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Students question the NSA

thanks snowden.

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#1    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

https://soundcloud.c...ontent=https://

Even university students stump these morons. How can you defend the NSA when they can't even defend themselves? I guess university students are just sooo anti-intellectual these days.
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edit* they are high school students.

Edited by Glorfindel, 05 July 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#2    Kowalski

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

https://soundcloud.c...ontent=https://

Even university students stump these morons. How can you defend the NSA when they can't even defend themselves? I guess university students are just sooo anti-intellectual these days.
.
edit* they are high school students.

LOL,  that's awesome... Glad to see high school students who aren't brain dead.


#3    Spiral staircase

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:39 PM

It was a simple recruiting session and not the open forum for grievance they turned it into. The NSA recruiters handled it well given the situation.

The main person asking the questions was Madiha Tahir, yes, she is going for her Ph.D. at Columbia but she is also a professional reporter whose work has appeared on, "Foreign Affairs, The Wall Street Journal, Democracy Now!, BBC/PRI’s The World, Caravan, and The Columbia Journalism Review, among others." [link]

Judging by the volume of tweets devoted to this one topic on her twitter this might be her 15 minutes of fame. Her reputation as an activist is gold but her reputation as an unbiased journalist has plummeted. Surely she will still find work since many media outlets are biased but they might be few and not at all the reputable organizations who previously accepted her submissions.


#4    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:01 PM

How could such a clearly anti-intellectual person be going for a PhD? And why is asking questions at a recruitment such a bad idea? You'd rather have students nod their heads and sign up instead of asking valid questions? I can't believe you think they "handled it well", their answers would never stand up to academic scrutiny. Your response is beyond anti-intellectual, it amounts to intellectual laziness and fundamentalism. I hate to say that, but there's simply no other explanation for your level of cognitive dissonance.

But thanks for posting how she has been published by so many mainstream sources. Its kinda hard to pin the "crazy conspiracy" tag on her now.


#5    Spiral staircase

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:08 PM

Others can keep characterizing this as "students" but it really is tantamount to a few glorified hecklers among them while the rest were just witnesses.

Madiha Tahir's own blog attempts to justify this in terms of her going to the recruitment session only intending to hear them out but the presence of five high school students made her speak out. Unsure how her logic works.

There was nothing scholastic about this interchange. It was politics and drama in what should have been reserved for others who truly were interested in working for the NSA.

Edited by The world needs you, 05 July 2013 - 08:09 PM.


#6    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:15 PM

I think that makes sense. Why should she let them recruit high school students, when the NSA is lying to their faces? Seems commendable to inform these students of the full story, considering the NSA can't be bothered to provide that themselves. I only ask because you throw the term anti-intellectual around so often, what is so anti-intellectual about a PhD student asking valid questions from a government organization that has been proven to be bald faced liars? There's no way around this fact, short of delusional ignor-ance of reality.

Edited by Glorfindel, 05 July 2013 - 08:18 PM.


#7    Spiral staircase

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

That does seems to be her justification and argument, well paraphrased from her own blog and twitter.

She even had vile words for the teacher who brought the students to what most likely was a wonderful opportunity for them. Doubtful they were applying that day.

Posted Image

Equally doubtful the high school students in attendance shared her agenda against the NSA, her patronizing view of the students themselves, or her sentiment towards their teacher.

She also does seem to have one, an agenda. She was not born here, she has a reason to dislike America (research her family tragedy and while it should not be begrudged it does place her view into perspective), and while there are other issues we could agree upon this is not one of them.

Edited by The world needs you, 05 July 2013 - 09:05 PM.


#8    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM

Perhaps it is doubtful they held such views, but maybe they do now. She was not born here, maybe she has a reason to dislike America. What about the millions of Americans who were born in the USA and did not have family killed in war, that also dislike the NSA, lol? Maybe it has something to do with the disregard for the Constitution? Attacking her heritage adds nothing to the argument when we know how many Americans (and people of other nationalities) are against the NSA's mass spying. I can't figure out what kind of point you are trying to prove, dare I say it you are helping our argument with your posts.

Does she not have freedom of speech? She can say it like it is all she wants, and I agree with her, that teacher is an idiot. Its a good thing a balanced person like her was present to stop the government's spreading of propaganda and targeted brainwashing of the young. "Vile words", those aren't a crime. But he NSA's program does indeed violate many laws, the US Constitution, many other countries laws (such as Canada's and Germany's) and international law. And you are worried about "vile words", boy your priorities are straight. There is no "agenda", its quite simple, the NSA breaks the law, they should face the consequences, the same way us peasants do.

Edited by Glorfindel, 05 July 2013 - 09:26 PM.


#9    Kowalski

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:30 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Maybe it has something to do with the disregard for the Constitution?

That might have something to do with it....


