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Why so much depression and why pills to cure

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#16    GreenmansGod

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:49 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 04 July 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Yeah we live in a time where conforming is the norm now and if you don't conform some people have a real problem with it, and fads come and go so fast half the time its not even worth it to even try and conform.  For instance I don't have a FaceBook or Myspace page and I'm fine with that.  Most of my cousins and aunts do though, but I just don't see the point.

It is against my path to be conforming.  One of the attributes of a Reformed Druid is nonconformity.  But I find the social network to be useful.  It is tool, if used properly  it will end up pulling the world into a more peaceful place.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#17    White Crane Feather

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:40 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 04 July 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Things to combat depression:
Smile whether or not you feel like it.  It helps trick your brain into thinking you are happy.

Slow your breathing when you are feeling stressed.  Breath in counting to 7, hold count to 7, breath out counting to 8.  It stops the fight or flight response and fools you brain in to thinking here is no danger.

Practice being happy. I have flowers on my porch. I go out and sit with them. I admire their beautiful and focus on that.

Find a hobby and do it. Another one of those things whether you feel like it or not.

Exercise, do something you enjoy.

Join a club or support group, socialize.

Stay away from depressants like booze. I stay out of the bar.  I don't have an issue with drinking but I find bars depressing, because people who hang out there are depressed for the most part.   I am old hippie anyway and I prefer drumming circles.

Anybody else got suggestions?
Strenuous exercise

Vitamin b complex and vitamin c supliments

Meditation

A handfuls of pumpkin seeds and cashoes every day.

A vision quest once a year .

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#18    pallidin

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:20 PM

I think that we all can agree that "depression" is a serious disorder, affecting everything from our own sense of "self-worth" to engagement in society.

The issue seems to be as to whether or not this is "biological" or psychological.

Biological meaning an actual chemical inbalance in one's brain.

Psychological meaning more so an emotionally scewed perspective without a biological component(think sudden rage)


The difference is a hard call, as the symptoms are very similar. (i.e. the placebo effect) and I asked my doctor if there was any test to separate the two. He said no. He said that there is no blood test to determine this.

For example, life-changing exposures, such as death of a loved one, severe financial distress, etc... can easily cause within a person to express many symptoms that mimic biological depression, whereas as good "vacation" can often snap them out of that.

I hate anti-depressants, not for those that need them, but for those that don't.


#19    GreenmansGod

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

It is both, physical and psychological.  You have to treat both.  The pills without therapy is a waste of time.  A good therapist is worth their weight in pills. Your brain picks up habits, you have to change the thought pattern until it becomes a habit to be happy. If you have damage you have to learn to work around it. I have a little crutch to help.  Sometimes it takes some trial and error to find the right antidepressant.  Everybody has grief and sorrow enter in their life from time to time.  But if it has been going on for two years you are over due for some help.

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#20    Beany

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:40 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 July 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

We dont live in societies which allow us to be our true selves. We are forced to think, believe and act like everyone else, there is a standard to what is normal and acceptable and to go against it we receive outright or subliminal ridicule. We redicule ourselves for not being standard and this constant weight makes us psychologically not well on a minor scale and very ill in some or many cases. The problem is in society and is transfered to the individual. We can break free of it but it is a challenge and a fight and most people need guidance to do it. Most guidance is inadequate however, pills may help for temporary relief but by no means is curing the actual problem. I believe our minds our powerful instruments and with purposeful conditioning can be healed! We can acheive a state of semi-perpetual bliss, frequent ecstatic glee and moment by moment  appreciation for life. Everyday is a stepping stone and every avenue should be seen as such. Ultimately we have to grow into our natural selves, who by the way is always growing. Being who we are supposed to be has nothing to do with societal norms. We are depressed because we are bound.. prisoners trapped in a frame of mind.

I get what you're saying about conformity. I tried it and it never worked very well for me, I was never able to sustain my efforts, and honestly? I could never quite figure out what normal was. But I don't think society keeps us from being ourselves, I think we bind ourselves, out of fear and the choices we make. Sure it can be difficult to break free, it usually is, but it's worth the struggle and insecurities and negative reactions that sometimes occur. But easier than living a conforming life that has few rewards & lots of anxiety, a little joy. Possibly finding our joy & bliss is meant to be difficult, because it is those difficulties that lead us to new ways of thinking and problem solving, help us find our inner strength & wisdom, develop persistence & commitment, creativity, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. But wouldn't the great tragedy be to never take the first step in that journey, to hold back, to wait for someone's approval that may never come?


#21    rodentraiser

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:32 AM

I can answer your question about the pills. It's very simple. Pills are cheap and most insurance plans cover them. Serious therapy cost thousands and thousands of dollars and most insurance plans don't cover any more than say, 6 to 12 visits, if that many. I'd like to have therapy, but it's a dream that will never happen. So I take the pills. Does that bother me? No, not really. If I were a diabetic, then I would need to take insulin to save my life. These pills are as life saving as insulin and I know if I don't take them, I will die. That's just the way it is.

As for depression, seriously, I'm beginning to think it's a glitch in the brain before we're born. Just like some people are born artists and others are gifted leaders, I think some people are just born with a kink that makes them depressed. Don't forget, the US was the end of a journey for the most adventuresome, the most recalcitrant, and the most troublesome people from other countries. We're also the largest mixing ground of many different nationalities of people ever, many of whom had not married outside their own village in centuries before coming here. Maybe that contributed to depression just as it contributed to the number of people in this country who have debilitating headaches. Who knows? The good thing about depression today is that it's easier to diagnose and there's not the stigma against it like there used to be. But I think of it as a disease that needs to be managed, not something that can be eradicated.

