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Gun-wielding Adam Kokesh Menaces CNN


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#16    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:01 PM

View PostYamato, on 10 July 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Coming for him, and coming for him in the middle of the night with helicopters and a tank and blueprints and breaking the door down and everything else as described are two different things.  And misdemeanor possession of some marijuana is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things...vs. committing four felonies as he claimed to do while loading a shotgun in the magic city.  I presume the search warrant listed the firearm as the item to be searched for.

—snip

7:45 pm is not really the "middle of the night". With DST in effect it is still light out. Sunset will be at 8:36 pm there tonight.

The warrant also seems to have listed the shotgun specifically.

Quote

U.S. Park Police Lt. Pamela Smith said her agency executed a search warrant at Kokesh’s home in Herndon about 7:45 p.m. Tuesday, looking for a weapon.

*snip*

A roommate who saw the search warrant said police were looking for the shotgun Kokesh allegedly used in a July 4th video and materials related to the creation of the video.

http://www.washingto...39_story_1.html


The public will mostly see the police as merely being cautious by serving the warrant in this manner since firearms were involved. They will not see this in terms of "storm troopers" as Kokesh's camp has now conveyed.

While ideologues with similar sentiments as Kokesh might see him as a likable guy they would not mind having over for dinner and even be able to trust others might not. Now after some of the things he said (see article below) it is no surprise law enforcement has a different perception. Taking precautions seems perfectly within bounds.

The rhetoric in the following article is going to further estrange this strain of libertarianism to the general public. A change of tactics and better spokespersons might not be totally unreasonable to consider?

Keep in mind The Daily Caller was founded by a conservative libertarian and is still considered conservative within the Beltway. If they are characterizing Kokesh as a "conspiracy theorist" then it will do much to influence the national conversation if there even is one. Merely labeling them as mainstream or statist is just a disservice to the libertarian cause and does not really stain the rest of us or begin to change the deficit of goodwill libertarianism will face if the gun waving rhetoric continues.

Quote

Conspiracy theorist and activist Adam Kokesh was arrested in his Northern Virginia home Tuesday night on drug possession and weapon charges. The arrest followed a widely seen recent video in which Kokesh loaded a shotgun.

*snip*

The recent storm of scandals plaguing Washington has some anti-government activists eager to harness popular outage and implement radical policy changes or even the overthrow of the federal government. Some, however, are attracting the avid interest of police instead of average citizens. Kokesh had planned an open carry march on Washington for July 4, but called it off late in May.

Last Thursday, Kokesh uploaded a video to YouTube in which he loads four shells into a shotgun in Freedom Plaza in the early morning, while reciting a “Pledge of Resistance.” In the video’s description, Kokesh dares viewers to count the number of felonies he commits in the 23-second clip, which is oddly titled, “Open Carry March in DC a success.”

“We are the final American revolution,” Kokesh says as he cocks the shotgun. “See you next Independence Day.”

*snip*

Announcing the cancellation of the open carry march, Kokesh warned darkly in a statement issued from a Philadelphia jail, “Should one whole year from this July 4th pass while the crimes of this government are allowed to continue, we may have passed the point at which non-violent revolution becomes impossible.”

http://dailycaller.c...okesh-arrested/

Edited by The world needs you, 10 July 2013 - 09:13 PM.


#17    Yamato

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 10 July 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

7:45 pm is not really the "middle of the night". With DST in effect it is still light out. Sunset will be at 8:36 pm there tonight.

The warrant also seems to have listed the shotgun specifically.



http://www.washingto...39_story_1.html


The public will mostly see the police as merely being cautious by serving the warrant in this manner since firearms were involved. They will not see this in terms of "storm troopers" as Kokesh's camp has now conveyed.

While ideologues with similar sentiments as Kokesh might see him as a likable guy they would not mind having over for dinner and even be able to trust others might not. Now after some of the things he said (see article below) it is no surprise law enforcement has a different perception. Taking precautions seems perfectly within bounds.

The rhetoric in the following article is going to further estrange this strain of libertarianism to the general public. A change of tactics and better spokespersons might not be totally unreasonable to consider?

