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Where did the name - America come from?


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#91    questionmark

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:03 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 07 July 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Ironically, some who seemed opposed to having foreigners label others and their lands (exonyms) for them they seem to be ascribing a Latin-derived name on Germanic people of the past instead of one (endonym) they would have preferred themsleves in that era.

Of interest is that while the Germanics themselves, at least in High German, preferred the term diutisc for themselves they labeled the foreigners at the edge of their marches (frontiers) as walesc.

At least in English now, for some but not all call themselves other names in their own tongues, the Welsh in the UK (Cymry in their own tongue), the Walloons in Belgium (Walons in their own tongue),  and the Vlachs of Eastern Europe (Roumanian in their own tongue) all were originally just waslesc, "foreigners", to the Germanic people. The border between the Flemish (German-speakers) and Waloons (French-speakers) in Belgium has been a stable dividing line between these two tongues and ethnic groups for a very long time BTW.




@ questionmark since you could not answer the questions previously asked or offer proper proof for what you claimed here is another chance in another matter: if you can find older sources than this in a vernacular Germanic tongue (and not Latin) for what they called their language, their lands, or themselves, then please offer it.

For now I leave you the following:

The Annolied (Song of Anno) was written around 1100 in Early Middle High German. Again, if you can, find anything written by the Germanics in their own tongue that offers a different naming convention...

First will be the Germanic venacular of the era followed by an English translation.



[English link] [German link]

Anybody who knows a little about German literature would know that the above is the fifth oldest writing fragment in any High German dialect, the oldest being the Prayer of Wessobrunn (800 A.D.), so the task would be near impossible, would it not? Kind of like asking who came before Adam? And we are again 200 years away from our time frame.

The previous works are about the three wise guys (a theater play, 1080), the Memento Mori (1070) and the Ezzo Song (that deals mostly with Biblical motives, 1063). What you need is records and letters. And as hint: those were mostly written by the chaplains as they were probably the only ones in the court capable of writing at all. The oldest charter written in German, and not Latin dates from the 13th century, so that does not help either very much... but documents in Latin where the words were translated and showing the original do help.

But this may help you as reference: The translation of Latin school books for use in German Cloister Schools was called the Teutonicus (~950 A.D.), not the Germanicus, and certainly not the Diutsce.

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#92    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:45 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 06 July 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Quite correct, but European natives (which the Romans doubtless were) had a name for it... And the Germans themselves call it Deutschland, or the country of the Teutons (the last Germanic tribe around there).

Correct. Germanicus is evidence.

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#93    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

Maybe Martin Waldseemüller coined term himself.

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#94    Jessica Christ

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:51 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 07 July 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:



Anybody who knows a little about German literature would know that the above is the fifth oldest writing fragment in any High German dialect, the oldest being the Prayer of Wessobrunn (800 A.D.), so the task would be near impossible, would it not? Kind of like asking who came before Adam? And we are again 200 years away from our time frame.

The previous works are about the three wise guys (a theater play, 1080), the Memento Mori (1070) and the Ezzo Song (that deals mostly with Biblical motives, 1063). What you need is records and letters. And as hint: those were mostly written by the chaplains as they were probably the only ones in the court capable of writing at all. The oldest charter written in German, and not Latin dates from the 13th century, so that does not help either very much... but documents in Latin where the words were translated and showing the original do help.

But this may help you as reference: The translation of Latin school books for use in German Cloister Schools was called the Teutonicus (~950 A.D.), not the Germanicus, and certainly not the Diutsce.

We were discussing their earliest writing where they have a name for themselves, their lands, or their common language.

It was provided in the Annolied.

If you wish provide a source for your following claim: "The translation of Latin school books for use in German Cloister Schools was called the Teutonicus (~950 A.D.), not the Germanicus, and certainly not the Diutsce.".

Although that is a reference to Notker Teutonicus, or Notker the German, is his name in popular form and also known as Notker Laebo. He was born circa 950 CE, yes, but did not translate anything til much later.

Edited by The world needs you, 08 July 2013 - 02:40 AM.


#95    Papagiorgio

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 July 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Yea -- that is a problem.  Why do countries in their "official" names have to be so long.  Why can't it be, "New Zealand" rather than "the Commonwealth of New Zealand" (or whatever it really is).  Some countries regally get peculiar and bizarre that way, like "Cote d'Ivoire" or "The People's Republic of Vietnam."  "Britain" should surely be enough instead of, "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."

The US is a particular problem since Canada and Mexico and Brazil and so on are all "America."  I vote for "Yankeeland."
I think the southerners would have a problem being referred to as "Yankees". :w00t:

I'm just saying.

#96    questionmark

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 08 July 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

We were discussing their earliest writing where they have a name for themselves, their lands, or their common language.

It was provided in the Annolied.

If you wish provide a source for your following claim: "The translation of Latin school books for use in German Cloister Schools was called the Teutonicus (~950 A.D.), not the Germanicus, and certainly not the Diutsce.".

Although that is a reference to Notker Teutonicus, or Notker the German, is his name in popular form and also known as Notker Laebo. He was born circa 950 CE, yes, but did not translate anything til much later.

Well, that is pretty basic knowledge for those who boast knowledge about German literature

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#97    danielost

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

Frank other than mexico no nation in america north or south has state in their names.  Mexicans are known as mexicans, and we are known as america.  I may get this slightly wrong but mexicos full name is the united states of mexico.

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#98    Jessica Christ

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:42 AM

Regarding Columbus and why his status was legendary at least and mythical at best in the past and why earlier Americans did not have the knee jerk reaction of, "he did not discover America," which of course he did not as people were already living here, he did discover new markets for the Europeans, earlier Americans needed symbols after their break with England and Columbus was perfect.

Quote

Having effected a separation from England and its cultural icons, America was left without history—or heroes on which to base a shared sense of their social selves. Washington Irving was instrumental in popularizing Columbus. His version of Columbus' life, published in 1829, was more a romance than a biography. The book was very popular, and contributed to an image of the discoverer as a solitary individual who challenged the unknown sea, as triumphant Americans contemplated the dangers and promise of their own wilderness frontier. As a consequence of his vision and audacity, there was now a land free from kings, a vast continent for new beginnings. In the years following the Revolution the poetic device "Columbia" was used as a symbol of both Columbus and America, King's College of New York changed its name in 1792 to Columbia, and the new capitol in Washington was subtitled District of Columbia.

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States





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