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"Pure" Capitalism Is Pure Fantasy


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#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:42 PM

Capitalism without government is a fantasy....For the first time in a long time, we can now ally with the fast-growing number of people reaching that same conclusion.

http://rdwolff.com/c...sm-pure-fantasy

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#2    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:56 PM

What planet do you live on?


#3    Yamato

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:58 PM

Now that the Corporatocracy is humming along as popular as ever and the middle class is being eaten alive from both ends of the class-warring spectrum, political rhetoric like this would naturally start creeping in, to the point that we're now denying the existence of the free marketplace.  There are freer places on earth than the US.  We look to Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland and New Zealand among other places as role models.  

The OP is just rhetoric.  There isn't anything that's "pure" as economic or political systems go.  The OP is just focusing on Capitalism because that's what's politically correct to go after these days with our people in such a statist state of mind.  Running to the hypocrites in Washington to make the world a better place is another day in the life of this America.

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#4    spartan max2

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:11 AM

pure capitalism never existed, just like pure freedom dosent exist in a society.

But this should not be used as a excuse to take away free market princples just like pure freedom not exisiting should not be an excuse to take away freedom.

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#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:56 AM

The "excuse" for taking away free markets or pure "freedom" is not for its own sake but to achieve something more important.  As a general rule free markets appear on their own.  Whether or not to allow them all depends on whether or not they help or hurt.  Sometimes they are exploitive of the environment or of labor or of customers (where organizations enforce monopolies) or of public health.  Then free market ideology must bow to the general welfare.

Sometimes they can be organized where there is good competition and quality is high and profits reasonable.  Designing legal structures to encourage this sort of thing is often a better idea than just raw socialism since competition is more efficient than bureaucracy.  Often this competition works even better if there are state-owned enterprises and some state ownership involved when the product is difficult to produce or of limited demand (free markets don't appear on their own).  It's all complicated, needs working out on a case by case basis and even needs to be constantly revisited as conditions evolve.


#6    Yamato

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:15 AM

The air's not pure.  Stop fantasizing that it is, and don't breathe it.   Now, all your problems are solved.

The OP article suggests we push forward into Statism.  I knew this country had lost its mind when Obama voters started defending their President from sanctimonious partisan attacks by stating how Obama (OBushma) policies like TARP have turned a profit.   That's one of the last nails in the coffin when our people actually accept that the federal government is in the business of making profit.   RavenHawk using military return on investment for how he interprets the Constitution is another more recent and even more disturbing example.   And that kind of thinking begs the question.  If turning a profit is what makes us agree with a policy, why doesn't turning a loss make us disagree?   So that's not what they really care about.  They just want to make excuses to agree with anything and/or everything the government does and they'll need a host of different excuses in the process.   When the cracks start to form, the whole bloody thing goes.  I can only hope that the critical mass of our people in the center come to their senses and reject these government-focused blowhards from the left and the right, from the blue and the red, from the democrats and the republicans.

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#7    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:11 AM

Is this guy really a professor and they let him teach people? you will never have a pure any kind of system as long as humans are involved we are imperfect. we at some point in time will screw it up whether there is a government, ruling class, or a king involved or not. heck the greatest minds of the 18th century came up with a form of government that on paper looked pretty good and it took us like 8 maybe 10 years to mess it up. we humans just don't work this way. I've had this discussion before with a friend who is an anarco-capitalist(?) which is basically in favor of non-government capitalism. having the market decided what happens. hours of discussion. he saw only the business side of it and decided it could work. I saw the human element as the fatal flaw. yes we as humans have the same basic needs but we are all wired differently when it comes to how we go about meeting those needs. some people are honest some lie. some are hard workers some not so much. my brother and I are perfect examples of this we grew up in the same house same parents same schools the whole nine yards. we both decided to go to trade school to further our education I worked nights went to school and payed my way through my brother quit his job mooched money off my parent to pay for his schooling. This is in a nutshell is why we don't and never will have a perfect anything be statism, capitalism, communism, feudalism, or theocracy. just give us time we will screw it up.

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#8    Babe Ruth

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

We have already pushed forward into Statism.

I would say we have already pushed forward, or backward as the case may be, into fascism.  The federal government is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street.


#9    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 08 July 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

We have already pushed forward into Statism.

I would say we have already pushed forward, or backward as the case may be, into fascism.  The federal government is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street.

That's right, Babe welcome to the good old United States Inc.

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#10    Rafterman

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:50 PM

Other than the Ferengi, who is favor of "pure" capitalism?

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#11    Babe Ruth

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostRafterman, on 08 July 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Other than the Ferengi, who is favor of "pure" capitalism?

That depends upon how it's defined, and of course how it's practiced in reality.

What we have today is nothing close to pure capitalism, because the government routinely bails out those capitalist entities with political clout who failed in managing their companies.  Corporate socialism = fascism.


#12    Frank Merton

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:22 PM

Sorry folks but the slogans are too much for me.  We may not like it that some big company gets "bailed out" in order to prevent a major shock to the financial system and in the process save a lot of jobs, bit in all that's the wisest way to go.


#13    Yamato

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 09 July 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Sorry folks but the slogans are too much for me.  We may not like it that some big company gets "bailed out" in order to prevent a major shock to the financial system and in the process save a lot of jobs, bit in all that's the wisest way to go.
To the financial system, to the insurance industry, to the defense contractors, to the housing market, to the automakers, to the bondholders, to the other party, to whoever knocks on doors and has money to move around for the bureaucrats to decide what they really think.   The financial system is screwy by the way, it doesn't need saving it needs overhauled.

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#14    Frank Merton

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

We tried overhauling it once.  Thanks, but once was enough.


#15    Babe Ruth

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:02 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 09 July 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Sorry folks but the slogans are too much for me.  We may not like it that some big company gets "bailed out" in order to prevent a major shock to the financial system and in the process save a lot of jobs, bit in all that's the wisest way to go.

Where is the wisdom in that Frank?  Please elaborate.

Our financial system is very much a house of cards, but if it were strong, and if we were not in this crony capitalism/fascism mode we're in, it could withstand some ups and downs.  Who knows, if it were regulated properly, as was the case when Glass Steagall was the law of the land, things might stabilize and trend upwards, as it fairly well did through most of the 20th century.

Honest and fair regulation is good for society.





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