Keep in mind The Daily Caller was founded by a conservative libertarian and is still considered conservative within the Beltway. If they are characterizing Kokesh as a "conspiracy theorist" then it will do much to influence the national conversation if there even is one. Merely labeling them as mainstream or statist is just a disservice to the libertarian cause and does not really stain the rest of us or begin to change the deficit of goodwill libertarianism will face if the gun waving rhetoric continues.



http://dailycaller.c...okesh-arrested/

Quote

7:45 pm is not really the "middle of the night". With DST in effect it is still light out. Sunset will be at 8:36 pm there tonight.

A minor observation.   They were still there after midnight tearing the house apart.

Quote

The warrant also seems to have listed the shotgun specifically.

Thank you. It better have or that would have been a legal problem for the prosecution in court.

Quote

The public will mostly see the police as merely being cautious by serving the warrant in this manner since firearms were involved. They will not see this in terms of "storm troopers" as Kokesh's camp has now conveyed.

I agree that battering down the door and not announcing the warrant was standard operating procedure for serving a warrant on a subject they perceive to be dangerous.  An armored vehicle and 20 SWAT?   That smacks of Stosstruppen.


Quote

While ideologues with similar sentiments as Kokesh might see him as a likable guy they would not mind having over for dinner and even be able to trust others might not. Now after some of the things he said (see article below) it is no surprise law enforcement has a different perception. Taking precautions seems perfectly within bounds.

So long as they had the warrant, I'm giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt and not jumping into any of the conspiracy theories like planting drugs that tend to sprout out of unknowns and unanswered questions in events like this.  

Quote

The rhetoric in the following article is going to further estrange this strain of libertarianism to the general public. A change of tactics and better spokespersons might not be totally unreasonable to consider?
There's plenty of libertarians with different rhetoric out there.  Who's your favorite?

Quote

Keep in mind The Daily Caller was founded by a conservative libertarian and is still considered conservative within the Beltway. If they are characterizing Kokesh as a "conspiracy theorist" then it will do much to influence the national conversation if there even is one. Merely labeling them as mainstream or statist is just a disservice to the libertarian cause and does not really stain the rest of us or begin to change the deficit of goodwill libertarianism will face if the gun waving rhetoric continues.
Pandering and appeasing statists isn't how to fight a battle.  To fight, you have to confront.  These people don't need another rhetorical apologist, they need a challenge.  Labeling them as "mainstream" is a disservice?   If you're going to be hurt by that word, you'll be hurt by any word.  I consider that emotional porcelain.

As for what you're quoting from the dailycaller, you again must not have watched the OP videos.  What Kokesh did and said is the topic of the discussion here.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#18    darkmoonlady

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

He smoked weed in front of the White House, not the smartest thing to do. If you want to be the poster boy for freedom don't do stupid things that get you easily arrested.

“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance …or change... logic can be happily tossed out the window. Religious mania is one of the few infallible ways of responding to the worlds vagaries, because it totally eliminates pure accident. To the true religious maniac, it’s ALL on purpose” – Stephen King, The Stand

#19    Yamato

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

View Postdarkmoonlady, on 10 July 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

He smoked weed in front of the White House, not the smartest thing to do. If you want to be the poster boy for freedom don't do stupid things that get you easily arrested.
He smoked weed in front of the weed-smoking President's house?   So that's stupid but the White House isn't hypocritical?  I think that's stupid.  What Adam smoked in front of the White House is called civil disobedience.  It's sitting in the front of the bus, Rosa.   And it's not stupid, it's necessary.   Government takes the credit for all the great social change that's occurs throughout history but it's the people who demonstrate, who challenge, who push the envelope and yes, who break the lesser and often stupid law, to bring about that great change.   There were armed marches in other capitals and nobody got arrested.  

Squeeze the love out of a goon near you, today:


"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#20    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:49 PM

That is less civil disobedience and more juvenile theatrics in regards to using drugs in front of the White House.

Edited by The world needs you, 10 July 2013 - 10:54 PM.


