology.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#103    Mr Walker

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:34 PM

View PostSherapy, on 11 July 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

No kidding, and MW will find that all walks of life experience joy and happiness and are not religious too! LOL

One can be ahppy without being religious. I was happy without being religious but try ticking off my checklist. it is not just about happiness. If people are so happy, why does one in 7 australians suffer from depression and why is suicide the biggest killer of australian men between 15 and 45, and women under 35? Why are those incidences increasing.Why do people need drugs and alcohol to be happy or "normal"? Why is anorexia and bulemia a problem? Why do people  try to buy love and affection with sex? And why do so many people suufer from low self esteem?

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#104    Mr Walker

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:42 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 July 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

If God exists then everyone is in His mind all the time; ergo no God.  There are moral problems with saying a being exists who could stop the suffering but doesn't, no matter what sort of myth you invent to try to explain it all away.  It's really not brain surgery here.

It is not myth but logic which explains this (whether real or not a creator god must create a being like itself or like us, with free wil,l  other wise we cannot grow learn evolve or develop. We cannot have conscience guilt creativity or purpose. As we do have those things, and do have free will then any creator god, if he created us, gave us them)

Now, given that self evident free will and human nature, god cannot just make things right. To do so woud require both abrogating free will and also altering our nature without our consent.

Only we can do that alteration. The role and purpose of god in religious theology is to educate and motivate us to make things right. Only we can stop our pain suffering etc by chosing not to hbe envious greedy angry afraid etc And it is really very easy and simple and within human ability to do so Each individual must be taught and learn how to think and act, so that while we still make choices, they are constructive, creative and positive choices, made from our own free willed  decisions,made in the full knowledge and understanding of the consequences of every choice..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#105    Paranoid Android

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:59 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 July 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

If God exists then everyone is in His mind all the time; ergo no God.  There are moral problems with saying a being exists who could stop the suffering but doesn't, no matter what sort of myth you invent to try to explain it all away.  It's really not brain surgery here.
There are moral problems with saying a being exists who could stop the suffering but doesn't

A person I know once had a child who was going through teething.  It's a painful time for children, but it can be alleviated in certain ways.  One day the child found a perfect way to stop the pain.  He was in a room and found a nice cool object to suck on.  But the moment the child did it, the parents ran in and stopped him.  They told him that he could do that.  But it felt so good that the child kept trying.  But the parents kept stopping him.  Why would the parents do this?  Are they cruel and vindictive and want to see their child suffer?  Is there a moral problem here that a parent can see a way for their child to stop suffering but they deny him?  Should we call the authorities for child abuse?

You may have guessed already, but what the child was sucking on was the rim of a toilet bowl.  It was nice and cold and alleviated the pain, but also it was a hub for germs.  From the child's perspective, he had no idea why his parents were being so mean.  They didn't know any better.  So let's move this back to God.  Are we like children, who sees suffering and wonders why God (if such exists) would be so cruel as to allow suffering.  But from God's perspective there may very well be a very clear and obvious reason why it exists.  But we are too young to understand it.

I have some theories as to what that may be, but this thread really isn't the place to go into it so I'll just leave it there for you to consider ;)

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