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Vatican to make John Paul II a saint

vatican pope john paul ii saint

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#16    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 05 July 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Miracles, and we are expected to take this seriously?.

Hardly, it is not asking you or any non Christian to take any of it seriously It's simply just a news article, not some form of, come to us and convert note..... Their OWN followers may  like it and support it..It's their faith ....If Catholics and other Christians believe in miracles, so be it..  

I seriously cannot see how any of that would disrupt our day....

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 06 July 2013 - 11:14 AM.

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#17    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostDarkwind, on 05 July 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

:rofl:  I think it is going to raise one first class stink, but if that is really what they want to do.  I don't think much good is going to come of it for them.

I have yet to see one of our Catholic UMers  ( Mark Dole and Star of the sea ) to enter a pagan thread and poke fun laughing... When I do, I'll be very surprised..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 06 July 2013 - 11:21 AM.

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#18    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

What Pagan threads, there are hardly any. Most threads in the religious part of this forum are nothing more than Christian propaganda containing the most tedious tautology from posters who like to think they are clever, yet their purpose is as clear as crystal. Pagan v Christian on this forum is very much a one way street against Pagans. To even suggest that this "news" may "disrupt" my day is ridiculous. It is trivial garbage, but while that religion still has power over peoples lives, then I will attack it and continue to attack it. It is not live and let live with this religion, it is abuse of power, a struggle by them against the rest of us to maintain the power they have enjoyed for millenia. That people since the enlightenment have questioned this garbage and abuse of power is frightening to Popes and Metropolitans and the rest of the crows. People still get killed in parts of the world for "witchcraft", others beaten because their lifestiles do not comply with Christianity. That some Christians here bleat about being "beaten" by the wicked Pagans or atheists is a sick joke. Christian apologists and propagandists are all over this forum with their sly and not so sly propagandist nonsense.

A rant? yes, because I am tired of this garbage in the name of some Levantine religion that pretends it is the "truth". Any religion that has the power to destroy lives or to enforce compliance through civil and criminal law needs very close scrutiny, and in my opinion any such power should be destroyed utterly.

Any slimy, pompous and patronising comments that are usually heaped on me from the "god" brigade will be ignored.

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 06 July 2013 - 12:12 PM.


#19    markdohle

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 06 July 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

What Pagan threads, there are hardly any. Most threads in the religious part of this forum are nothing more than Christian propaganda containing the most tedious tautology from posters who like to think they are clever, yet their purpose is as clear as crystal. Pagan v Christian on this forum is very much a one way street against Pagans. To even suggest that this "news" may "disrupt" my day is ridiculous. It is trivial garbage, but while that religion still has power over peoples lives, then I will attack it and continue to attack it. It is not live and let live with this religion, it is abuse of power, a struggle by them against the rest of us to maintain the power they have enjoyed for millenia. That people since the enlightenment have questioned this garbage and abuse of power is frightening to Popes and Metropolitans and the rest of the crows. People still get killed in parts of the world for "witchcraft", others beaten because their lifestiles do not comply with Christianity. That some Christians here bleat about being "beaten" by the wicked Pagans or atheists is a sick joke. Christian apologists and propagandists are all over this forum with their sly and not so sly propagandist nonsense.

A rant? yes, because I am tired of this garbage in the name of some Levantine religion that pretends it is the "truth". Any religion that has the power to destroy lives or to enforce compliance through civil and criminal law needs very close scrutiny, and in my opinion any such power should be destroyed utterly.

Any slimy, pompous and patronising comments that are usually heaped on me from the "god" brigade will be ignored.

Ya gotta say what you gotta say, however, I have nothing against other religions.  There are only people, and just like in politics, religion can raise a lot of hackles.  I wish you well in your search and that you find peace.

peace
mark

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 06 July 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Hardly, it is not asking you or any non Christian to take any of it seriously It's simply just a news article, not some form of, come to us and convert note..... Their OWN followers may  like it and support it..It's their faith ....If Catholics and other Christians believe in miracles, so be it..  

I seriously cannot see how any of that would disrupt our day....

How is it that you are so sane ;-)....I love it that you are hear my friend.

peace
mark


#20    markdohle

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 12:42 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 06 July 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Some posts here are worded as if satan himself had launched an attack upon the righteous of the world......   So, are we all simply to believe in "miracles" like little children believe in Father Frost. I have nothing against John Paul II, clearly a man of exceptional ability and humanity, but still only a man. The common theme here is "Thou shalt NOT say one word against Christianity" particulary to point and laugh and say "The emperor has no clothes", or to point out that while Pagan beliefs are mocked and derided as superstitious and childish, it seems okay that a mortal man can now be made into a demi-god, and that, despite any objections, is what a saint is.  My post was not an insult or any attack, it was an observation.

No one seems to have reacted strongly to what you said, they may disagree with you.  Again, you can say what you want, we all have that right my friend.

peace
mark

Edited by markdohle, 06 July 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#21    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 12:52 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 06 July 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

No one seems to have reacted strongly to what you said, they must may disagree with you.  Again, you can say what you want, we all have that right my friend.

peace
mark
It is the implications only slightly under the surface. It is the constant jumping down the throat, even with some politeness, when any comment is made that does not "conform". In my post I did an edit to add this "some", for I know you are not amongst "them". I think most will know precisely the people I mean. Your position is clear, you do not hide or evade, others lie through their teeth, even to the extent of denying they are Christians or any sort of believer, yet attack any who do not "conform", with some vigour and hatred. They are contemptuous garbage.