#21    Yamato

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 10 July 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

That is less civil disobedience and more juvenile theatrics in regards to using drugs in front of the White House.
No victim, no crime.   Don't enslave yourself to hypocrisy.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#22    Kowalski

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:14 PM

View PostYamato, on 10 July 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

He smoked weed in front of the weed-smoking President's house?   So that's stupid but the White House isn't hypocritical?  I think that's stupid.  What Adam smoked in front of the White House is called civil disobedience.  It's sitting in the front of the bus, Rosa.   And it's not stupid, it's necessary.   Government takes the credit for all the great social change that's occurs throughout history but it's the people who demonstrate, who challenge, who push the envelope and yes, who break the lesser and often stupid law, to bring about that great change.   There were armed marches in other capitals and nobody got arrested.  

Squeeze the love out of a goon near you, today:


I believe I have read articles where Obama has admitted to smoking weed.....
So, it must mean that it's okay to do if your the elite that rule this country, but it's not okay, if your a blue collar worker.....Isn't there something wrong with this picture?


#23    Yamato

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostKowalski, on 10 July 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

I believe I have read articles where Obama has admitted to smoking weed.....
So, it must mean that it's okay to do if your the elite that rule this country, but it's not okay, if your a blue collar worker.....Isn't there something wrong with this picture?
He was in the Choom gang.  Hell yeah he's admitted it.

http://abcnews.go.co...ing-choom-gang/

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#24    Drayno

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:53 PM

Kokesh has some balls, I'll give him that.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II
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#25    darkmoonlady

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:39 AM

There is a difference and I mean a huge difference between this guy and Rosa Parks. That you believe they are on the same historical level of civil disobedience makes me wonder if you are understanding what it actually means.

“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance …or change... logic can be happily tossed out the window. Religious mania is one of the few infallible ways of responding to the worlds vagaries, because it totally eliminates pure accident. To the true religious maniac, it’s ALL on purpose” – Stephen King, The Stand

#26    Yamato

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:08 AM

View Postdarkmoonlady, on 11 July 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

There is a difference and I mean a huge difference between this guy and Rosa Parks. That you believe they are on the same historical level of civil disobedience makes me wonder if you are understanding what it actually means.
I understand what it means.   Let's review the definition together:

Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power.
http://en.wikipedia....il_disobedience

Explain the huge difference and how it means that what Adam Kokesh is doing isn't civil disobedience.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#27    Kowalski

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:41 AM

View PostYamato, on 11 July 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I understand what it means.   Let's review the definition together:

Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power.
http://en.wikipedia....il_disobedience

Explain the huge difference and how it means that what Adam Kokesh is doing isn't civil disobedience.

I guess some people don't remember that segregation was the law of the land when Rosa Parks protested against it.... :whistle:

What Kokesh and what Parks did is classic examples of civil disobedience. I don't understand what is so hard about understanding that. They both protested about things the government was doing, that they felt were wrong.


#28    Yamato

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:41 AM

Looks like Adam's facing a maximum sentence of 15-years for possessing mushrooms and loading a shotgun at Freedom Plaza.    Up to 10 years, for the mushrooms.  

Ye slaves who doth endorse thy cagemasters, I pity thee.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#29    acidhead

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:13 AM

View PostYamato, on 18 July 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Looks like Adam's facing a maximum sentence of 15-years for possessing mushrooms and loading a shotgun at Freedom Plaza. Up to 10 years, for the mushrooms.  

Ye slaves who doth endorse thy cagemasters, I pity thee.
  

I believe he will walk and is currently held in custody for the drug charge because he isnt talking to them..... uncooperative.... so the Feds will hold him until the court date.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#30    Yamato

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:22 AM

View Postacidhead, on 18 July 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

I believe he will walk and is currently held in custody for the drug charge because he isnt talking to them..... uncooperative.... so the Feds will hold him until the court date.
I don't share in your optimism.  I have far less faith that the USG won't hold a political prisoner on BS charges like the mixed possession of mushrooms and guns.

He's still at a state cage in Fairfax VA though they're talking about transferring him to a federal cage.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi




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