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what is america


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#16    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:33 AM

What is America?

.



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#17    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:40 AM

Freedom is the ability to do what you want when you want where you want.  There are physical limits on freedom, such as gravity; there are cultural limits, such as the incest taboo, there are personal limits, such as one's conscience, and there are legal limits, such as a red light.


#18    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:44 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 July 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Freedom is the ability to do what you want when you want where you want.  There are physical limits on freedom, such as gravity; there are cultural limits, such as the incest taboo, there are personal limits, such as one's conscience, and there are legal limits, such as a red light.

Do you own yourself?

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#19    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:14 AM

Do I own myself.  Yes, I guess I do, so long as "ownership" is understood as not something magical but a legal fiction that carries both rights and obligations as described in the appropriate statutes.


#20    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:27 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 July 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Do I own myself.  Yes, I guess I do, so long as "ownership" is understood as not something magical but a legal fiction that carries both rights and obligations as described in the appropriate statutes.

Where do you get rights? Who gives them to you?

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#21    danielost

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:28 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 05 July 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:



Can you clarify your thoughts here. Your mention of Jackson and Sharpton suggests you're talking of black people. Now, history's not my strong point but I have to pick you up on a couple of things here.

For now, I'll ignore your apparent virulent racism. You say "passed laws forceing us to assiate with people we didn't want". These are Americans you're talking about here. And their ancestors were reluctant immigrants (to say the least). I'm sure they would rather have stayed where they were. So how can you possibly justify calling them "people we didn't want"? If anything, they were forced to associate with you - not the other way round.

I agree but their were/are many who don't.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#22    Frank Merton

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:32 AM

Ah -- you are getting into philosophical philosophy and "Natural Rights."  I don't buy it.  We get rights through law and law comes into existence through duly constituted institutions we call government.

Even if natural rights exist as some sort of mystical substance we inherit at birth, the US has been one of the poorer countries at maintaining them, given slavery and the Natives and the present huge jail population.


#23    danielost

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:32 AM

View Postacidhead, on 05 July 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:



Where do you get rights? Who gives them to you?

He gets his rights from he same place you get yours, from the government.  In the usa it is supposed to be the other way round.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#24    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:43 AM

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

He gets his rights from he same place you get yours, from the government.  In the usa it is supposed to be the other way round.

yes... through the use of gov force and coercion. A total contradiction of liberty.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#25    Arbenol

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:54 AM

View Postacidhead, on 05 July 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:



yes... through the use of gov force and coercion. A total contradiction of liberty.

What is liberty?


#26    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:07 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 05 July 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

What is liberty?

It's freedom.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#27    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:12 AM

In one short sentence Liberty/Freedom is ownership of yourself.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#28    danielost

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:13 AM

When there is a major desaster in the usa, our race problems go away during clean up.  I forget his name but when the black atholete was insulted by hitler walking out during the medal ceramony.  He came home an american hero.  It used to be that when someone from outside the country insulted someone we stood behid that person.  Today the two parties, mostly the libeals, are trying to devide us.  It is as bad thing to be successful. It is a bad thing to be a white man.  It is a bad thing to be male.  It is a bad thing to be married to someone of the opposates. Sex  it is a bad thing to be a mom.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#29    Arbenol

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:43 AM

View Postacidhead, on 05 July 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

In one short sentence Liberty/Freedom is ownership of yourself.

So what should that mean in reality? How can you exercise this self- ownership? What are its implications for rights and responsibilities? What is the role of government?

Edited by Arbenol68, 05 July 2013 - 05:45 AM.


#30    acidhead

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 06:05 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 05 July 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

So what should that mean in reality? How can you exercise this self- ownership? What are its implications for rights and responsibilities? What is the role of government?

the role of government is to protect liberty

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"




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