#22    Ashyne

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

The Saint Of Mental Deception, more like it.


#23    Saru

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

Could we keep the comments in this thread civil, respectful and on topic please.

Thank you.


#24    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 06 July 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

What Pagan threads, there are hardly any.

I have read through a good few Pagan threads on here over time.. They are not as many as Christian threads, being that more on here happen to be Christian..If more on here were Pagan, then you are likely to see more of the Pagan threads and more often.... Same if there were more Jewish people posting, you are bound to read more Jewish threads...Christianity is mentioned more because of the population of Christians, and it is the biggest religion known..   Its not a biased remark, no, it's pointing out fact..

Let me ask you something regarding the topic at hand...When you said - Miracles, and we are expected to take this seriously?.   Did you feel that readers all over from all walks of life were meant to take it seriously?... OR..Was it nothing more than a new article about one faith sharing news?

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 06 July 2013 - 01:18 PM.

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#25    DeWitz

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:28 PM

View PostYamato, on 06 July 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

It was a miracle he kept the child molestation racket swept under the rug for so long.

Seriously though, Santo subito!  PJP2 changed the world.

In what way(s) did John Paul II 'change the world?' He recharged traditional Roman Catholicism, invigorated Marian devotion/worship and helped people--not just Roman Catholics--feel good about  faith and common humanity. However, our world----very sadly----remained substantively unchanged.

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#26    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

What the Catholic Church needs to do is canoninze a non-Catholic like Mandela or Ghandi, miracles or no miracles.  That would be a stroke of genius and bring the world closer together without giving up anything.


#27    DeWitz

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:28 PM

Darkwind said earlier in this thread that JP2's canonization could raise "a stink."  It is controversial, except for those who loved him all along. John Paul II, as a man, leader, pope and pastor was thoroughly charismatic even to non-Roman Catholics. This does not detract from the realities of what his papacy did, and did not, accomplish. For every cheek caressed by his hand or heart touched by his words, there were children left unprotected and 'peoples' movements' condemned in the name of anti-communism.

Therefore despite his faith I consider him an opaque figure, nuanced in his approach to a confusing world. From a pragmatic standpoint, I understand better now why the canonization process usually takes decades, if not centuries. It allows for more sober, measured assessment of a papacy, beyond miracles and a cult of personality.

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#28    DeWitz

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 July 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

What the Catholic Church needs to do is canoninze a non-Catholic like Mandela or Ghandi, miracles or no miracles.  That would be a stroke of genius and bring the world closer together without giving up anything.

On first glance this is a great idea. However (bad analogy coming), it would be like a motorcycle being permitted to compete in a NASCAR race. The criteria don't match up, regardless of the speed, skill, reflexes, etc. of the biker. Square pegs, round holes, or something like that. Mandela, Ghandi or Dag Hammarskjold don't fit the pre-existing critera, alas.

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#29    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:50 PM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 06 July 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Darkwind said earlier in this thread that JP2's canonization could raise "a stink."  It is controversial, except for those who loved him all along. John Paul II, as a man, leader, pope and pastor was thoroughly charismatic even to non-Roman Catholics. This does not detract from the realities of what his papacy did, and did not, accomplish.
I didn't think they were trying to distract away from any bad press stories etc...  All I've seen was them sharing something they feel is positive...   The Vatican don't really need to post negative stories, they already have the media doing that for them...

Quote

   For every cheek caressed by his hand or heart touched by his words, there were children left unprotected and 'peoples' movements' condemned in the name of anti-communism.

This is the most common stick anyone has used to smack them with and rightly so...But, with this new pope, I read somewhere he is cleaning house, he has already condemned the Mafia...So I wonder how long will it take him to condemn and out the rest of the crimes done to kids?  I'll play it by ear in the hope he does do something about it.

I know many Catholics are outraged by this too..But those same Catholics have to face the condemning of others because of the Vatican..Its a shame ...But then again, its no different from those who lash out at Christians in general...We know that there is good and bad in all faiths..

This is getting away from the topic though...For once I'd like to see a thread about the church that can stick to the topic...I do not mean any harm with that.. But If I had a penny for each time I read a sex abuse case linked to the church, I would be on my private jet now, heading to some exclusive holiday spot....Sigh, if only..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 06 July 2013 - 02:52 PM.

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#30    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 06 July 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I have read through a good few Pagan threads on here over time.. They are not as many as Christian threads, being that more on here happen to be Christian..If more on here were Pagan, then you are likely to see more of the Pagan threads and more often.... Same if there were more Jewish people posting, you are bound to read more Jewish threads...Christianity is mentioned more because of the population of Christians, and it is the biggest religion known..   Its not a biased remark, no, it's pointing out fact..

Let me ask you something regarding the topic at hand...When you said - Miracles, and we are expected to take this seriously?.   Did you feel that readers all over from all walks of life were meant to take it seriously?... OR..Was it nothing more than a new article about one faith sharing news?
I have no idea what your point is, or your patronising use of caps.






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