View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Its a good thing a balanced person like her was present to stop the government's spreading of propaganda and targeted brainwashing of the young.

I agree! We need more people like this young lady. She sounds like she is very intelligent as well, and that is sorely lacking, in the high schools nowadays. They tend to end up more like Rachel Jeantel....


#10    Spiral staircase

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

*snip*

What about the millions of Americans who were born in the USA and did not have family killed in war, that also dislike the NSA, lol?

What about them? If China, Russia, and Ecuador decided to attack us over the Snowden affair what side would they be on, ours or theirs?

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

*snip*

Attacking her heritage

Not attacking anyone's heritage here.

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

*snip*

I say it you are helping our argument with your posts.

Some views as part of this national discussion are helping China's, Russia's, and Ecuador's arguments against us.


#11    Glorfindel

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:42 PM

So you're advocating for blind nationalism now? Despite what the NSA does, we could be attacked by worse countries so their behaviour is justified? Maybe those countries wouldn't want to attack us if it weren't for the NSA's behaviour in the first place.

What about them? You said Madiha Tahir has other reasons for being against the NSA, I implied that maybe she is angry about Constitutional violations, like the millions of other American's (who never experienced similar tragedy). So because she is from Pakistan, she surely has another agenda and isn't angry for the same reasons that other Americans and people are. That's called being prejudiced. One might even call it racism.

The NSA is no better than a foreign government agency, they are violating our rights just like our "enemies" do, so your point is moot. In fact, I'm Canadian, so it quite literally is a foreign government violating our rights (alongside our own treasonous government, of course). You call the people worried about government corruption paranoid, yet you think the whole worlds gonna invade the USA over Snowden's leaks, and its laughable. An unconstitutional government no longer represents the people of the United States of America, anymore than the People's Republic of China represents the American people.


#12    Spiral staircase

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

*snip*

In fact, I'm Canadian, so it quite literally is a foreign government violating our rights

I am American and support the NSA.

View PostGlorfindel, on 05 July 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

*snip*

the whole worlds gonna invade the USA over Snowden's leaks

That was rhetorical but what is literal is that the arguments of some Americans against our own NSA do bolster the arguments made against us by China, Russia, and Ecuador.

The rhetorical question still remains: If foreign powers were to invade us over Snowden what side would my fellow Americans take?

Edited by The world needs you, 05 July 2013 - 11:09 PM.


#13    Glorfindel

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:02 AM

View PostThe world needs you, on 05 July 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

I am American and support the NSA.

And you're a stunning example of the results of the glorious American education system too.


View PostThe world needs you, on 05 July 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

That was rhetorical but what is literal is that the arguments of some Americans against our own NSA do bolster the arguments made against us by China, Russia, and Ecuador.

The rhetorical question still remains: If foreign powers were to invade us over Snowden what side would my fellow Americans take?

You are advocating for giving up rights for security, I personally support human rights, not taking them. I would hope Americans take their own side, they are after all, sworn to defend their country from all threats, whether foreign or domestic (NSA). The US government is treating its citizenry like foreign militants on their own soil.

Edited by Glorfindel, 06 July 2013 - 03:05 AM.


#14    Professor T

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:54 PM

http://www.activistp...iters-over.html

Quote

When NSA recruiters went to the University of Wisconsin earlier this week to pitch language students on working for the agency, they got more than they bargained for.

The informed students turned the question-and-answer session into a hearing. On trial were the NSA’s lies, their legality, and how they define “adversary”.

The students recorded audio of the exchange on an iPhone proving that the language-analyst NSA recruiters were left tongue-tied.
“I’m surprised that for language analysts you’re incredibly imprecise with your language,” grad student Madiha Tahir charged when they failed to define what constitutes an adversary.
“What you’re selling us is untrue” she added. “We also know that the NSA took down brochures and fact sheets after the Snowden revelations because those fact sheets had severe inaccuracies and untruths in them — so how are we supposed to believe what you’re saying?”

https://soundcloud.c...tion-the-nsa-at

IMHO, these students have touched on something that is extremely important for the United states, that being the definition of "Adversary" and how their government treats it's citizens and the rest of the world.

From my perspective, as a non United States citizen, the Actions of the US Government makes it very easy for me to view them as an adversary. The world is quickly turning against the US IMO.

Edited by Professor T, 06 July 2013 - 10:04 PM.


#15    Realm

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:41 PM

Agreed. There is no accountability for our government officials. The world has a view of us being the bully and not living by the same rules we try to impose.
And I feel that way too.

Look at it this way too. Eisenhower threatened to send the Army in area 51 so he could find out what was going on out there. They relented and told him, so he
didn't send the Army.

That was over 60 years ago.

If they weren't willing to advise the President of the United States what was happening, who really controls this nation, or is it broken into cells so secretive like
the NSA, where rules don't apply?





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