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We have been voting for the lesser of two evils for decade upon decade and look where it’s gotten us.     Coleman Luck


#22    Cora Calliope

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:32 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 04 July 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Expectation of quality of life in modern countries is now very high. When then expectation is not met, people get depressed.
Modern society leads us to want more. We're actually extremely lucky and too many people take it for granted.

Simply put - expect too much, get less, get sad.

Pills do their thing - they are tested and tried and if diagnosed and applied correctly, the treatments can be very effective. Side affects are well known and clearly advised.

I cannot speak for any other person with a mental illness. I will say, however, that in my case, I did not develop clinical depression at age 13 because of "expectation of quality of life". Also, clinical depression is NOT the same thing as feeling sad because you're just ungrateful, lazy, stupid, selfish, etc.


#23    QuiteContrary

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:57 AM

Sometimes too it can be about changing your circumstances not
changing how you "look at" or "deal" with your circumstances and not just changing your perspective.
This can be hard to impossible to identify when you feel you are in a dark pit and can't "see" anything, or think you are trapped or are just used to doing things the same or if you have given up.
It can also be hard if it involves loved ones in your life who are bringing you down.


#24    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:07 AM

The psychiatric profession has a huge investment in schooling and training that isn't worth much if a pill lifts the depression, so naturally they try to undermine the rather plain evidence.


#25    Beany

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:14 AM

I found this on WebMD. It seems there is a physical etiology for depression. It's an illness, not a choice, and not a sign of some sort of character flaw or weakness.

Researchers have noted differences in the brains of people who are depressed as compared to people who are not. For instance, the hippocampus, a small part of the brain that is vital to the storage of memories, appears to be smaller in people with a history of depression than in those who've never been depressed. A smaller hippocampus has fewer serotonin receptors. Serotonin is a calming brain chemical known as a neurotransmitter that allows communication between nerves in the brain and the body. It's also thought that the neurotransmitter norepinephrine may be involved in depression.


#26    rodentraiser

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:49 AM

You're right, Beany. And that's what happens in depression. Here is how an anti-depressant drug works:


"SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) ease depression by affecting naturally occurring chemical messengers (neurotransmitters), which are used to communicate between brain cells. SSRIs block the reabsorption (reuptake) of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain. Changing the balance of serotonin seems to help brain cells send and receive chemical messages, which in turn boosts mood.
Most antidepressants work by changing the levels of one or more of these neurotransmitters. SSRIs are called selective because they seem to primarily affect serotonin, not other neurotransmitters."



In other words, if I remember correctly here, serotonin is released and some of it is always reabsorbed back. In the case of depression, too much serotonin is reabsorbed, and an anti-depressant is used to block that reuptake, allowing a normal amount of serotonin to work in the brain.



The problem that is happening now is the generic anti-depressants on the market. I used to do just fine on Prozac. Then they went to generic and naturally, no insurance company is going to pay for the real thing when generics are available. But like anything else, generics are cheap for a reason. The filler used in the capsule to surround the bit of actual drug is sometimes not as refined as it could be. IN addition, the capsule walls of a generic drug are sometimes thinner or thicker than they should be, allowing the drug to release too late or too early. I know on generic Prozac, my depression is alleviated just a fraction of what it was on the real thing and on some occasions, I even got sick on the generic stuff. The battle is on now with my doctor to find an anti-depressant I can take that will work - and that my insurance company will pay for. So far I have to say we're losing the battle.

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We have been voting for the lesser of two evils for decade upon decade and look where it’s gotten us.     Coleman Luck


#27    Beany

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:27 AM

sorry to hear about your problems with the generics. You finally had it figured out, and the game changed. I get really bummed sometimes that people attribute depression to some sort of character defect or personal flaw, with  a blaming the victim approach, as if the "buck up" was helpful in any way. I personally think more of these kinds of illnesses have a physical etiology than most people, even doctors, realize, instead of a mental or psychological basis.

I hope you get your meds and the insurance figured out. No one should be put in your position.


#28    Tia

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:49 AM

I agree, depression can be a chemical imbalance clearly now mentioned in medical text books as real or it can be caused by a situation that is happening in the persons life at a certain time.

People also forget the past can and does have a major affect on people and the way their brain/ thought processes now work. Personally I know so many people that have suffered such traumatic events and abuse in their past that even years of therapy does not help.

Like telling someone to just get over it, telling someone the past is over is no help either.

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#29    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:20 AM

I went through years of various therapies to no avail except shoveling out the money.  Then came a certain pill and twice a day for a couple of years and it is as though my brain were rewired.  There seems to be a bias in the profession against the "happiness pills," but I think it is a subconscious career protection reaction.  No single pill of course solves everything, and the effects are subtle and take time, and there are certain reactions to be on the lookout for, but I think this is where the professional should begin, and not treat it as a last resort.


#30    Lilly

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

Sometimes depression is biochemical and medication is very useful.

Sometimes depression is situational and counseling/life style change is what's needed.

In both instances doing destructive stuff (street drugs, lots of alcohol, acting out) never helps.

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